The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

clint van damme said:
Which is why Johnson should accept the extension.
No doubt there would be amendments go in to protect workers rights and if he accepts them I think the deal will go through.
Personally, I think 5 years of Johnson is probably neccessary to have any chance of coming out the other side with the kind of government I'd like.

That’s the problem, his current compromise has to include everyone from Melanie Onn to Steve Barclay, if he moves further left to accommodate Labour he’ll lose the ERG.

I suspect there’s two ways out of this: a compromise soft CU Brexit that brings on board Labour, or a GE with a Tory majority and a hard Brexit. And they’ve spent so long telling people CU Brexit isn’t real Brexit I’m not sure they can walk back from it.

The next few elections will all be about Brexit. Trade negotiations, whether we should rejoin, its fucking depressing. We aren’t getting back to sorting the country out before I’m looking at retirement at this rate, by which point the climate will be hard fucking us.

All so fucking pointless.

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

dutchman said:
Looks to me as if you're the one getting red-faced and upset about everything.

You can see and hear people through the Internet now? Do your powers know no end?

Got any actual responses to any of the detailed points raised in this thread or just fancy showing how out of your depth you are in a serious political debate? I’m afraid Doms already taken the parody Brexiter mantle, you’ll need to find your own shtick.

clint van damme · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
That’s the problem, his current compromise has to include everyone from Melanie Onn to Steve Barclay, if he moves further left to accommodate Labour he’ll lose the ERG.

I suspect there’s two ways out of this: a compromise soft CU Brexit that brings on board Labour, or a GE with a Tory majority and a hard Brexit. And they’ve spent so long telling people CU Brexit isn’t real Brexit I’m not sure they can walk back from it.

The next few elections will all be about Brexit. Trade negotiations, whether we should rejoin, its fucking depressing. We aren’t getting back to sorting the country out before I’m looking at retirement at this rate, by which point the climate will be hard fucking us.

All so fucking pointless.

Everyone thinks the Tories will get a big majority at the next GE, Im not so sure.
Of course it looks as though Johnson will go for the sympathy vote- I tried to get a deal but was thwarted - in the hope he gets a big majority and can leave with no deal. It could work but I think it's a risky strategy

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Oct 23, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I'm not aiming it at the leavers such as yourself, or the likes of Astute, Bazza or Steve, even Grendel. It is just aimed at Dom. He just constantly spouts the slogans and buzzwords without providing anything of meaning. The rest of you do and I'm fine with that. It's just the constant "Remoaner" crap and "You lost. Get over it". That isn't debating or discussing - it's Maybot and Strong and Stable, Strong and Stable, Strong and Stable, System malfunction.....

BTW Dom, it's only on this thread. On the football etc I think you're fine and put forward points and explain them.

Fair comment !. We're all City fans !

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

clint van damme said:
Everyone thinks the Tories will get a big majority at the next GE, Im not so sure.
Of course it looks as though Johnson will go for the sympathy vote- I tried to get a deal but was thwarted - in the hope he gets a big majority and can leave with no deal. It could work but I think it's a risky strategy

I don’t think he wants no deal. That’s why he’s gutted Mays deal as much as possible. I saw a story that the spooks have spoken to him about no deal, after which Johnson looked shell shocked and said “a country could handle one of these, but never all at once”. Shortly afterwards there were stories about how there’s tension between the two sides of his team (Cummings on brexit vs ex London Mayor staff on domestic policy), which makes me think he decided to switch tack. I mean he could’ve got this deal the day he walked into No 10, there was no reason to leave it until now. I suspect the Benn Act and that security briefing made him realise he needs a deal.

Id love to believe Labour will pull a 2017 again, but the underlying data doesn’t support it. Corbyns ratings have gone through the floor since. I suspect we’ll see a 5-10 point lead for the Tories and that’s enough for a majority.

westcountry_skyblue · Oct 23, 2019

I think labour need to get rid of their front bench if they have any thoughts of power,Apart from Starmer who I think will be the next leader after they lose the next election.
Quite like starmer tbh he’d give the torys a problem.

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

westcountry_skyblue said:
I think labour need to get rid of their front bench if they have any thoughts of power,Apart from Starmer who I think will be the next leader after they lose the next election.
Quite like starmer tbh he’d give the torys a problem.

Im Here for Keir, just worry he’s a blank sheet everyone is projecting their hopes onto. The front bench is fucking shameful. I never want to hear from Richard fucking Burgeon again.

Labour have lost their leadership pipeline, I genuinely can’t see them getting a decent leader again. I honestly worry that the modern economy makes the working class entirely politically powerless.

clint van damme · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
I don’t think he wants no deal. That’s why he’s gutted Mays deal as much as possible. I saw a story that the spooks have spoken to him about no deal, after which Johnson looked shell shocked and said “a country could handle one of these, but never all at once”. Shortly afterwards there were stories about how there’s tension between the two sides of his team (Cummings on brexit vs ex London Mayor staff on domestic policy), which makes me think he decided to switch tack. I mean he could’ve got this deal the day he walked into No 10, there was no reason to leave it until now. I suspect the Benn Act and that security briefing made him realise he needs a deal.

Id love to believe Labour will pull a 2017 again, but the underlying data doesn’t support it. Corbyns ratings have gone through the floor since. I suspect we’ll see a 5-10 point lead for the Tories and that’s enough for a majority.

Not heard that story. Wouldn't be surprised though. Think it's probably a scenario that happens all over the world, someone gets elected full of ideals and then they get told what's really going on.

ccfc92 · Oct 23, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Without banging on about Corbyn's policies, I find him thoroughly boring, rleuctant to speak in the Commons, always reads from his notes and is only in his comfort zone when he's preaching to the converted at an outdoor rally. He's a bloody useless leader and his party will never win with him at the helm.

He did hold a speaker up once though. so you know, he's a quirky character in touch with the common man...

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 23, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
Fair play Clint ! Bizarrely I’m almost the opposite. If a second referendum could be held in short order (next month), I’d accept it just to get out of this parliamentary purgatory ! Two tier - in/out and then current deal (as it stands) or no deal. I think similar tight result for first tier (out) and then a stronger majority for deal.

Unfortunately referendums take months so still just hoping a sensible deal gets through then we can just move on

Having said that, what the fuck will we all do without this thread ?!!!

It's alright, this is just the beginning!

clint van damme · Oct 23, 2019

ccfc92 said:
He did hold a speaker up once though. so you know, he's a quirky character in touch with the common man...

And he didn't rinse his expenses for stuff like ornamental ducks and bath taps so you're right

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
You can see and hear people through the Internet now? Do your powers know no end?

Got any actual responses to any of the detailed points raised in this thread or just fancy showing how out of your depth you are in a serious political debate? I’m afraid Doms already taken the parody Brexiter mantle, you’ll need to find your own shtick.

It's these kind of comments that actually say more about you than anything else. Next you'll be blaming the deaths of all those under 40, stabbed to death, on all those over 40 who voted leave.

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2019

clint van damme said:
Everyone thinks the Tories will get a big majority at the next GE, Im not so sure.
Of course it looks as though Johnson will go for the sympathy vote- I tried to get a deal but was thwarted - in the hope he gets a big majority and can leave with no deal. It could work but I think it's a risky strategy

I think logic tells you that the Tories are severely in danger of losing a good proportion if not all their seats in Scotland so there’s the first mountain to climb. Then you have London seats where the vote was heavily remain, that’s going to be tricky for them. Then if Boris campaigns on a manifesto of delivering his deal the Tories could well lose votes to the Brexit Party who clearly wants hard/clean/WTO or whatever you want to call it brexit. Traditional Tory voters who are ardent remainers could well switch to LD. Regardless of what the polls say Boris is going to have to fight to keep votes as well as win votes, he’s could well be fighting on 2 fronts. Then you have his history. How much of that is going to catch him up in a GE, expect all sorts to come out the woodwork and one story sticking might be enough to turn voters away from him.
Anyone who thinks that it’s plain sailing for Boris into a majority government is more than likely going to be disappointed.

If as many analysts claim that the polls won’t translate into seats and nothing changes he might need someone like the DUP (fat chance now I would think) to prop him up. It might even mean that Labour, Lib Dem’s and SNP in some sort of coalition.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
Im Here for Keir, just worry he’s a blank sheet everyone is projecting their hopes onto. The front bench is fucking shameful. I never want to hear from Richard fucking Burgeon again.

Labour have lost their leadership pipeline, I genuinely can’t see them getting a decent leader again. I honestly worry that the modern economy makes the working class entirely politically powerless.

I was thinking the other day about potential leaders and Starmer was probably the strongest I came up with. The fact that Jess Phillips even crossed my mind shows how much they're struggling. She seems comfortable speaking and down to earth, but probably can't see her swaying many of the middle ground

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
It's these kind of comments that actually say more about you than anything else. Next you'll be blaming the deaths of all those under 40, stabbed to death, on all those over 40 who voted leave.

If we go through another decade of underfunding health and social services then yes I will. I will always blame low information Tory voters for the consequences of their actions.

Voting matters. It’s not a game. People’s lives depend on it. Frankly I wish the children that can’t handle that would fuck off back to ignoring politics because “they’re all the same”.

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I was thinking the other day about potential leaders and Starmer was probably the strongest I came up with. The fact that Jess Phillips even crossed my mind shows how much they're struggling. She seems comfortable speaking and down to earth, but probably can't see her swaying many of the middle ground

Starmer is the default leader because he’s quiet and kept his politics to himself, but in reality he’s dull AF.

Once the unions died Labour lost its supply of working class leaders. Now we’ve just got managerial PPE types and shouty activists.

SBAndy · Oct 23, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Amazing how arrogant remoaners are, can see why they piss so many people off

What do you do for a living Dom?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 23, 2019

SBAndy said:
What do you do for a living Dom?

PR

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
PR

Boris Johnson’s advisor

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
If we go through another decade of underfunding health and social services then yes I will. I will always blame low information Tory voters for the consequences of their actions.

Voting matters. It’s not a game. People’s lives depend on it. Frankly I wish the children that can’t handle that would fuck off back to ignoring politics because “they’re all the same”.

Your comments were towards the 'parody brexiteer" whatever that is supposed to mean. Another cheap throw away comment . No wonder you get remarks like '"you lost, get over it "

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Your comments were towards the 'parody brexiteer" whatever that is supposed to mean. Another cheap throw away comment . No wonder you get remarks like '"you lost, get over it "

Oh sorry, did I belittle the in depth political analysis that you guys were offering? How silly of me.

Get in the bin.

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2019

I see a journalist has come out accusing No10 of deliberately spreading fake news through the media since Boris arrived. Especially it seems to smear opponents. This coming from a Daily Mail journalist also of all papers, not one of these communist lesbian climate change hoax buying snowflake worthless rags full of dribbling europhile “journalists”.

shmmeee · Oct 23, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
I see a journalist has come out accusing No10 of deliberately spreading fake news through the media since Boris arrived. Especially it seems to smear opponents. This coming from a Daily Mail journalist also of all papers, not one of these communist lesbian climate change hoax buying snowflake worthless rags full of dribbling europhile “journalists”.

There’s been a few articles like that recently. “Anonymous number ten sources” saying shit like we are investigating “Remainers” for foreign collusion, or spreading lies about Amber Rudd.

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
There’s been a few articles like that recently. “Anonymous number ten sources” saying shit like we are investigating “Remainers” for foreign collusion, or spreading lies about Amber Rudd.

Not surprising. No10’s target audience will unquestionably lap it up. It doesn’t matter that it’s lies so long as it’s what they want to hear.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Oct 23, 2019

shmmeee said:
Oh sorry, did I belittle the in depth political analysis that you guys were offering? How silly of me.

Get in the bin.

.
Time to grow up I think. This is not about any political analysis, this is your personal anger because you didn't get your way.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 23, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
I see a journalist has come out accusing No10 of deliberately spreading fake news through the media since Boris arrived. Especially it seems to smear opponents. This coming from a Daily Mail journalist also of all papers, not one of these communist lesbian climate change hoax buying snowflake worthless rags full of dribbling europhile “journalists”.

Didn't Alexander have meeting with Steve Bannon at some point? Got his fingerprints all over it.

Grendel · Oct 23, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
.
Time to grow up I think. This is not about any political analysis, this is your personal anger because you didn't get your way.

I suspect he’s a very angry person a lot of the time

Astute · Oct 24, 2019

clint van damme said:
I know a few people who've said the same.
I'm getting tired of it now, there are major issues in this country need addressing and this shit is taking up nearly all of everyone's time.
Johnson should accept the extension, let his WA get proper scrutiny and I think then his deal can go through with a few amendments and we can all move on.
Not ideal for everyone I admit but the uncertainty is starting to have a huge impact.

My exact thoughts and exactly what I have said. Hopefully you have your tin hat on.......

Astute · Oct 24, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I'm not aiming it at the leavers such as yourself, or the likes of Astute, Bazza or Steve, even Grendel.

Would you like to explain why you consider me to be a leaver?

All I do is point out the lies and inaccuracies. This is from both sides. But only one side ever gets noticed by certain people.

This Brexit bullshit has cost me thousands personally already. I need certainty back. I need something to happen. I can't stand many more years of this crap to continue. I don't like comments like 'peoples vote' or similar. It tries to make out that the last vote wasn't a vote of the people. I don't like it when we are supposed to concentrate on one side having told us lies. I don't like it when only one side of parliament are full of shit.

I could continue for ages. But those who don't look at my posts looking for something to have a go at know exactly what I am saying. My family has moved to France. I need to know what I have to do to secure their futures. I have 3 children at school in France. I have my wife who has retired at 52. This is creating a problem. The exchange rate is costing me a lot each month.

So what is wrong with me wanting it over one way or another? Why does it make me a leaver?

Astute · Oct 24, 2019

clint van damme said:
I have no problem with Labour dumping Corbyn if they can replace him with a better leader who is politically similar

Problem is, if he goes we'll be back to a centrist Blair clone, and look how that ended

The better leader shouldn't be hard. But we have a history of promoting the wrong person.

Astute · Oct 24, 2019

shmmeee said:
If we go through another decade of underfunding health and social services then yes I will. I will always blame low information Tory voters for the consequences of their actions.

Voting matters. It’s not a game. People’s lives depend on it. Frankly I wish the children that can’t handle that would fuck off back to ignoring politics because “they’re all the same”.

Yet you refuse to consider the referendum vote as such.

clint van damme · Oct 24, 2019

Astute said:
My exact thoughts and exactly what I have said. Hopefully you have your tin hat on.......

I work in an industrial area of Birmingham which has gone from incredibly busy to everyday resembling a Sunday in the last couple of years.
There are a lot of factors involved but uncertainty and firms not investing due to uncertainty is definitely a big one.

We need to get something decisive done and move on. As far as I'm concerned there is no good outcome from this but at least once we've had a definitive outcome everyone can start planning for the future no matter what shit storm we have to navigate our way through first.

djr8369 · Oct 24, 2019

shmmeee said:
There’s been a few articles like that recently. “Anonymous number ten sources” saying shit like we are investigating “Remainers” for foreign collusion, or spreading lies about Amber Rudd.

Laura K and Peston have several of these a day on twitter. Almost always completely bollocks, usually Cummings trying to change the narrative or throwing out a distraction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sick Boy · Oct 24, 2019

It’s funny that we have those who kept going on about how bad May’s deal was and now seem to be desperate to get an even worse deal through.

clint van damme · Oct 24, 2019

Sick Boy said:
It’s funny that we have those who kept going on about how bad May’s deal was and now seem to be desperate to get an even worse deal through.

I'm probably in this category to be honest but this has to come to a head soon, hopefully given time to assess it MPs will put in amendments to improve the agreement and get it through.

I don't see any good outcomes from this, just some that aren't as bad as others.

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