The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

djr8369 · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
There is no core point. You claim bias when actually it’s one bloke whose asked an audience question 3 times in the programmes history.

The panel should be marginally in favour of leaving the EU over a period of time - it isn’t

The notion this programme has since 2016 tried to adopt a UKIP agenda is hilarious

Why did you make a false claim you had to dribble and backtrack on out of interest?

My claim was that UKIP councillors have been featured in the audience several times. I have shown this to be true and admitted that it was one guy 4 times and another guy twice rather than several individuals. My core point is correct - that UKIP councillors have been prominently featured members of the audience.

I didn’t claim the program is adopting a UKIP agenda or mention the weighting of the panel.

You are desperately focusing on semantics because my core point is correct.

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Grendel · May 27, 2019

djr8369 said:
My claim was that UKIP councillors have been featured in the audience several times. I have shown this to be true and admitted that it was one guy 4 times and another guy twice rather than several individuals. My core point is correct - that UKIP councillors have been prominently featured members of the audience.

I didn’t claim the program is adopting a UKIP agenda or mention the weighting of the panel.

You are desperately focusing on semantics because my core point is correct.

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There is no core point at all - to put it kindly you got a bit excited and then realised you’d embarrassed yourself on a public forum with a plethora of hyperbole

I then quote some research that backs Evo 100% and you throw out some tiresome right wing bias (which is odd as whenever left wing bias is accused there is a storm of protest) and then that’s a conspiracy as well

It’s all a bit tin foil hat and it doesn’t seem to be convincing anyone else but possibly Mucca who I suspect went to the same school of dumbed down education as you

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 27, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
Lol. Adding the individual % swings to get a total % swing.

So, we should only look at individual swings in isolation to get the picture should we? OK, I choose to look at UKIP.

Vehemently pro-Brexit, their share of the vote went down by 24.3% and they lost 24 seats (that's almost a third of all available seats). This therefore quite clearly shows that there is no desire for Brexit at all.

Or is that bollocks and you need to look at the bigger overall picture?

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
What does he do?

You must know as you say there they are impartial - that’s a big claim

If it was me I’d do a hell of of a lot of research as of know their background would be scrutinised

It took me 2 seconds on LinkedIn so can you share the research?

You’ve made an argument on a comprehensive, Government paper based off the back of a 2 second LinkedIn search?

Pick out something in the paper what you don’t agree with, and have evidence to the contrary and then we can discuss it in good faith.

Grendel · May 27, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
You’ve made an argument on a comprehensive, Government paper based off the back of a 2 second LinkedIn search?

Pick out something in the paper what you don’t agree with, and have evidence to the contrary and then we can discuss it in good faith.

No you said he was impartial

Justify or retract

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
It’s all a bit tin foil hat and it doesn’t seem to be convincing anyone else but possibly Mucca who I suspect went to the same school of dumbed down education as you

This made me laugh.

The same University taught me to refute arguments based off quick 2 second LinkedIn searches.

Perhaps we’re more alike than you think?

djr8369 · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
There is no core point at all - to put it kindly you got a bit excited and then realised you’d embarrassed yourself on a public forum with a plethora of hyperbole

I then quote some research that backs Evo 100% and you throw out some tiresome right wing bias (which is odd as whenever left wing bias is accused there is a storm of protest) and then that’s a conspiracy as well

It’s all a bit tin foil hat and it doesn’t seem to be convincing anyone else but possibly Mucca who I suspect went to the same school of dumbed down education as you

My core point was that on several occasions a UKIP councillor has been a prominently featured member of the audience. I have shown this to be correct so you’ve focussed whether it was several people or one person several times.

I then pointed out your source was questionable which it is. Spiked was bought by the Koch brothers and the IEA is a think tank used to spread economically liberal ideas. I accepted that the numbers cited in the report may however be correct.

I then pointed out how you sharing that report is wonderful example of how right wing and economically liberal Americans are funding the majority of the pro Brexit discourse. None of that is a “conspiracy”. It’s factual.

I find it hard to believe American neo-liberals are funding the pro Brexit discourse out of good will or have the interests of the British people at heart. They’re doing it for their own ends and their free market ideology will make circumstances worse for all of us.

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Grendel · May 27, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
This made me laugh.

The same University taught me to refute arguments based off quick 2 second LinkedIn searches.

Perhaps we’re more alike than you think?

Well it seems those two seconds are two seconds more than you’ve actually done to prove this is impartial - which was kind of my point

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
No you said he was impartial

Justify or retract

It’s a Government paper, not an opinion piece in a newspaper.

Gov.uk isn’t known for peddling propaganda.

Grendel · May 27, 2019

djr8369 said:
Question Time audience is full of UKIP candidates who are given a chance to speak and then shared by their social media teams.

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Core point number one if “full of UKIP candidates”

No proof

Grendel · May 27, 2019

djr8369 said:
Yes. Several times UKIP councillors have managed to get a question from the audience

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Well three times

djr8369 · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
Core point number one if “full of UKIP candidates”

No proof

Clearly an exaggeration which I then turned into a specific claim which I’ve proven.

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djr8369 · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
Well three times

It was six times I think. One guy four times and another guy twice.

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Grendel · May 27, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
It’s a Government paper, not an opinion piece in a newspaper.

Gov.uk isn’t known for peddling propaganda.

No they just spend £9 million of taxpayers money on scare tactics and send them to every household in the country

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
Well it seems those two seconds are two seconds more than you’ve actually done to prove this is impartial - which was kind of my point

Grendel said:
What does he do?

You must know as you say there they are impartial - that’s a big claim

If it was me I’d do a hell of of a lot of research as of know their background would be scrutinised

It took me 2 seconds on LinkedIn so can you share the research?

If you’d opened the report, you’d find it was from 2013. Before the referendum was even announced or even Government policy. This is an analysis of the economic impact of our EU membership back up by empirical evidence. Disagree? Fine, let’s discuss it.

The findings were impartial in the context that the debate on our membership of the EU hadn’t really been formalised so there wasn’t really a political angle to it.

If you were that detailed, you’d have spotted that right away. Instead of looking on LinkedIn, maybe give the report a read.

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
No they just spend £9 million of taxpayers money on scare tactics and send them to every household in the country

If free trade agreements aren’t agreed sharpish then ‘Project Fear’ will very much become ‘Project Reality’ and I think you’d agree with that.

Grendel · May 27, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
If you’d opened the report, you’d find it was from 2013. Before the referendum was even announced or even Government policy. This is an analysis of the economic impact of our EU membership back up by empirical evidence. Disagree? Fine, let’s discuss it.

The findings were impartial in the context that the debate on our membership of the EU hadn’t really been formalised so there wasn’t really a political angle to it.

If you were that detailed, you’d have spotted that right away. Instead of looking on LinkedIn, maybe give the report a read.

It was you who said the authors were impartial - at that point I got bored as it’s obvious this is not the case. Politicians have been dribbling in the Euro gravy train for decades so the notion this report is “empirical evidence” is somewhat laughable. The blood stained Blair creature (know him? Loves the EU) has empirical evidence there was weapons of mass destruction when actually there were no such thing.

Bet you used this in your essay didn’t you?

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
It was you who said the authors were impartial - at that point I got bored as it’s obvious this is not the case. Politicians have been dribbling in the Euro gravy train for decades so the notion this report is “empirical evidence” is somewhat laughable. The blood stained Blair creature (know him? Loves the EU) has empirical evidence there was weapons of mass destruction when actually there were no such thing.

Bet you used this in your essay didn’t you?

Ironically, you’re the one now dribbling.

RegTheDonk · May 27, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
So the repeating story so far seems to be that The Brexit Party are only really taking MEP’s of UKIP, the Lib Dem’s and Greens seem to be the ones taking MEP’s of the Conservatives and Labour and when you lump the parties with a clear remain policy together their votes outnumber those of parties with a clear hard brexit policy.

There’s no appetite for a hard brexit in this country.

Most people I know, friends and family, are traditionally Labour people. Many voted UKIP 5 years ago in the Euros - and a few also in the GE that followed the refferendum.

Speaking to all of them, other two that live down London, they all voted for the Brexit party on Thursday - but wouldn't waste a vote for them in a GE, seeing how much of the vote they once had but only delivered one MP.

Unheard of before, they WOULD vote blue if they Tory's guaranteed delivering Brexit.

I honestly think that if the Labs follow the Libs policy, they will lose out big style.

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

RegTheDonk said:
Most people I know, friends and family, are traditionally Labour people. Many voted UKIP 5 years ago in the Euros - and a few also in the GE that followed the refferendum.

Speaking to all of them, other two that live down London, they all voted for the Brexit party on Thursday - but wouldn't waste a vote for them in a GE, seeing how much of the vote they once had but only delivered one MP.

Unheard of before, they WOULD vote blue if they Tory's guaranteed delivering Brexit.

I honestly think that if the Labs follow the Libs policy, they will lose out big style.

I think either way the major parties are screwed. A hard Brexit Tory Party will lose out to Lib Dem in certain areas.

My guess is that Labour will promise a referendum on a deal. The difficulty with that is there’s no time for a hypothetical Labour Govt to negotiate a deal whilst a significant block wants to leave on the 31st October deal or no deal.

dutchman · May 27, 2019

dutchman said:
The turnout in the West Midlands was even worse than in the country as a whole, 31.1% compared to 33.3% in 2014.

I don't yet have figures for Coventry but the above broadly coincides with what I witnessed personally.

30.8%, lower than any of the neighbouring boroughs but slightly higher than the local council election (27%).

djr8369 · May 27, 2019

RegTheDonk said:
Most people I know, friends and family, are traditionally Labour people. Many voted UKIP 5 years ago in the Euros - and a few also in the GE that followed the refferendum.

Speaking to all of them, other two that live down London, they all voted for the Brexit party on Thursday - but wouldn't waste a vote for them in a GE, seeing how much of the vote they once had but only delivered one MP.

Unheard of before, they WOULD vote blue if they Tory's guaranteed delivering Brexit.

I honestly think that if the Labs follow the Libs policy, they will lose out big style.

Both parties are between a rock and a hard place but Lab have got it worse in that sense. Dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t. Tories will at least get some success shifting towards a harder Brexit.

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martcov · May 27, 2019

Evo1883 said:
Mart don't forget remainers actually got out to vote and leave voters didn't, as remainers are the people with a point to prove.

So it doesn't even remotely tell a story of what people want

Bollocks! Angry people vote. Brexit parties got 5 more seats than 2014, remain got 20 more than 2014. Remain are angrier. Most people don’t want the snake oil salesman and charlatan as leader.

Evo1883 · May 27, 2019

martcov said:
Bollocks! Angry people vote. Brexit parties got 5 more seats than 2014, remain got 20 more than 2014. Remain are angrier. Most people don’t want the snake oil salesman and charlatan as leader.

No the fact is turnout in leave voting areas was down.

That's not me making it up thats FACT

martcov · May 27, 2019

Evo1883 said:
Tony, the national front in France are anti EU Pro European, what on earth are you jibbering

Honestly I've been told for 3 years us leavers are the thick uninformed ones

They don’t want to leave the EU or the Euro. You seem to be ill informed.

Sick Boy · May 27, 2019

It’s funny that the left is still being associated with remain on when those same people have voted for a party who were happy to have a hard left candidate hahaha

dutchman · May 27, 2019

This is for Sick Boy

Sky Blue Harry H · May 27, 2019

Will people be as upset on here when it ends (like G.O.T.) or do we want it to go on forever? Can't ever remember such a farce. If Labour had a half decent leader they ought to have wiped the floor with the rest. Unbelievable (in the words of the great Stephen Mulhern)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 27, 2019

Evo1883 said:
No the fact is turnout in leave voting areas was down.

That's not me making it up thats FACT

But doesn't that prove his point? If leave cared so much they'd have gone out and voted Brexit if for no other reason than to make their point they want to leave? Leave not turning out would also support the swing towards Remain parties from the established two being three times greater than those moving towards Leave parties.

Grendel · May 27, 2019

martcov said:
Bollocks! Angry people vote. Brexit parties got 5 more seats than 2014, remain got 20 more than 2014. Remain are angrier. Most people don’t want the snake oil salesman and charlatan as leader.

So remainers aren’t angry and are happy to leave - wow

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

For anyone debating whether Leave or Remain ‘won’ last night... it was a draw. We’ll see what happens from now from Lab and Con, but you’ll think their positions will become more polarised now too.

At a guess, you’d think we’re heading for a no deal or a second referendum now.

Mucca Mad Boys · May 27, 2019

Grendel said:
So remainers aren’t angry and are happy to leave - wow

Where do you come up with this dribble G?

Grendel · May 27, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Where do you come up with this dribble G?

Mart is one whose dribbling about low turnouts distorting the result not me

Grendel · May 27, 2019

Mucca Mad Boys said:
For anyone debating whether Leave or Remain ‘won’ last night... it was a draw. We’ll see what happens from now from Lab and Con, but you’ll think their positions will become more polarised now too.

At a guess, you’d think we’re heading for a no deal or a second referendum now.

How can a second referendum get through parliament?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 27, 2019

There is something that I didn't get with the PR voting system for EU elections. Why, when allocated a seat, is that parties voting percentage halved? It just seem massively arbitrary and not proportional. If you did that in a general election you'd get very skewed parliaments. If it's proportional 30% of the votes would mean 30% of the seats.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

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