Strong Claims about CCC/CET (1 Viewer)

[bigfatronssba]

Sure the editors of Pravda saw it exactly your way.

Not really, they didn't have freedom of the press in the USSR.

 

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[lordsummerisle]

Look at it from another perspective though, and if not true it's not handy for claims to be repeated is it, furthers the thought there's no smoke without fire and all that and, on a human level, if you've done nowt wrong, you don't want to read claims that you have!

In the real world, it's not worth the bad press to go after repetitions like this really, you'd think. After all, if I claim Simon Gilbert teabags Kevin Maton daily before they have a lunchtime jog around the Swanswell, it's a daft claim from a daft pseudonym. But... if he doesn't do that, it's not helpful if you and everyone else repeats it, so a claim becomes FACT.

The sad thing in all this, regardless of who's right, is the club's affairs have had an impact, on whatever level, on ordinary peoples' lives and jobs and that, to me, is a crying shame.

Simon Gilbert teabags Kevin Maton daily??

That's explosive!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Not really, they didn't have freedom of the press in the USSR.

Didn't allow journalists the freedom to print anything criticising their political leaders?

See what you mean, nothing like this at all.

 

[SimonGilbert]

After all, if I claim Simon Gilbert teabags Kevin Maton daily before they have a lunchtime jog around the Swanswell, it's a daft claim from a daft pseudonym. But... if he doesn't do that, it's not helpful if you and everyone else repeats it, so a claim becomes FACT.

That's outrageous. Everyone knows it's only every OTHER day.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Simon Gilbert teabags Kevin Maton daily??

That's explosive!

Well you were there...

 

[chiefdave]

Look at it from another perspective though, and if not true it's not handy for claims to be repeated is it, furthers the thought there's no smoke without fire and all that and, on a human level, if you've done nowt wrong, you don't want to read claims that you have!

Wouldn't you have to extend that across the board? What about people who are accused of rape or other sexual offences and then found to be completely innocent after weeks or months of the accusations being all over the papers.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Well you were there...

I was just waiting to go for our jog round Swanswell!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wouldn't you have to extend that across the board? What about people who are accused of rape or other sexual offences and then found to be completely innocent after weeks or months of the accusations being all over the papers.

Depends what you report though.

If I call you a rapist, that ain't great.

If I report what's said at your trial for rape, that's a different matter,

 

[duffer]

My sincere hope is that all of this comes out in the tribunal regarding unfair dismissal that I believe is progressing.

I've no issue with Simon here, who is fully entitled to support his current employer, but there's a slightly different take on the saga here...

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/conte...ter-axed-coventry-telegraph-joins-rival-title

Reid's claim is this:

Reid found out that the council were planning to bail out ACL to the tune of £14.4m. He wanted to print the story, but his Editor did a deal of some kind with Martin Reeves (Chief Exec of CCC) to suppress the story.

If you're looking for stuff to support that claim we've got the fact that if the deal was agreed hastily in a secret session of council - not unlike the recent deal with Wasps.

Also, there's the fact that if the deal did get out to the public before the council voted, it's entirely possible SISU would have taken out an injunction against the council to try to prevent it.

We also know that ACL wasn't profitable without CCFC, despite the claims made before and after the bail-out.

At the time of the deal, the CET seemed to be broadly in support of the council, and it was accepted by many (and indeed in the JR) that SISU were probably trying to distress ACL to get their hands on the Ricoh on the cheap. Regardless, that doesn't make CCC's or the CET's actions right if what Reid says is correct - and to my mind, it's entirely plausible that Reid's story here is true.

The CET would not have been popular if they ran Reid's story and subsequently scuppered the bailout, as the odds are that this would have meant having to do a deal with SISU.

On one side, you've got people who think Reid is some kind of SISU puppet, completely disregarding a lot of the stuff he wrote other than the Seppala interview. On that basis they don't even need to see the facts to determine what's happened.

On the other side, you've got the simple fact that CCC and Ann Lucas have been caught in a clear lie now regarding the worth of ACL, and they continue to avoid any questions regarding the deal made with Wasps and how much risk the taxpayer still carries. Reid has also made his accusations public, and presumably is willing to back them up in court and/or at a tribunal.

If you think this matter is black and white, and there's not a least a strong possiblity that what Reid says happened occurred, then I don't think you've really thought this through. An honest journalist might have lost his job here, because he threatened to expose the council to proper scrutiny. That to me would be an absolute scandal, and it merits a proper and full investigation - not some lazy assumptions here based on a cheap prejudice.

 

[duffer]

If they do you must be on the list too for republishing it on an open forum.

How does it go again? Something along the lines of if we sue this journalist for saying something we don't like we'll have to sue you as well. I'd find a good lawyer if I was you.

I'm not clear here, were you behind SISU when they took this line against the Sky Blue Trust with regard to linking to the Conn article critical of our owners?

It's just I'm not sure here whether you're standing up for free speech, or only standing up for the free speech that you agree with.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Didn't allow journalists the freedom to print anything criticising their political leaders?

See what you mean, nothing like this at all.

So in this instance, who hasn't allowed it?

 

[dongonzalos]

Les Reid, Anne Lucas, John Mutton, Joy Sepalla, Tim Fisher, Martin Reeves, Orange Ken and the Hoff should appear on Jeremy Kyle.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm not sure why Reid gets so much stick on here. The only reason I can think of is that he asks uncomfortable questions of the council. If he was exposing stuff about sisu then he would probably still retain his hero status. I still don't quite understand the affiliation that some posters have with CCC. I wonder if they even have a set of songs in support of them?

 

[Sick Boy]

Les Reid, Anne Lucas, John Mutton, Joy Sepalla, Tim Fisher, Martin Reeves, Orange Ken and the Hoff should appear on Jeremy Kyle.

It's no surprise we are in this mess having been associated with these lot in recent years.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I'm not sure why Reid gets so much stick on here. The only reason I can think of is that he asks uncomfortable questions of the council. If he was exposing stuff about sisu then he would probably still retain his hero status. I still don't quite understand the affiliation that some posters have with CCC. I wonder if they even have a set of songs in support of them?

I cant stand the man. I have seen first hand ways in which its been suggested innocent people have done something wrong with a sensationalist headline (which the article then bares no resemblance to the headline).

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I cant stand the man. I have seen first hand ways in which its been suggested innocent people have done something wrong with a sensationalist headline (which the article then bares no resemblance to the headline).

The journalist tends to get little say in the headline.

 

[duffer]

I cant stand the man. I have seen first hand ways in which its been suggested innocent people have done something wrong with a sensationalist headline (which the article then bares no resemblance to the headline).

If you're going to chuck this sort of stuff about, then let's have some examples please.

Of course, even if Reid had written something once that you didn't agree with, it doesn't mean that what he's said about the ACL/CCC/CET saga is a lie.

I'll also make the point (fwiw) that at some newspapers sub-editors write the headlines, not the journalists involved. That's still a common practice at the Guardian for instance, and has been known to cause issues there when the headline doesn't actually do justice to the tone of the piece below.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm not clear here, were you behind SISU when they took this line against the Sky Blue Trust with regard to linking to the Conn article critical of our owners?

It's just I'm not sure here whether you're standing up for free speech, or only standing up for the free speech that you agree with.

I've edited my post for you with the addition of some winking smiling faces. I hope this clear's things up for you.

 

[duffer]

So in this instance, who hasn't allowed it?

According to Reid, it would seem that the Coventry City Council and the editor of the CET prevented him from reporting the intention of Coventry City Council to bail-out ACL to the sum of £14.4m. If you're happy with that, then fair enough, but personally I'd see that as entirely unacceptable.

 

[bigfatronssba]

If you're going to chuck this sort of stuff about, then let's have some examples please.

Of course, even if Reid had written something once that you didn't agree with, it doesn't mean that what he's said about the ACL/CCC/CET saga is a lie.

I'll also make the point (fwiw) that at some newspapers sub-editors write the headlines, not the journalists involved. That's still a common practice at the Guardian for instance, and has been known to cause issues there when the headline doesn't actually do justice to the tone of the piece below.

No because its a family member.

All I will say is a certain Telegraph reporter suggested someone in my family had done something wrong which had not a shred of truth to it. When you know someone you care about is completely innocent yet their name is being turned to mud because a jumped up little journo wants to improve his career it is very hard to stomach. Obviously nothing to do with CCFC, but when its personal like that was it tends to cloud your judgement of someone regarding everything they say.

 

[bigfatronssba]

According to Reid, it would seem that the Coventry City Council and the editor of the CET prevented him from reporting the intention of Coventry City Council to bail-out ACL to the sum of £14.4m. If you're happy with that, then fair enough, but personally I'd see that as entirely unacceptable.

The editor of CET is perfectly entitled prevent him from reporting it, he was his boss. Bosses tell their employees not to do things all the time.

This is exactly the type of thing I'm on about. The mind game tactics that some journalists use. Half the forum is now up in arms thinking that CCC and the CET have done something illegal. Whereas even if these allegations are true, neither CCC nor CET have actually done anything unlawful.

 

[Nick]

Is it not illegal to be paid to mislead and leave certain things it if it is true?

While it may not be true, not very honest is it? I thought people loved their morals and ethics.

 

[duffer]

I've edited my post for you with the addition of some winking smiling faces. I hope this clear's things up for you.

It certainly helps, yes. To me your initial post read an awful lot like, "Nick you ought to be worried about this thread and reporting what Reid has said". Of course, if you disagreed with what Reid has said, then sowing that seed of doubt would have been a handy tool to stifle debate about it on here.

It's good to know that wasn't your intention, because that would be a pretty crappy thing to do, imho.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Is it not illegal to be paid to mislead and leave certain things it if it is true?

While it may not be true, not very honest is it? I thought people loved their morals and ethics.

No and No.

 

[Nick]

It certainly helps, yes. To me your initial post read an awful lot like, "Nick you ought to be worried about this thread and reporting what Reid has said". Of course, if you disagreed with what Reid has said, then sowing that seed of doubt would have been a handy tool to stifle debate about it on here.

It's good to know that wasn't your intention, because that would be a pretty crappy thing to do, imho.

Its ok, keeping an eye on it anyway . my personal thought is surely lr wouldn't be silly enough to throw that out there without anything as it would be inviting all sorts of trouble.

 

[skybluetony176]

It certainly helps, yes. To me your initial post read an awful lot like, "Nick you ought to be worried about this thread and reporting what Reid has said". Of course, if you disagreed with what Reid has said, then sowing that seed of doubt would have been a handy tool to stifle debate about it on here.

It's good to know that wasn't your intention, because that would be a pretty crappy thing to do, imho.

To be honest even without the winking smiling faces I don't know how you would have come to that conclusion. By any chance do you wear a hat fashioned from tin foil to stop the aliens reading your mind?

 

[Moff]

Whereas even if these allegations are true, neither CCC nor CET have actually done anything unlawful.

No its not unlawful to not tell the truth about what a lying piece of shit Ann Lucas is, moraly though its a disgrace.

 

[Nick]

No and No.

Could it not be seen as blackmail or bribery?

 

[duffer]

The editor of CET is perfectly entitled prevent him from reporting it, he was his boss. Bosses tell their employees not to do things all the time.

This is exactly the type of thing I'm on about. The mind game tactics that some journalists use. Half the forum is now up in arms thinking that CCC and the CET have done something illegal. Whereas even if these allegations are true, neither CCC nor CET have actually done anything unlawful.

Actually, it is unlawful if it's cost a bloke his job for it.

And if that's the standard you want from your press and your council, then we differ hugely, because I expect the council to tell the truth, and the local press to hold them to proper scrutiny.

If you're willing to accept less then that's your choice, but I'd say it's a pretty daft one because we've seen some pretty big porkies from the council recently - maybe one day they'll make a poor, unchecked decision that effects you directly and you'll be a bit less happy that no one is paying proper attention to them.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Could it not be seen as blackmail or bribery?

That would be for the editor of the CET to come out and say. If, as alleged, the editor of the CET was happy to not print a certain story then how can that be blackmail or bribery?

 

[Nick]

That would be for the editor of the CET to come out and say. If, as alleged, the editor of the CET was happy to not print a certain story then how can that be blackmail or bribery?

Ah I read did a deal and probably thought the wrong thing to be fair as in money deal, could have come to the wrong conclusion about that.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Actually, it is unlawful if it's cost a bloke his job for it.

And if that's the standard you want from your press and your council, then we differ hugely, because I expect the council to tell the truth, and the local press to hold them to proper scrutiny.

If you're willing to accept less then that's your choice, but I'd say it's a pretty daft one because we've seen some pretty big porkies from the council recently - maybe one day they'll make a poor, unchecked decision that effects you directly and you'll be a bit less happy that no one is paying proper attention to them.

I'm just talking about the law mate. I don't know what Les Reid lost his job for, but if he disobeyed his superiors instructions then that would be a sackable offence in most organisations.

 

[Nick]

Actually, it is unlawful if it's cost a bloke his job for it.

And if that's the standard you want from your press and your council, then we differ hugely, because I expect the council to tell the truth, and the local press to hold them to proper scrutiny.

If you're willing to accept less then that's your choice, but I'd say it's a pretty daft one because we've seen some pretty big porkies from the council recently - maybe one day they'll make a poor, unchecked decision that effects you directly and you'll be a bit less happy that no one is paying proper attention to them.

As a side note, Simon has been hammering the council lately on other things. I saw it randomly online on a tweet with a wasps dig to maton.

I agree, I said at the time something was fishy about lr going quiet, the editor going, lr suddenly back, lr resigns.

 

[Nick]

I'm just talking about the law mate. I don't know what Les Reid lost his job for, but if he disobeyed his superiors instructions then that would be a sackable offence in most organisations.

He resigned though didn't he after all charges or whatever they were, were dropped? Surely can't have done that much wrong, else he would be fired?

 

[duffer]

To be honest even without the winking smiling faces I don't know how you would have come to that conclusion. By any chance do you wear a hat fashioned from tin foil to stop the aliens reading your mind?

I'm guessing you struggle to understand that you're not actually being very funny when you come out with this kind of bollocks, no?

When peoples eyes glaze over when you're telling another hilarious anecdote (maybe about someone wearing a tin-foil hat, or being sued for something), there's a clue there that you are probably missing. Jokes never work when you need to explain them, you know.