Astute
Well-Known Member
So we were doing badly until 1993?
Some people here would have fitted in well with campaigners for remain. How do you expect to be taken seriously when only looking at one side?
So we were doing badly until 1993?Actually we were in the European Community in 1976, being in the common market was part of that but we weren't in the common market and the common market alone. The European community became the EU in 1993 with the signing of the Maastricht treaty. Which we signed.
Just saying what?
This is utter bollocks and an outright lie.
So we were doing badly until 1993?
Some people here would have fitted in well with campaigners for remain. How do you expect to be taken seriously when only looking at one side?
Just saying what?
No, it’s not bollocks and as it’s my personal opinion it’s not a lie.
As I’ve said, I’ve spent considerable time working and living in Italy over the last five years. I have many friends there and I speak the language. My observation based on that experience is that a large and increasing number of Italians attribute the country’s growing economic difficulties to the Euro. They want to get out of the Euro and many believe that the only way that can happen is to exit the EU itself. That’s why many Italians admire the fact that the UK retained their own currency and share our desire to break free of the EU. Not all Italians but a large and it seems to me, increasing proportion.
That’s my observation, based on my experience. It may well be very different to your observation based on your experience of Italy. That’s fine. It’s not a lie simply because you don’t want to hear it.
And what was I supposed to have said?Turkey has no appetite to join the EU. Which is what I've been trying to point out to you from the start.
So are you pretending that the common market was the same as the EU, you actually believe that the common market was the same as the EU or are you just coming out with crap to try and validate some sort of point?Just correcting the assumption that we were only in the common market in 76, we weren't. That's nothing to do with taking sides that's stating a fact. We were essentially in the EU albeit not in name and with the same powers pre Maastricht. The common market did not evolve into the EU. If you don't want to deal with facts fair enough.
And your point is?
We all know it was bullshit. Are you now going to list all the remain bullshit?
Didn't think so.
Some parts of Italy want out. Some want to stay in. Just the same as the UK. And just because you can name parts that want to stay in it doesn't mean that everywhere wants to stay.You clearly presented it as a fact.
The number of Italians wanting to leave the EU is still in a minority, and as far as I'm aware the only political party wanting to leave is La Lega. Granted, from your posting history you appear to share many of their ideals.
The shambolic 5 Star movement want to leave the Euro, but they are an utter shambles and are not going to gain power.
Having read the Italian press over the last year, I've seen very little admiration for Brexit. As in the UK, the younger generation is very pro-EU.
The main reasons for the Italian economy's poor performance is deep, deep corrupton across the whole of society, and massive tax evasion, which is practised by pretty much everyone.
Some parts of Italy want out. Some want to stay in. Just the same as the UK. And just because you can name parts that want to stay in it doesn't mean that everywhere wants to stay.
Whichever side would have won would have done so because of lies. But most people saw through them. Or are you saying that all leave voters voted so because they believed the lies?what remain bullshit? Leave won based on lies, remain didn't.
You want the net 10 billion save you refer to spend where it's needed. If you think that's going to happen you're mad. It will go exactly where it's not needed.
So are you pretending that the common market was the same as the EU, you actually believe that the common market was the same as the EU or are you just coming out with crap to try and validate some sort of point?
Whichever side would have won would have done so because of lies. But most people saw through them. Or are you saying that all leave voters voted so because they believed the lies?
And what was I supposed to have said?
The EU can't afford them to join if we leave. They won't be able to afford what they already have unless Germany pumps more Billions in to cover us leaving. That is why they are shitting themselves.
But like I said the EU can't afford Turkey to join the EU. They have had enough basket cases join already. And we won't be there to help pay to make a mess of their country like we have with others like Greece.
No, it’s not bollocks and as it’s my personal opinion it’s not a lie.
As I’ve said, I’ve spent considerable time working and living in Italy over the last five years. I have many friends there and I speak the language. My observation based on that experience is that a large and increasing number of Italians attribute the country’s growing economic difficulties to the Euro. They want to get out of the Euro and many believe that the only way that can happen is to exit the EU itself. That’s why many Italians admire the fact that the UK retained their own currency and share our desire to break free of the EU. Not all Italians but a large and it seems to me, increasing proportion.
That’s my observation, based on my experience. It may well be very different to your observation based on your experience of Italy. That’s fine. It’s not a lie simply because you don’t want to hear it.
Interesting that lead Brexiteer Davies has admitted that it's highly unlikely other countries will follow the UK out.
I still don't understand why so many Leave voters and a minority on here are so desperate for the EU to collapse.
2 and 4 could still happen, I really fear number 2 will.
As for the record numbers in work, thre is a back story to that which we both know you've conveniently forgotten to mention.
Not all. Just a large proportion!
Why are you so obsessed with Corbyn?
I've already listed the numerous lies the remain campaign told on here. The motivation for a lot of remain voters was not a love of the EU but a fear based on statements of economic meltdown immediately after the decision to leave was made.
Then why are we arguing for in the first place?! I didn't say it did, I said the IMF bailout did, and the Common Market, which merged into the EU, aided the UK's economy.
I find it utterly hilarious that the youth of today who we are told are the future are so ignorant of history that they voted in droves for the most anti EU party leader we've had since Michael Foot.
And likewise for the leave campaign. I think I made the point very early in this thread that if you took both campaigns on face value you wouldn't vote either in or out as both campaigns were spurious and based on fear telling you why you shouldn't vote for the other argument rather than why you should vote for theirs.
The leave campaign was always going to be based on negativity. Remains campaign failed because it fell into the same trap rather than promoting a positive remain campaign.
It didn't merge into the EU at all. The European Union was a political integration strategy aimed at developing a federal Europe. The Maastricht and Lisbon treaties created a union which no one voted for in the UK
Our economic prosperity in the 90's was largely due to one thing. Our decision to retain our own currency. If we hadn't we most certainly would not now be the 5th largest economy. It's devaluation in the 90's would have had a catastrophic impact on the uk. Without being rude if you deny this then you are not worthy of debate as practically every economist will tell you that.
Only once did we try and ally to Europe and that was the Exchange Rate Mechanism. Despite her bluster until that point Thatcher was a typical euriphile. The dopes Lampnt and Clarke would have kept us in it and had the euro. At they point mortgage interest rates would have escalated to virtually 20%. It showed the price you really could pay allied to a huge unworkable conglomerate like the EU.
It didn't merge into the EU at all. The European Union was a political integration strategy aimed at developing a federal Europe. The Maastricht and Lisbon treaties created a union which no one voted for in the UK
Our economic prosperity in the 90's was largely due to one thing. Our decision to retain our own currency. If we hadn't we most certainly would not now be the 5th largest economy. It's devaluation in the 90's would have had a catastrophic impact on the uk. Without being rude if you deny this then you are not worthy of debate as practically every economist will tell you that.
Only once did we try and ally to Europe and that was the Exchange Rate Mechanism. Despite her bluster until that point Thatcher was a typical euriphile. The dopes Lampnt and Clarke would have kept us in it and had the euro. At they point mortgage interest rates would have escalated to virtually 20%. It showed the price you really could pay allied to a huge unworkable conglomerate like the EU.
Was the € not introduced in 1999?
Yes we chose to be a part of the common market. It became the EU. The EU decided that we should have open borders. The EU decided that we should give billions each year for them to waste on a gravy train.No. I'm saying the opposite. Some would have you believe that we joined the common market and common market alone, we didn't, we joined the European communities which gave us access to the common market. It's the European communities that became the EU. That's the distinction I'm making.
Yes we chose to be a part of the common market. It became the EU. The EU decided that we should have open borders. The EU decided that we should give billions each year for them to waste on a gravy train.
Yet you make out that ve voted to join the EU.
Yes we chose to be a part of the common market. It became the EU. The EU decided that we should have open borders. The EU decided that we should give billions each year for them to waste on a gravy train.
Yet you make out that ve voted to join the EU.
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