The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (129 Viewers)

CCFCSteve · Dec 12, 2020

shmmeee said:
Neither is it us “staying tied to their rules”, if we break from their regulations, we simply go back to third country status WHICH IS WHERE WELL BE ANYWAY WITH NO DEAL. It’s pants on head crazy to shoot yourself in the foot now because in the future you may or may not have to shoot yourself in the foot.

This is spot on Shmmeee and there some noises yesterday which gave me hope that this could be resolved with some political will.

It will be the mechanism for ‘punishment’ for divergence which is the tricky bit. Hopefully they can agree

edit- the below is plus VDLs comments yesterday is what gave me a tiny bit of hope they could both solve the issue (ie feels like the resolution mechanism is the main challenge not the underlying issue if that makes sense). You’ll like the final two comments, made me laugh

Ps we have apparently agreed to non regression clauses but accept times change. I actually believe we will stay ahead on environmental standards (see plans re: farming subs compared to CAP)

CCFCSteve · Dec 12, 2020

clint van damme said:
To be honest Steve my assessment of the statement by both companies regarding shut downs and closures wasn't based on the media it was based on dealings I've had with both companies.

Sorry, i was just making a flippant/light hearted comment about you reading Tory media...couldn’t resist, it’s the child in me

skybluetony176 · Dec 12, 2020

dubed said:
Can't wait for Jan 1st and the EU 25% tariff (plus vat) to be removed from US goods. I have a Led Zep pinball on the way, to land Jan 1st onwards.

Won’t you have the WTO tariff (plus VAT) instead?

Grendel · Dec 12, 2020

Astute said:
Because of Brexit? Are the other EU plants closing because of Brexit?

No Honda closure has zilch to do with Brexit

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

Does the fact Japan now has a trade deal with the EU have any bearing at all ,on any Japanese entity operating out of UK?

Deleted member 4439 · Dec 12, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Won’t you have the WTO tariff (plus VAT) instead?

No tariff from Jan 1st - rates already published on Gov UK.

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

wingy said:
Does the fact Japan now has a trade deal with the EU have any bearing at all ,on any Japanese entity operating out of UK?

Not forgetting Nissan has relationship with Renault , possibly other marriages like that exist with others?

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

Of course vauxhall is French now so no issue there unless they selfishly move employment on nationalistic ground's.
So just jaguar to form a marriage really.
Usually means exportation of Jobs historically.

Grendel · Dec 12, 2020

wingy said:
Not forgetting Nissan has relationship with Renault , possibly other marriages like that exist with others?

Well Nissan is likely to close though it’s denying it and I think it’s pretty safe to say France would not build renaults here regardless of EU membership - it’s always been a nationalist country regarding protecting its own workforce first

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 12, 2020

Grendel said:
I think it’s pretty safe to say France would not build renaults here regardless of EU membership

They built them here before.

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

Grendel said:
Well Nissan is likely to close though it’s denying it and I think it’s pretty safe to say France would not build renaults here regardless of EU membership - it’s always been a nationalist country regarding protecting its own workforce first

Do you think having a national strategy that maintened a significant manufacturing capacity across two companies possibly others too may have been More successful than our approach over the year's , thinking all the buyouts, takeovers here?

Grendel · Dec 12, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
They built them here before.

And removed them

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

Brings another question , has the UK ever had an acquisitions policy like say France/Germany ?

Grendel · Dec 12, 2020

wingy said:
Brings another question , has the UK ever had an acquisitions policy like say France/Germany ?

What do you mean by acquisition policy?

Sick Boy · Dec 12, 2020

What do you all reckon the chances of a deal are?

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

Grendel said:
What do you mean by acquisition policy?

Encouragement, inducements ,like beneficial financing rates or Grant's ,maybe land for expansion .
Browns lane was kind of one, Whitley seems to be another example .
Have inducements like that given Jaguar enough edge to think of putting resources saved,then gained here into buyouts?
The current evidence says no I think.
Have either of those Gov'ts stood in the way of mergers or takeovers ?have we?

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

Sick Boy said:
What do you all reckon the chances of a deal are?

Who knows with the original flip flop man ?
For all the talk and pessimism I think he will cave.

clint van damme · Dec 12, 2020

Grendel said:
No Honda closure has zilch to do with Brexit

I don't agree no matter what they said. I don't buy their official statement, same way I didn't buy JLRs when they said the shutdowns they were putting in place were down to Brexit

wingy · Dec 12, 2020

wingy said:
Do you think having a national strategy that maintened a significant manufacturing capacity across two companies possibly others too may have been More successful than our approach over the year's , thinking all the buyouts, takeovers here?

I think it's recognised we abandoned our manufacturing base in the UK, Gov'ts of either skin permitted this to happen.

clint van damme · Dec 12, 2020

wingy said:
I think it's recognised we abandoned our manufacturing base in the UK, Gov'ts of either skin permitted this to happen.

That's right. Everyone blames Thatcher for starting it nut it had started even before she was elected.
But I'm mystified as to how little it's been considered at the moment especially given the focus on fishing.

Let's be honest rhetoric like protecting our waters and sending in the navy plays great with the Tories core support but what a hill to die on, an industry that actually contributes very little to the nation.

CCFCSteve · Dec 12, 2020

clint van damme said:
That's right. Everyone blames Thatcher for starting it nut it had started even before she was elected.
But I'm mystified as to how little it's been considered at the moment especially given the focus on fishing.

Let's be honest rhetoric like protecting our waters and sending in the navy plays great with the Tories core support but what a hill to die on, an industry that actually contributes very little to the nation.

Youre right Clint, fishing irrelevant in relation to GDP on both sides. However, Macron is shitting it because of an election in 18 months so wants to look tough and Johnson needs to keep the ERG/total sovereignty at all costs lot happy. It’s a principle point on both sides

If that’s the only issue remaining it can be sorted I think. Bigger issue is this level playing field in future problem....crazy really as neither side knows what the future holds. Surely there’s a fudge available ?!!!

Ps reading Tory media, sticking up for thatcher...something you want to tell us mate ?!!

clint van damme · Dec 12, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
Youre right Clint, fishing irrelevant in relation to GDP on both sides. However, Macron is shitting it because of an election in 18 months so wants to look tough and Johnson needs to keep the ERG/total sovereignty at all costs lot happy. It’s a principle point on both sides

If that’s the only issue remaining it can be sorted I think. Bigger issue is this level playing field in future problem....crazy really as neither side knows what the future holds. Surely there’s a fudge available ?!!!

Ps reading Tory media, sticking up for thatcher...something you want to tell us mate ?!!

But as pointed out we can walk away from the level playing field caveat at any time in the future and be where we will be in a few weeks under a no deal.

Why burn all the bridges now?

skybluetony176 · Dec 12, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
Youre right Clint, fishing irrelevant in relation to GDP on both sides. However, Macron is shitting it because of an election in 18 months so wants to look tough and Johnson needs to keep the ERG/total sovereignty at all costs lot happy. It’s a principle point on both sides

If that’s the only issue remaining it can be sorted I think. Bigger issue is this level playing field in future problem....crazy really as neither side knows what the future holds. Surely there’s a fudge available ?!!!

Ps reading Tory media, sticking up for thatcher...something you want to tell us mate ?!!

We’re having the best standards in the world once free of the EU, said Boris. So what’s the issue? Standards are a baseline that’s all, if we’ve got world beating standards it’s never going to be an issue for us.

CCFCSteve · Dec 12, 2020

clint van damme said:
But as pointed out we can walk away from the level playing field caveat at any time in the future and be where we will be in a few weeks under a no deal.

Why burn all the bridges now?

I agree. Think I said something similar in a response to a reply to shmmeee. Reading between lines it’s the ‘punishment’ mechanism and who decides which appears to be the sticking points

skybluetony176 · Dec 12, 2020

I keep hearing that we should have a no deal, punish the EU and we’ll hold all the cards. Again. Same people saying it that said we hold all the cards 4 years ago because of German cars, French wine and cheese waffle waffle waffle.
I’ll state this now. Hard Brexit will weaken our hand. Our strongest hand is the one in front of us now and we don’t have any aces up our sleeve. We’re in a damage limitation situation and the whole world knows it. Deep down inside I suspect even the hardest brexiteers know it.

CCFCSteve · Dec 12, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
We’re having the best standards in the world once free of the EU, said Boris. So what’s the issue? Standards are a baseline that’s all, if we’ve got world beating standards it’s never going to be an issue for us.

We’ve agreed non regression clauses though which I think is correct. By the sounds of it we’ll be ahead on environmental standards in the coming years and my understanding is we’re pretty good on employment rights (min wage etc) compared to many EU nations.

It is purely down to control. Should we be saying they should improve their environmental standards in future to maintain trade with us ?! Of course not. None of us know the detail of either sides positions but in the extreme, what happens if the EU changed some rules which we couldn’t do politically or socially (I can’t think of any off the top of my head - it’s Saturday !) and some of our companies exports get put on punitive tariffs ?! It just doesn’t feel quite fair.

I hope there is a solution though, they just both need to think of a mechanism and adjudicator that they can both sell to their respective audiences.

CCFCSteve · Dec 12, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
I keep hearing that we should have a no deal, punish the EU and we’ll hold all the cards. Again. Same people saying it that said we hold all the cards 4 years ago because of German cars, French wine and cheese waffle waffle waffle.
I’ll state this now. Hard Brexit will weaken our hand. Our strongest hand is the one in front of us now and we don’t have any aces up our sleeve. We’re in a damage limitation situation and the whole world knows it. Deep down inside I suspect even the hardest brexiteers know it.

yeah, that’s crazy talk, a no deal is not good for us or our negotiating position with EU in future or other nations. Don’t doubt there isn’t huge pressure from certain EU countries and their manufacturers to get a deal as well though. Whether it’s enough to outweigh the ideological views/stance I don’t know.

clint van damme · Dec 12, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
We’ve agreed non regression clauses though which I think is correct. By the sounds of it we’ll be ahead on environmental standards in the coming years and my understanding is we’re pretty good on employment rights (min wage etc) compared to many EU nations.

It is purely down to control. Should we be saying they should improve their environmental standards in future to maintain trade with us ?! Of course not. None of us know the detail of either sides positions but in the extreme, what happens if the EU changed some rules which we couldn’t do politically or socially (I can’t think of any off the top of my head - it’s Saturday !) and some of our companies exports get put on punitive tariffs ?! It just doesn’t feel quite fair.

I hope there is a solution though, they just both need to think of a mechanism and adjudicator that they can both sell to their respective audiences.

It's not going to be difficult to have high environmental standards when there's no industry!!

Ian1779 · Dec 12, 2020

Sick Boy said:
What do you all reckon the chances of a deal are?

None - think it was the plan all along. He’ll blame the EU, Labour, Immigrants, the SNP and people will buy it.

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 12, 2020

Grendel said:
Well Nissan is likely to close though it’s denying it and I think it’s pretty safe to say France would not build renaults here regardless of EU membership - it’s always been a nationalist country regarding protecting its own workforce first

There was a republican on one of the tweet conversations speaking to someone from France. They said France wasn’t a socialist country complaining that Biden was a socialist and he would take their country to hell lol

clint van damme · Dec 12, 2020

state of this c**t

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 12, 2020

clint van damme said:
state of this c**t

Yep she called it

skybluetony176 · Dec 12, 2020

clint van damme said:
state of this c**t

Brexiteer in not done his homework shocker.

Astute · Dec 12, 2020

wingy said:
Does the fact Japan now has a trade deal with the EU have any bearing at all ,on any Japanese entity operating out of UK?

Of course. They are now pulling out of Europe. But some will try and make a story out of it.

Just like trying to make out our Navy will murder EU fishermen when doing the same job they presently do whilst protecting EU fishermen.

Astute · Dec 12, 2020

clint van damme said:
That's right. Everyone blames Thatcher for starting it nut it had started even before she was elected.
But I'm mystified as to how little it's been considered at the moment especially given the focus on fishing.

Let's be honest rhetoric like protecting our waters and sending in the navy plays great with the Tories core support but what a hill to die on, an industry that actually contributes very little to the nation.

Why are you mentioning sending the navy in?

Don't you know what already happens? The same naval boats are at sea for most of the year protecting mainly EU trawlers that fish in UK water. The only change could be nationalities allowed to fish in our water. But I can't see this changing in the near future.

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