I definitely think that those legally resident in the EU should maintain their current rights or be allowed to claim citizenship within 4 years, or whatever the period of time is. I have Irish citizenship as well but will probably get Italian citizenship as soon as I can do.My missus is threatening to divorce me as I am no longer part of the EU family
Seriously was talking to a Hungarian EU Minister last week who was talking about a EU-type citizenship for those of us resident in EU. Popular in Brussels. Main opposition? The French
Yes you are right. I think I'm right in saying that Villa actually had to release a club statement asking their fans to stop chanting racist songs, about their own players.Yep, the direction of travel has definitely done a U turn. Just look how it’s creeping back into the football terraces at all levels of the English game.
Your statement about "we've come a hell of a long way" is wrong, we are regressing badly.Not dismissing your experience and it’s disgraceful when it happens. We have a long long way to go. Sorry if I gave that impression.
Your statement about "we've come a hell of a long way" is wrong, we are regressing badly.
I was age 0 to 5 in the 70sDo you think it’s as bad now as the 70s?
I was age 0 to 5 in the 70s
ie I don't know. But does that matter? Are you looking for us to pat ourselves on the back because its not as bad as it once was
You were saying me saying we’d come a long way was wrong. We can have both come a long way and regressed recently.
It is wrong, its worse now than any time I remember. Saying that its great news because it may not be as bad as it was in the 70s is just yet another piece of denial & justification, and I'm not sure what it is you are justifying.
It is wrong, its worse now than any time I remember. Saying that its great news because it may not be as bad as it was in the 70s is just yet another piece of denial & justification, and I'm not sure what it is you are justifying.
waffle, semantics, charts, stats, opinions, utter bullshit. The fact you are bringing "statistics" to this is a bit of a joke really. Can you explain to me what counts in those statistics, is there a man going around with a clipboard? Is it only 'reported' incidents? Next time we see, read about, hear about immigrants getting abused we can all hold hands and point at the "statistics" which proves its actually all going to be ok, and if that fails we can say "think yourself lucky you're not in Italy mate". Your stats are meaningless unless you can prove that they capture every incident, which you can't because they don't. Your naivete in even using them as opposed to what you can see with your own eyes is pathetic. You are not living in the real world.Not sure I’ve got the crayons to make this simpler. We are far less racist than we used to be, putting us as one of the least racist countries in the world. This is not negated by the fact we’ve regressed recently. Though the stats I’ve seen suggest there’s been a couple of spikes around the referendum but the overall trend of improvement continues. Maybe not as fast or as far as we’d like but it does.
I’m not sure why you’re desperate to paint everyone as trying to justify racism. I think if something is important it’s worth dealing in facts. Something you’ve been pretty short of in this exchange.
“Yes, undoubtedly racists voted for brexit but to say it was a racist vote is probably as much the cause of problem/the outcome of the vote as anything”
False, racism is the cause of the rise of racism.
100% correct. We are heading right back there very quickly, the evidence is all around and no amount of stupid, pathetic "statistics", wallcharts and whataboutery is going to stop it,-accepting and acknowledging that there is a hideous growing problem growing in England & then changing attitudes is the only way. If you want to ponce about pulling out figures & spewing out platitudes about other countries' then that is actually enabling the problem.For me the 80s were worse than now (I appreciate everyones personal experiences are different), as I remember seeing the blood on the pavement when Dr. Amal Dharry was murdered close to where I lived.
That was the at the beginning of the 80s.
I can remember the ANL marches and one particular one on Hearsall common which kicked off big time, that was in 79, I was just a kid but saw some crazy stuff going on. There was incredible racial tension. We moved away from that and I never thought we'd go back but we are hurtling back there, some people will say I'm being over dramatic but all the signs are there if we're not on our guard.
Anyone who wants to drag the country back to those days is a wrong un.
Do you think it’s as bad now as the 70s?
Spot on. But apparently there’s a chart that proves we don’t have a problem, and Steve says that calling Brexit-fuelled racism out is causing the problem, so just goes to show how far peoples heads are buried in the sand.
Educating people about the rights & wrongs of brexit votes is all fine & dandy. Acknowledging the problem then making sure that people 100% know that racism is disgusting, unacceptable, hideous and cannot & will not be tolerated whatsoever, no matter whats going on in other countries & no matter what the "statistics" show, and calling it our whenever & wherever you see it- I would suggest- would be a better course of action.Never said it wasn’t or couldn’t be (in actual fact I had already indicated in my post it had increased post referendum result) but it’s not that simple, not by a long stretch.
unless you address the causes you won’t control the symptoms. Unfortunately, as I also indicated people with a limited view on the ‘why’s’ are partly to blame for the causes.
I wasn't talking to you, and in any case I disagree, I am telling you right here & right now that a majority of brexit voters had "immigration" and "foreigners" as their number one reason for voting brexit. Not all, obviously, but a majority.nonsense. I said the Brexit vote itself couldn’t be classed as a racist vote and listed the various reasons why people voted that way (because I actually read and listen to other people’s views !)
I also said the result had empowered racists and it needs be stamped out
Read the posts !
Amazed he'd keep his job tbh.There was one guy who worked for me before I left who was very happy to tell anyone who wanted to listen that Muslims were all scruffy and dirty and should only be cleaners
Amazed he'd keep his job tbh.
I wasn't talking to you, and in any case I disagree, I am telling you right here & right now that a majority of brexit voters had "immigration" and "foreigners" as their number one reason for voting brexit. Not all, obviously, but a majority.
I wasn't talking to you, and in any case I disagree, I am telling you right here & right now that a majority of brexit voters had "immigration" and "foreigners" as their number one reason for voting brexit. Not all, obviously, but a majority.
The first poll was run by Lord Ashcroft, if you don't know who he is then google him. Credibility= zero. But anyway thats only one aspect of the overall report. In summary the report says that the biggest reason people voted leave was immigration. Remainers guessed that leavers voted leave because of immigration, but they overestimated the importance of immigration compared to other things, such as your points.You quoted me ! (Out of wider context). Also you are lumping in people’s concern over immigration in one big racist box...it’s ridiculous and I repeat is partially the cause of the problem. I explained in the list of reasons/potential reasons the nuances surrounding the subject yet you’ve ignored them.
Not fully read the attached so may/may not support my argument but appears a sensible analysis
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/up...-People’s-Stated-Reasons-for-Voting-Leave.pdf
The first poll was run by Lord Ashcroft, if you don't know who he is then google him. Credibility= zero. But anyway thats only one aspect of the overall report. In summary the report says that the biggest reason people voted leave was immigration. Remainers guessed that leavers voted leave because of immigration, but they overestimated the importance of immigration compared to other things, such as your points.
But basically it says that the number one reason for voting brexit was immigration, just as I said, with some academic analysis beefing it up.
Except not really, as every source confirms.Rubbish
Except not really, as every source confirms.
and yet as we see every day around us they kind of do, don't they. Or are you another who is in denial that there is a racism problemimmigration concerns don’t have to equate to racist attitudes you lunatic
I guess that all the racist abuse, assaults, chants, violence, islamaphobia that happens every single day is all rubbish too, all made up. People like you are part of the problem, you refuse to accept that there is an issue.The association you make is rubbish
and yet as we see every day around us they kind of do, don't they. Or are you another who is in denial that there is a racism problem
Thats right, we should all pretend its not happening and hope it goes away.I think with people who think like you if there is a problem you will make it worse
Lay it on the line, do you think there is a worsening racism problem?I think with people who think like you if there is a problem you will make it worse
The first poll was run by Lord Ashcroft, if you don't know who he is then google him. Credibility= zero. But anyway thats only one aspect of the overall report. In summary the report says that the biggest reason people voted leave was immigration. Remainers guessed that leavers voted leave because of immigration, but they overestimated the importance of immigration compared to other things, such as your points.
But basically it says that the number one reason for voting brexit was immigration, just as I said, with some academic analysis beefing it up.
Lay it on the line, do you think there is a worsening racism problem?
I said majority, it is a majority, stop the semantics and trying to bend the truth. Your own study that you put up contradicts you.look at the percentages, hardly the massive majority you were projecting it is also taking about UK gaining control of EU immigration (although you’re view is backed up as the standard ‘Remainers’ views on leave voters - figure 2)
Ill repeat (again) that there are various nuances in relation to immigration as to why people had this as a concern....some might be ‘because I don’t like foreigners’ but I bet a majority are due to the others listed
That is not what I asked. I'll try again: "in your opinion does England have a racism problem that is getting worse?"In my experience towards ethnic communities no worse than I’ve previously witnessed
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