The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (92 Viewers)

fellatio_Martinez · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
And I can’t quite believe I have to explain that Top Gear was a scripted comedy car show. In the same way the Daily Show is a scripted comedy news show. It may have had knowledgable hosts, but it was primarily an entertainment show watched by people for the banter more than the cars.

You're wrong plain and simple and even though this has gotten silly and pointless I'll continue because I can't sleep.

You tried to group Top Gear in with Comedy Panel shows when they're completely different. Top Gear isn't listed anywhere as a comedy. It's a scripted entertainment show. Of course it can attempt to be funny and I'm sure some lads think exhaust pipe word play is funny but it was never inherently a comedy. The One Show adds humour into segments but it's not a comedy.

In case there's any doubt lets see it's official description.

Top Gear is a British motoring magazine, factual television series

dutchman · Oct 18, 2019

What's to stop the Scots demanding the same arrangement as is being proposed for Northern Ireland, or from stopping any one of the other 27 member states from demanding the same preferential treatment as Northern ireland?

Astute · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
I think you’ve got to be pretty naive not to think the established media, civil service, armed forces, secret service, etc aren’t heavily against a left wing agenda. Most of them have been through some form of elite education and been taught how that class hangs onto things. Eton doesn’t produce many Labour MPs.

It isn't me that needs a lecture on the subject.

It is subjects like Corbyn that shows the whole Brexit debacle doesn't have a chance of proper debate. You know Labour doesn't have a chance of success with Corbyn as leader. You have said so yourself. But as soon as I say anything similar you are straight on my back making out I am wrong or wanting me to explain myself.

It has been great spending a couple of weeks with my wife and kids in France. I have even kept away from all the Brexit bullshit most of the time. But at the same time I have had to chase up everything to stay here. Yesterday was setting up a bank account here and registering for paying tax in France. I am even a shareholder in the bank we have accounts in.

Oh well. Just two more days of the great life then back to England for work reasons for 52 days. But will be back for my first xmas/new year in France.

Astute · Oct 18, 2019

dutchman said:
What's to stop the Scots demanding the same arrangement as is being proposed for Northern Ireland, or from stopping any one of the other 27 member states from demanding the same preferential treatment as Northern ireland?

Absolutely nothing. But nothing would be offered until it had to be.

This is what a couple of us have been saying. It looks like the UK will have a unique deal to sort out the problems. The same unique deal with the EU that was said on here not to have a chance of happening. But Ireland was always going to need a unique deal with the EU as it is a unique problem to be solved.

Otis · Oct 18, 2019

Sick Boy said:
HAHAHAHA! He’s the one who Farage does regular interviews with to spread made up crap, imagine actually voting for someone who’s aligned with him. Wow.

I knew those damn Nazis would be involved somewhere down the line.

shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

Astute said:
Absolutely nothing. But nothing would be offered until it had to be.

This is what a couple of us have been saying. It looks like the UK will have a unique deal to sort out the problems. The same unique deal with the EU that was said on here not to have a chance of happening. But Ireland was always going to need a unique deal with the EU as it is a unique problem to be solved.

Im not sure it’s been solved considering the DUP are voting against it. Seems like we’ve just decided to ignore the DUP. This is basically the deal we came up with originally. We dropped a red line. Which is what we’ve all been saying was needed.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 18, 2019

chiefdave said:
Wonder who said this "Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else, to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union".

So he created it himself

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shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

Astute said:
It isn't me that needs a lecture on the subject.

It is subjects like Corbyn that shows the whole Brexit debacle doesn't have a chance of proper debate. You know Labour doesn't have a chance of success with Corbyn as leader. You have said so yourself. But as soon as I say anything similar you are straight on my back making out I am wrong or wanting me to explain myself.

It has been great spending a couple of weeks with my wife and kids in France. I have even kept away from all the Brexit bullshit most of the time. But at the same time I have had to chase up everything to stay here. Yesterday was setting up a bank account here and registering for paying tax in France. I am even a shareholder in the bank we have accounts in.

Oh well. Just two more days of the great life then back to England for work reasons for 52 days. But will be back for my first xmas/new year in France.

Mate. I say this with love. Go and talk to someone. I’m not on your back or having a go. I’m just having a discussion. I’m not demanding you explain yourself, I’m asking you a question because I’m interested in your thoughts.

I’ve explained my view on Corbyn honestly: I like his ideas (and by his I mean the movement that is behind him) and I don’t see anyone else to support even though I think he’s not great. I don’t think anyone could win it for Labour at the moment. Just because I’m not shouting Corbyn is a terrorist doesn’t mean I’m in some kind of denial.

Hope it all works out for you.

Astute · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
Im not sure it’s been solved considering the DUP are voting against it. Seems like we’ve just decided to ignore the DUP. This is basically the deal we came up with originally. We dropped a red line. Which is what we’ve all been saying was needed.

I agree it is a bit early to say solved.

But yes a so called red line was moved and the EU changed what they said was happen also. But you only mention the red line bit. Not a surprise though.

Astute · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
Mate. I say this with love. Go and talk to someone. I’m not on your back or having a go. I’m just having a discussion. I’m not demanding you explain yourself, I’m asking you a question because I’m interested in your thoughts.

I’ve explained my view on Corbyn honestly: I like his ideas (and by his I mean the movement that is behind him) and I don’t see anyone else to support even though I think he’s not great. I don’t think anyone could win it for Labour at the moment. Just because I’m not shouting Corbyn is a terrorist doesn’t mean I’m in some kind of denial.

Hope it all works out for you.

So why is it you constantly ask me on my opinions of Corbyn although you know they are very similar to your own yet you never once question those who would do or say anything on behalf of remaining and have a go for no reason those who don't conform.

Simple question really.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
Eton doesn’t produce many Labour MPs.

Or any of the other groups you mention in reality I suspect.

Just the populistic traditional myth

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shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

Astute said:
So why is it you constantly ask me on my opinions of Corbyn although you know they are very similar to your own yet you never once question those who would do or say anything on behalf of remaining and have a go for no reason those who don't conform.

Simple question really.

AFAIK I asked you once what the event that you felt made him untenable was. Look I can’t be jarred with an argument on who said what. No worries here.

shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
Or any of the other groups you mention in reality I suspect.

Just the populistic traditional myth

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Britain’s top jobs still in hands of private school elite, study finds

This is well established fact.

Astute · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
AFAIK I asked you once what the event that you felt made him untenable was. Look I can’t be jarred with an argument on who said what. No worries here.

If you look back you will see you have questioned me several times on the subject. That us why I now reply saying you know exactly what my thoughts are in him. Yet you very rarely say a word to those who have always defended him.

Not after an argument. Just want to know why I constantly get questioned by certain people. Then you have those who don't mind how untruthful they are with their comments. And I need us to remain at least as much as anyone else.

My problem is that the more I have found out about how the EU is run the more worried I am for the future. And I know many don't understand this.

Astute · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
Britain’s top jobs still in hands of private school elite, study finds

This is well established fact.

And that is the problem. It is who you know and not what you know.

Show me a powerful group and I will show you the same problem.

Grendel · Oct 18, 2019

Curious comments from Sturgeon suggesting labour will be behind closed doors encouraging rebels in the party to vote for it

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 18, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Must say it’s interesting that after the Tories spent 2015 scaremongering about Labour endangering the union with an SNP alliance that they are managing to endanger it 10 ways from Sunday. Not to mention the half arsed defence they put up in 2014.

No one remembers history

SkyblueBazza · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
Britain’s top jobs still in hands of private school elite, study finds

This is well established fact.

But what you provided shows only 4 out of 10 professions with a majority of PRIVATELY EDUCATED (not Eton specifically)

All that could suggest is that private education employs the better teachers, who turn out better educated & better equipped people to fill the jobs in most of those fields. Others maybe feel bitter they have missed out somewhere & therefore adopt anti-Tory (because of the perception that only Tories are turned out from such places)

I mean, your original comment regarding the armed forces...the consideration that the average squaddie or similar in the navy or air force is automatically a Tory is laughable in itself.

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shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

Astute said:
If you look back you will see you have questioned me several times on the subject. That us why I now reply saying you know exactly what my thoughts are in him. Yet you very rarely say a word to those who have always defended him.

Not after an argument. Just want to know why I constantly get questioned by certain people. Then you have those who don't mind how untruthful they are with their comments. And I need us to remain at least as much as anyone else.

My problem is that the more I have found out about how the EU is run the more worried I am for the future. And I know many don't understand this.

Fair enough. I have terrible memory so will defer. Apologies if I gave the impression of badgering you, wasnt my intention. Nothing I post online is personal, I just enjoy the clash of ideas.

shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
But what you provided shows only 4 out of 10 professions with a majority of PRIVATELY EDUCATED (not Eton specifically)

All that could suggest is that private education employs the better teachers, who turn out better educated & better equipped people to fill the jobs in most of those fields. Others maybe feel bitter they have missed out somewhere & therefore adopt anti-Tory (because of the perception that only Tories are turned out from such places)

I mean, your original comment regarding the armed forces...the consideration that the average squaddie or similar in the navy or air force is automatically a Tory is laughable in itself.

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So much to unpack. I only mentioned Eton specifically in terms of the politics of those that come out of it. Eton is the worst example but all private schools are on that scale.

Squaddies don’t run the army. That’s like me complaining about tech giants and you saying the bloke who works in the Amazon fulfilment center is alright. But there is a right wing bias in the military, just as there’s a left wing bias in academia, because those careers suit those philosophical beliefs. Also, you don’t see other professions needing to post up guidelines on how to spot far right sentiment among their ranks.

As for the quality of teaching argument, that makes no sense as private schools take from the same pool. I’d like to see some evidence. Regardless you’re now arguing about *why* something is the case not *if* it’s the case which was your original point.

If you want my professional opinion as a former teacher the attainment gap between public and private is no great mystery. They have a self selecting cohort of better off pupils, they have far more funding and smaller class sizes. But mostly they have better networking opportunities. I work with privately educated people and see this every day.

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 18, 2019

Really very scared for the future of our nation

it needs cool heads and wise conscientious leaders with integrity to charter the next 5-10 years and I don’t see any

the aggression on the streets is awful and half the country are going to be so angry

I personally am an arch remainer but I hope the deal goes through so we can move on and start to rebuild

Otis · Oct 18, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Really very scared for the future of our nation

it needs cool heads and wise conscientious leaders with integrity to charter the next 5-10 years and I don’t see any

the aggression on the streets is awful and half the country are going to be so angry

I personally am an arch remainer but I hope the deal goes through so we can move on and start to rebuild

I don't want a bad deal to go through.

I voted remain, but then accepted the leave result, but now I want the whole thing to go back to the country and hopefully get ditched. The whole thing is just a mess.

chiefdave · Oct 18, 2019

Dominic Rabb making a good case for remaining in the EU on R4 Today this morning. ""it's a cracking deal for Northern Ireland ... they get frictionless access to the Single Market and Customs Union".

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 18, 2019

Otis said:
I don't want a bad deal to go through.

I voted remain, but then accepted the leave result, but now I want the whole thing to go back to the country and hopefully get ditched. The whole thing is just a mess.

How does that end though my good friend?

Grendel · Oct 18, 2019

Otis said:
I don't want a bad deal to go through.

I voted remain, but then accepted the leave result, but now I want the whole thing to go back to the country and hopefully get ditched. The whole thing is just a mess.

How would a referendum result in it getting ditched?

SIR ERNIE · Oct 18, 2019

Grendel said:
Curious comments from Sturgeon suggesting labour will be behind closed doors encouraging rebels in the party to vote for it

I can believe that.

Grendel · Oct 18, 2019

chiefdave said:
Dominic Rabb making a good case for remaining in the EU on R4 Today this morning. ""it's a cracking deal for Northern Ireland ... they get frictionless access to the Single Market and Customs Union".

Not really as even the Scottish nationalists thinks these things ha e no relevance with regard to their biggest trading partner

shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

Master negotiator Boris at it again

Grendel · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
Master negotiator Boris at it again

Ah yes a huge remainer who often has mysterious sources to back up his own agenda

ccfc92 · Oct 18, 2019

Guardian Headlines :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Grendel · Oct 18, 2019

One of the few MPs who seems to have any sense of perspective on this is Stephen Kinnock

A pro Eu MP who sees a need to accommodate all views. I think he has a phrase about the vote that it was a vote to leave the street but remain in the neighbourhood. So we must leave but accept the result as being close so we need to retain much of the partnership.

it’s unfortunate that he seems a voice in the wilderness.

compare that to the absurd labour MP I saw today on TV who was ranting the deal proposed was shocking - the only reason she could say why when pressed was mobile phone coverage would cease. She did wake up then and said it would be a return to Victorian times for workers. Then she said she’d vote for it if it was attached to a referendum

shmmeee · Oct 18, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
How does that end though my good friend?

Same as previous mass delusions like flares or fondue. We all pretend it was other people who went mental.

SkyblueBazza · Oct 18, 2019

shmmeee said:
So much to unpack. I only mentioned Eton specifically in terms of the politics of those that come out of it. Eton is the worst example but all private schools are on that scale.

Squaddies don’t run the army. That’s like me complaining about tech giants and you saying the bloke who works in the Amazon fulfilment center is alright. But there is a right wing bias in the military, just as there’s a left wing bias in academia, because those careers suit those philosophical beliefs. Also, you don’t see other professions needing to post up guidelines on how to spot far right sentiment among their ranks.

As for the quality of teaching argument, that makes no sense as private schools take from the same pool. I’d like to see some evidence. Regardless you’re now arguing about *why* something is the case not *if* it’s the case which was your original point.

If you want my professional opinion as a former teacher the attainment gap between public and private is no great mystery. They have a self selecting cohort of better off pupils, they have far more funding and smaller class sizes. But mostly they have better networking opportunities. I work with privately educated people and see this every day.

So much bitterness

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Grendel · Oct 18, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
So much bitterness

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he does have a chip on both shoulders to be fair

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 18, 2019

fellatio_Martinez said:
Finding something funny is completely subjective though. Of course you don't think any right leaning comedy is funny because you're left wing and it doesn't sit well with you.

The comment about Top Gear is ludicrous. It's a car show. That's inherently what it is. Mock The Week has a stand up segment and is billed as a comedy. HIGNFY has a team captain who is a stand up and at least one comedian on the panel and a script written by comedians.

I can't quite believe I had to explain that.

Paul Merton isn't a stand-up. He's an improv comedian. Geoff Norcott has also been a writer on the show recently.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (92 Viewers)

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