Supporters Club / Trust (1 Viewer)

"We would look to hold the owners and board accountable, whoever they are and ensure that the fans voice is heard."


Good luck with the venture, but without investment, how do you propose to achieve the part I have quoted above?

What makes you think SISU would even consider this? They've never cared about the fans before.

No point to be honest you only get told what the telegraph does so it won't change anything,to be honest most people are pissed off but they know it doesnt matter what fans do while sisu are here,supporters trust or whatever you call it is just a few people trying to make a name for themselves and kissing arse to get noticed,it hasnt worked in the last eight years having a trust and i can assure you it won't work now.

but if the 9,000 season ticket holders joined it maybe just maybe people would listen....

ashbyjan said:

Holding someone accountable has nothing to do with money it has to do with influence - if as a group we are seen as a body representing a significant number of City fans then we can hold them accountable for their words, promises, actions and plans. United we can make a difference, as a mass of disperate individuals we will continue to be ignored by past, present and future owners.

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Of course it is to do with money because if you don't have investment then you have no rights to what you want. You can request that they are accountable to you, but they have no reason to conform unless they want to. You say you can make a difference but what difference have you made to SISU when we are a one united voice that we don't want them and want better information? You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can change this.

How would SISU be held accountable? They can do what they want as they own the club, they dont need to answer to the fans and wouldnt.

rob9872 said:

Of course it is to do with money because if you don't have investment then you have no rights to what you want. You can request that they are accountable to you, but they have no reason to conform unless they want to. You say you can make a difference but what difference have you made to SISU when we are a one united voice that we don't want them and want better information? You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can change this.

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I agree rob,money will always prevail if you have money u have people that will listen,the thing is sisu aren't interested in the fans so they don't care what we think,

Please stop these embarrassing efforts to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic. Show your support by paying your money and turning up and leave it at that. No one has a right over influencing what the owners do with the club other than that. These efforts by self-appointed representatives of no one but themselves are a waste of time and effort, if you have the energy and time to make a difference to something go and support a charity or other good cause, rather than the wealthy young men who kick a football around for a living at CV6. It's only a bloody game aft all.

If you were to brand this simply as a new CCFC Supporters' Club, I think you would have a lot more joy. Already people are assuming that SISU are your main agenda-when SOC splintered basically for that reason. The only active supporters club is CCLSC. As Cov doesn't have its own one, and surely it should do, then I think that should be your group's focus-give Coventry an active, inclusive CCFC supporters' club.

The Sky Blue Trust is defunct and Freehold St no longer serves the purpose.

I think you should choose your words more carefully if you wish to garner support.
If someone is to be held accountable to you then that implies you have some authority over them. CCFC is a business first and foremost not a private club made up of members.
I see no harm in a supporters group per-say but you talk of it as being an influential body rather than a conduit of supporters feelings.
Set up a supporters club with members, issue weekly news bulletins, fliers and request feedback from supporters. Then feed that unconditionally to CCFC.

However I can't see what you would hope to achieve in the end. Private investors in football clubs will do as they always have done and follow their own decision making and not from unquantifiable and mostly unqualified folks from some self appointed supporters groups.

Why don't you ask if CCFC would like to support a 'supporters group' and what they would offer you for your efforts in working with them and not against them? The conduit can go both ways and some ground rules could be established with the club?
That would be my first port of call asbyjan.

Jan quite simply FUCK THE BETTERMENT OF THE CLUB BOLLOCKS. Why cant you start a supporters club that does not intefere with the board?

Donnie Brasco said:

Jan quite simply FUCK THE BETTERMENT OF THE CLUB BOLLOCKS. Why cant you start a supporters club that does not intefere with the board?

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It's because Jan clearly has a boyhood dream of being on the board,maybe he should start supporting the team away from home and see what home and away fans think rather than sit on a computer

What happened to the Sky Blue Trust? Did that just wither and die? If so, why would this new group be any different.

Otherwise, could the SBT be resuscitated?

ashbyjan said:

Do you want to have a say in how our club is run moving forward?

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NO I would however, like to join a supporters group that is a group of like minded people that want to support our club instead of attempting to help run it.

last one didnt work,so lets try another one

right out of the "CCFC school of picking managers" this one..

That's why I buy the telegraph,they no what there is to know you won't find out anything else

It seems to me people are taking issue with the figure heads of the proposed Trust rather than the concept itself.

Is this an accurate assessment?

ashbyjan said:

This venture has nothing to do with SISU or Hoffman or protests or anything like that - it is meant as a supporters club/trust designed to offer two way communication to the club, further the community activity of the club, bring to the attention of the club any supporters issues. It is not about overthrowing regimes, telling the club how to run things, buying the club etc etc. It is mainly about trying to address the main issue many people have with club and have had for years - communication, communication from the club to supporters and vice versa.

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Is this not what I just advised? You say one thing with such phrases as 'accountability' then when questioned you retort with a different concept? Which is it?

Go talk with the club about your idea and see if they would like to participate in such a scheme? Opening up conduits between club and fans is a good thing but must be done properly. Your initial idea smacked of protest group rather than a supporters group. Nothing wrong with a supporters group protesting on behalf of the fans but ground rules must first be established with the club.

Do this and then they may even allow you more 'access' to canvas opinion around the Ricoh on Saturday afternoons, attend supporters meetings with the club and have your chair at that table. Seek permission to issue newsletters to supporters, establish a web site and the list goes on...
Give yourselves the opportunity to be in the 'circle' of communication with the clubs day to day affairs (within reason of course).
This would be helpful to the club and fans establishing a two way link.

First up would be a meeting with Mr Fisher. Be prepared though for lots of work if you truly want to pursue this idea.

Now if after thinking about that you believe it's not what you are aiming for then anything else such as previous spurious groups you have tried would be pointless.

I don't know why there is such animosity towards a fairly innocent suggestion.

A link between supporters and the board is not a bad idea in concept. Will be a real challenge with this board but if someone wants to do it and can gain some form of representation why not. Ideas can be generated from this site and other feedback methods about marketing and practical ideas to make the viewing experience better.

Some comments on here are rather childish and destructive but this is always what you get when things like this are proposed . Some companies used to get track workers and other blue collar reps to be on the BOD in an unofficial capacity and they were subjected to the same nonsense. Personally I could not stand for the negativity but I think its a fair call.

Good. Then use some of the suggestions I gave you. Form a supporters group. Ask them for the ground rules under which they will communicate to you on what level of understanding. In other words how much they will tell you. Without this they could simply blank you out when ever. If they really want it they will establish how far they are willing to communicate with you and where they won't i.e. finances, private take over talks etc.

Good luck but not so sure it's worth your while as long as SISU remain here? Wait for new ownership maybe?

What benefits comes from being 'legalised' Jan? It seems you already have access to the club.

Jan only has access on matchday and that's thru the gate with his ticket,if any wants to talk to fisher just phone the club he will meet you

canleykid said:

Jan only has access on matchday and that's thru the gate with his ticket,if any wants to talk to fisher just phone the club he will meet you

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So surely Tim Fisher deserves credit for this?

ashbyjan said:

It's the legalized side of a trust which is a legal entity. Whilst its not strictly necessary to be a trust it does have advantages - if you porkmeister if anyone else wants to see what these are I would steer you towards the supporters direct website where they explain it all in more detail than I can here.

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Thanks Jan. Still struggling to see the tangible benefits of being legal but here is the gumf from the website:

Why form a Trust? How does it differ from an Independent Supporters' Assocation or supporters' club?
We'd categorise the main difference between a Trust and an ISA as being twofold - ‘attitudinal' and ‘organisational'.

The organisational one is easy: It's our belief that an Industrial and Provident Society (IPS) offers the best way forward for supporters' groups as its legal assets can be owned 'corporately' in a group rather than being vested in individuals. Members also get the benefit of limited liability (and so do the elected officers in most cases) - members are only liable for £1 if anything goes wrong - for example, if the Trust is sued.

As a corporate body, the full force of the law can be brought to bear on anyone who misappropriates the funds. It's also democratic and not-for-profit and states clearly and boldly that a key aim is the securing of representation and strengthening the links between club and community. It's got the 'big idea' that helps get an organisation off the ground - the idea at the heart is "why always be criticising, when we can be running and participating - we think we can bring huge benefits to the club, so give us a chance - to own the club we love (or a part of it)".

As an IPS can own shares or property, it is a vehicle that can ultimately own the club, and at the very least, own a significant shareholding. It can sign contracts with the club for shares received and set the terms of the deal. An ISA (Independent Supporters Association), supporters club or other supporters' group which is unincorporated is on much shakier ground in that regard. So an IPS is robust and can grow with you. The powers exist to employ staff, contract pensions and manage people within a democratic structure. There are businesses that are IPSs that are much bigger than supporters' trusts and clubs. The Co-op Group for example has a turnover of approximately £9 billion each year.

Supporters at a number of clubs have been able to take advantage of their situation by being an IPS. An ISA would be equally concerned about the situation at a club in serious financial trouble, but might struggle to actually buy the club - so just who would buy it exactly? They can raised money and campaign, they want to secure the future of the club, but would they see it as something they could and should do? That's not to disparage those sorts of groups, just to indicate that instead of it being something they might do, it's something a Trust is explicitly there to do.

Finally, the people who get involved in a trust as members know that their money is protected; it can't be spent on anything other than what the constitution says, and anyone who does this can be taken to court.

However, an ISA could still be a trust in the sense that it could convert to be an IPS and want a place on the board - this is where the attitudinal side comes in; it's about putting a professional face to the club and saying 'we're capable, skilled people with something to offer the club.' That doesn't mean that you're unable to criticise or beholden to the club - as a democratic organisation, the members determine your policy and stance towards the club.

An IPS imposes certain disciplines on a group that we think can only be a good thing - democracy, accountability and transparency, and this can only reinforce the points you make. Basically, it comes down to what you want a body to do. In our view, an ISA, whilst a perfectly legitimate form of organisation, often becomes identified with a small band of individuals and might always seems to be criticising (even if it isn't in reality!). It is also limited in how it can grow, and how secure that growth is. A trust, constituted as an IPS stays in existence until its members decide to dissolve it, and so they have greater ability to stay around. Often, ISA's go into a lull when key individuals become inactive. All these are of course applicable to a trust, but the disciplines we mention above make it more likely that weaknesses are identified and rectified. For starters, the act of becoming an IPS is a collaborative effort so you need a good team from the off.

• Supporters Direct will influence policy and campaign on your behalf to ensure change that promotes and encourages:
  • supporter representation
  • community ownership
  • Spectator sports clubs that protect and enhance their social value
  • Better regulation to help achieve the above aims
• Supporters Direct will provide you with the tools you need to run an effective supporters' trust

And the more trusts that join, the more we can negotiate deals for member trusts which are better value than individual trusts acting alone can get. We can also commission specialist guidance on issues like director’s responsibilities, or the new Companies Act, and then make it available to trusts free of charge.