Talksport (8 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Why let bullies win? The council has a duty for the 388,000 people in cov that doesn't support the club to ensure TAX payers money is safe.

If the club was so well supported then the Ricoh would be full on every match.

But according to you ACL make loads of money anyway so the money is safe. £240,000 pure profit every concert? We should all get a rebate!!

 

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[Official Away Travel]

Its not really bullying its what they thinks right even 650k is massively over priced ! most championship teams pay 270k... we are not a championship team, 300k would possibly be over the top but fair for all partys!

ACL only took the loan out cus CCFC couldn't afford to pay its way when the Ricoh was being built.

Does you bank ask you what you would like to pay?

 

[Official Away Travel]

Well one person hasn't that's for sure. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

And you have?

 

[Grendel]

ACL only took the loan out cus CCFC couldn't afford to pay its way when the Ricoh was being built.

Does you bank ask you what you would like to pay?

Just out of interest do you support the football club?

 

[ccfclinney]

Why let bullies win? The council has a duty for the 388,000 people in cov that doesn't support the club to ensure TAX payers money is safe.

If the club was so well supported then the Ricoh would be full on every match.

All fans want to see success.. success is by buying good players that win matches, if the team is winning the fans will go...
Why acl is ripping CCFC off the owners cant invest in players that will win matches ... its a vicious circle. invest in the team get the fans.. drop the rent .. more investment in the team .. more fans

 

[Covstu]

Its not really bullying its what they thinks right even 650k is massively over priced ! most championship teams pay 270k... we are not a championship team, 300k would possibly be over the top but fair for all partys!

But a contract is a contract plus most other clubs have some stake in their stadium so doesn't have to pay nowhere near as much. I think to compare our ground to other teams in league one is silly, most of em at either small or shit holes which doesn't compare to the Ricoh.

 

[ccfclinney]

But a contract is a contract plus most other clubs have some stake in their stadium so doesn't have to pay nowhere near as much. I think to compare our ground to other teams in league one is silly, most of em at either small or shit holes which doesn't compare to the Ricoh.

i didnt compare our ground to league one ... i said championship teams pay 270k... therefore comparing it to other championship grounds.

 

[chiefdave]

There is 12,000 people watching the Florence concert - that's more than the bloody match!!!

They haven't done a good job of getting acts like that into the jaguar Hall. To be fair tho they may not want them, live music is not a big money spinner for venues and I can easily see that they may look more to other areas of business (tho a quick look on the Ricoh website for forthcoming events doesn't give the impression of many bookings).

For larger shows (the type that would be in the Jag or Ricoh) it is likely that the bands promoter is hiring the venue for a flat fee, unless the hire fee is huge (which would be hard to believe as acts would go elsewhere) there won't be a huge profit. Gig fees for acts like Muse and Springsteen will easily be 7 figures and production costs have to be paid out a potential ticket revenue of around £2m. As Compass have the contract I would assume they get the revenue from drinks etc so where are ACL taking a 7 figure sum from 1 show?

The successful venues such as O2 academies, the O2 arena make their money as the venue owners, band promoters and ticket agencies are all part of the same umbrella company (all sorts of tax dodges where you're essentially hiring the venue off yourself and paying yourself for services to write down all profit). The Ricoh doesn't benefit from that and it's hard to see where they would generate a sustained level of income with the number of music events they are having.

Also worth bearing in mind that not being a football ground is unlikely to lead to a rise in the number of stadium shows. There's no reason shows couldn't be held May till September at the moment, it's happened at other football grounds. The fact is most acts of that size tour June till August as that's the European festival season.

 

[lordsummerisle]

i didnt compare our ground to league one ... i said championship teams pay 270k... therefore comparing it to other championship grounds.

And most other championship grounds don't get the other income from concerts, Olympics and conferences that is pouring in apparently due to some on here.

Do ACL wipe their arses with the money like Liam Ridgewell because there is so much of it going around?

 

[Grendel]

They haven't done a good job of getting acts like that into the jaguar Hall. To be fair tho they may not want them, live music is not a big money spinner for venues and I can easily see that they may look more to other areas of business (tho a quick look on the Ricoh website for forthcoming events doesn't give the impression of many bookings).

For larger shows (the type that would be in the Jag or Ricoh) it is likely that the bands promoter is hiring the venue for a flat fee, unless the hire fee is huge (which would be hard to believe as acts would go elsewhere) there won't be a huge profit. Gig fees for acts like Muse and Springsteen will easily be 7 figures and production costs have to be paid out a potential ticket revenue of around £2m. As Compass have the contract I would assume they get the revenue from drinks etc so where are ACL taking a 7 figure sum from 1 show?

The successful venues such as O2 academies, the O2 arena make their money as the venue owners, band promoters and ticket agencies are all part of the same umbrella company (all sorts of tax dodges where you're essentially hiring the venue off yourself and paying yourself for services to write down all profit). The Ricoh doesn't benefit from that and it's hard to see where they would generate a sustained level of income with the number of music events they are having.

Also worth bearing in mind that not being a football ground is unlikely to lead to a rise in the number of stadium shows. There's no reason shows couldn't be held May till September at the moment, it's happened at other football grounds. The fact is most acts of that size tour June till August as that's the European festival season.

At last someone talking sense.

 

[sw88]

Weren't the latest figures that the football club only generated 17% of ACL's income? They're hardly going to go bust if they lost that income stream imo!

Yes they'll be £1m+ out of pocket if we went busy but im sure they'd make that up with other things.

Also im sure they could find things to make up for the time made available should the worst happen and we no longer play there.

The only ones to come out of all this in the shit is SISU and consequently CCFC

 

[ccfclinney]

And most other championship grounds don't get the other income from concerts, Olympics and conferences that is pouring in apparently due to some on here.

Do ACL wipe their arses with the money like Liam Ridgewell because there is so much of it going around?

exactly my point.. we dont get any food sales drink sales car parking sales!
why should the club pay over 100k a month! just to play football there ! its not good enough especially when a season dont even last a year.

 

[Official Away Travel]

They haven't done a good job of getting acts like that into the jaguar Hall. To be fair tho they may not want them, live music is not a big money spinner for venues and I can easily see that they may look more to other areas of business (tho a quick look on the Ricoh website for forthcoming events doesn't give the impression of many bookings).

For larger shows (the type that would be in the Jag or Ricoh) it is likely that the bands promoter is hiring the venue for a flat fee, unless the hire fee is huge (which would be hard to believe as acts would go elsewhere) there won't be a huge profit. Gig fees for acts like Muse and Springsteen will easily be 7 figures and production costs have to be paid out a potential ticket revenue of around £2m. As Compass have the contract I would assume they get the revenue from drinks etc so where are ACL taking a 7 figure sum from 1 show?

The successful venues such as O2 academies, the O2 arena make their money as the venue owners, band promoters and ticket agencies are all part of the same umbrella company (all sorts of tax dodges where you're essentially hiring the venue off yourself and paying yourself for services to write down all profit). The Ricoh doesn't benefit from that and it's hard to see where they would generate a sustained level of income with the number of music events they are having.

Also worth bearing in mind that not being a football ground is unlikely to lead to a rise in the number of stadium shows. There's no reason shows couldn't be held May till September at the moment, it's happened at other football grounds. The fact is most acts of that size tour June till August as that's the European festival season.

Some shows are trade or private conferences so they don't go on the website.

Secondly ACL are in joint venture with Compass. Compass are backing ACL all the way. They just spent million on new hotel rooms - a company really struggling

 

[lordsummerisle]

Weren't the latest figures that the football club only generated 17% of ACL's income? They're hardly going to go bust if they lost that income stream imo!

Yes they'll be £1m+ out of pocket if we went busy but im sure they'd make that up with other things.

Also im sure they could find things to make up for the time made available should the worst happen and we no longer play there.

The only ones to come out of all this in the shit is SISU and consequently CCFC

Take 17% income off the company i work for and would soon go bust, as would most.

 

[Official Away Travel]

exactly my point.. we dont get any food sales drink sales car parking sales!
why should the club pay over 100k a month! just to play football there ! its not good enough especially when a season dont even last a year.

Car parking, advertising and hospitality is sold onto to CCFC to make a profit. The rent they pay also includes all the costs - stewarding, power, heating for the pitch, a new pitch every season, the grounds men, lighting, traffic management, police cover to name a few

 

[chiefdave]

Some shows are trade or private conferences so they don't go on the website.

Secondly ACL are in joint venture with Compass. Compass are backing ACL all the way. They just spent million on new hotel rooms - a company really struggling

not a good idea to not mention them on the website even if they are private. makes it look like a struggling venue that can't attract custom.

interesting about compass, so from that the income streams Fisher is talking about the club not getting are actually, in a roundabout way, going in ACLs pocket.

 

[Official Away Travel]

Take 17% income off the company i work for and would soon go bust, as would most.

That's income - it's all about the profit. There is no profit in football

 

[chiefdave]

The rent they pay also includes all the costs - stewarding, power, heating for the pitch, a new pitch every season, the grounds men, lighting, traffic management, police cover to name a few

Out of interest if CCFC is paying for the pitch, groundstaff etc do they get a cut when the venue is used for Rugby, Olympics etc?

 

[Official Away Travel]

not a good idea to not mention them on the website even if they are private. makes it look like a struggling venue that can't attract custom.

interesting about compass, so from that the income streams Fisher is talking about the club not getting are actually, in a roundabout way, going in ACLs pocket.

Why would a company like for example Tesco or ford want it publicly known they are having a management conference or a new product launch? I dnt think so.

 

[lordsummerisle]

That's income - it's all about the profit. There is no profit in football

If a company makes 10% profit, on 100% of income, how much profit will it make on 83% of income?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Why would a company like for example Tesco or ford want it publicly known they are having a management conference or a new product launch? I dnt think so.

If having a new product launch, would have thought that publicity was pretty much essential.

I really hope that you don't genuinely work for ACL, but if you do would maybe explain a few things.

 

[chiefdave]

If ACL making so much money from gigs, Olympics and conferences that it doesn't need the City money then why the desperation?

nail firmly hit on the head there, if the picture Ricoh2012 is painting is correct (and I'm assuming he works there or has access to inside information so will assume he is correct) then to be frank ACL could drop the rent to next to nothing and still be rolling in money. if they genuinely are doing as well as is being stated yet still want to charge CCFC a rent which, whatever you think of SISU, is hugely unaffordable then they are the ones we should be pointing the finger at.

I imagine Ricoh are locked into a contract with ACL anyway, so Ricoh are not going anywhere. Unless that is Ricoh does a CCFC/Sisu and decides that contracts aren't really that important.

Ricoh could always refuse to make future payments but I would expect there to be things written into the contract regarding the football club still being there. Would not be surprised at all if the clubs relegation has triggered a drop in the income from naming rights automatically.

 

[Official Away Travel]

If having a new product launch, would have thought that publicity was pretty much essential.

I really hope that you don't genuinely work for ACL, but if you do would maybe explain a few things.

Even if its top secret launch - or a company going over its plans for it future, it's rivals would love to know that!!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Even if its top secret launch - or a company going over its plans for it future, it's rivals would love to know that!!

Not much of a launch if it's top secret is it!

 

[LastGarrison]

Why should ACL drop the rent? Why should they take the hit for SISU's naivety and incompetence?

SISU agreed to pay the fees and clearly didn't bother to agree any contingency plans for if we didn't get promoted (nevermind relegated!!) and that is just bad business.

I am sure the money that SISU owes has already been budgeted to be spent elsewhere by ACL so why should they have to re-juggle their books because the fuckwits signed a contract with such utter short sightedness it beggars belief.

Fuck SISU.

 

[Perryccfc]

I think what people need to remember is that SISU are fantastically successful hedge fund. They know exactly what they are doing. They are squeezing the life out of acl. And they will continue to do so. They are ruthless. They're very very clever business people and they know what they're doing with regards to making money, sadly, not so bothered about the footballing side

 

[mattylad]

They haven't done a good job of getting acts like that into the jaguar Hall. To be fair tho they may not want them, live music is not a big money spinner for venues and I can easily see that they may look more to other areas of business (tho a quick look on the Ricoh website for forthcoming events doesn't give the impression of many bookings).

For larger shows (the type that would be in the Jag or Ricoh) it is likely that the bands promoter is hiring the venue for a flat fee, unless the hire fee is huge (which would be hard to believe as acts would go elsewhere) there won't be a huge profit. Gig fees for acts like Muse and Springsteen will easily be 7 figures and production costs have to be paid out a potential ticket revenue of around £2m. As Compass have the contract I would assume they get the revenue from drinks etc so where are ACL taking a 7 figure sum from 1 show?

The successful venues such as O2 academies, the O2 arena make their money as the venue owners, band promoters and ticket agencies are all part of the same umbrella company (all sorts of tax dodges where you're essentially hiring the venue off yourself and paying yourself for services to write down all profit). The Ricoh doesn't benefit from that and it's hard to see where they would generate a sustained level of income with the number of music events they are having.
T
Also worth bearing in mind that not being a football ground is unlikely to lead to a rise in the number of stadium shows. There's no reason shows couldn't be held May till September at the moment, it's happened at other football grounds. The fact is most acts of that size tour June till August as that's the European festival season.

I am sure I was told that the promotions team behind Kings of Leon paid a flat fee of £600,000 for the use of the Ricoh and then all takings go back to the promotion company who the pay a percentage of that to the band. The bands percentage is higher the more succesful the ticket sales.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Bon joviconcert

yes but at the minute they would also have to have one of these outside every 2 months i cant see that can you ? 48000 people going to a concert every 2 months unless there is some very big names

Bon Jovie were reported as being paid 1million for the concert at the Richo don't take rocket scientist to work out what was left over to pay stewards,caterers,police etc
ACL would have have 12/14 big name concerts to cover the loss of £1.6 million we owe them:slap:

 

[Bluegloucester]

I think what people need to remember is that SISU are fantastically successful hedge fund. They know exactly what they are doing. They are squeezing the life out of acl. And they will continue to do so. They are ruthless. They're very very clever business people and they know what they're doing with regards to making money, sadly, not so bothered about the footballing side

What total crap, check their management company. They are losing money and don't even cover their costs. Yeah, they are really successful!

 

[lordsummerisle]

ACL would have have 12/14 big name concerts to cover the loss of £1.6 million we owe them:slap:

Really?

Who would they be? When would they be?

 

[stupot07]

Why let bullies win? The council has a duty for the 388,000 people in cov that doesn't support the club to ensure TAX payers money is safe.

If the club was so well supported then the Ricoh would be full on every match.

Theres actually only 316k in Coventry, are you a cov fan?

 

[chiefdave]

I am sure I was told that the promotions team behind Kings of Leon paid a flat fee of £600,000 for the use of the Ricoh and then all takings go back to the promotion company who the pay a percentage of that to the band. The bands percentage is higher the more succesful the ticket sales.

Most acts will have a flat fee (and a very high one at that) and then a % if any profit made, that % is likely to be 80% as a minim so you can see if the show does make a lot of profit it's the artist that benefits. The promoter makes their money as a % cut of what the artist makes also through affiliations with ticketing companies (in essence they're the ones getting all those fees you pay when you book).

A flat fee is most likely in terms of venue hire for these type of shows but that won't be clear profit as the venue will have associated costs with putting the event on the same as CCFC does with putting a football match on.

I might ask around tomorrow when I get to work to see if anyone here has used the Ricoh for a show and see if they have any info that might be of interest. Doubt it tho, the music business is a lot less exciting than people think!

 

[stupot07]

But a contract is a contract plus most other clubs have some stake in their stadium so doesn't have to pay nowhere near as much. I think to compare our ground to other teams in league one is silly, most of em at either small or shit holes which doesn't compare to the Ricoh.

But even compared to championship clubs - Ipswich pay £100k the average is £270k we pay £1.28m.

 

[wingy]

Most acts will have a flat fee (and a very high one at that) and then a % if any profit made, that % is likely to be 80% as a minim so you can see if the show does make a lot of profit it's the artist that benefits. The promoter makes their money as a % cut of what the artist makes also through affiliations with ticketing companies (in essence they're the ones getting all those fees you pay when you book).

A flat fee is most likely in terms of venue hire for these type of shows but that won't be clear profit as the venue will have associated costs with putting the event on the same as CCFC does with putting a football match on.

I might ask around tomorrow when I get to work to see if anyone here has used the Ricoh for a show and see if they have any info that might be of interest. Doubt it tho, the music business is a lot less exciting than people think!

Springstien and Muse should generate circa £7M. in tickets and side sales ,what % do you think ACL will share with compass?

 

[chiefdave]

For the 2 I would take a stab in the dark that ACL will get around £1m. Out of that they will need to pay all the costs of staffing etc, no idea how much that would be as that's not my area but if you work out what CCFC are paying per match and on the basis that 4 times as many people equals 4 times the staff you probably wouldn't be too far out.

I was under the impression that Compass got all the money for catering and whatever else they provide but Ricoh2012 has said that Compass and ACL are a joint venture, I'm sure he must mean just on the Ricoh as Compass are a big company but even if ACL get back a % then that's something.