The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (40 Viewers)

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 27, 2020

Sick Boy said:
There’s a small difference though in that one side voted for the whole process to get a better deal.

Yes, but, if the UK government has well and truly sold the fishing industry out, surely the Irish and French fishing industries would be happy. But they’re not, and both sides are saying they capitulated to the other - which doesn’t make sense. Compromises have been made by both sides.

Well, depends how you look at it. They get 25% more than they would have within the EU - over a 5 and a half year transition. Then fishing quotas are negotiated between UK-EU in the same way the EU negotiates with Norway. Is

The only way they could control 100% of the catch in UK water is with no deal. In theory, this is good for the UK fishing community. However, you have extra tariffs on those catches as well as even more paperwork to do - so it’s not a good thing.

Sturgeon was rightly mocked for saying Scottish fishing had been ‘sold out’ as if she’s anti-EU now. A lot of Remainers I know are disingenuously showing concern for the fishing industry.

Frankly, fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP, it clearly isn’t worth risking a ‘no deal’ scenario for.

skybluetony176 · Dec 27, 2020

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Yes, but, if the UK government has well and truly sold the fishing industry out, surely the Irish and French fishing industries would be happy. But they’re not, and both sides are saying they capitulated to the other - which doesn’t make sense. Compromises have been made by both sides.

Well, depends how you look at it. They get 25% more than they would have within the EU - over a 5 and a half year transition. Then fishing quotas are negotiated between UK-EU in the same way the EU negotiates with Norway. Is

The only way they could control 100% of the catch in UK water is with no deal. In theory, this is good for the UK fishing community. However, you have extra tariffs on those catches as well as even more paperwork to do - so it’s not a good thing.

Sturgeon was rightly mocked for saying Scottish fishing had been ‘sold out’ as if she’s anti-EU now. A lot of Remainers I know are disingenuously showing concern for the fishing industry.

Frankly, fishing makes up 0.1% of our GDP, it clearly isn’t worth risking a ‘no deal’ scenario for.

Only one side sold out. You just have to refer back to what Boris and Gove are on the record saying repeatedly during the leave campaign compared to what they’ve delivered. There’s no resemblance to what they promised to what they delivered. A lot of families have borrowed millions to buy new trawlers ahead of the expected 100% control bonanza they were expected. Bet they had a real shitty Xmas.

shmmeee · Dec 27, 2020

Honestly don’t care about fish. Our economy is three quarters services.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 27, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Only one side sold out. You just have to refer back to what Boris and Gove are on the record saying repeatedly during the leave campaign compared to what they’ve delivered. There’s no resemblance to what they promised to what they delivered. A lot of families have borrowed millions to buy new trawlers ahead of the expected 100% control bonanza they were expected. Bet they had a real shitty Xmas.

Again, finishing communities in the EU disagree with you - they feel the EU has let them down in the same way our fishing communities feel let down by our government.

You raise a good point there - our fishing fleet probably isn’t even big enough to take advantage of having 100% control of fishing waters. So a transition period makes sense.

5 and a half years is not a long time either, mind you.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 27, 2020

Astute said:
Just like buying a house.

Costs a lot of money to start with. You then have extra costs of upkeep. But the further down the line the more beneficial it becomes. You can choose what it looks like. You can expand it. And you always have the choice of going back to renting if you want.

Let’s hope so. Because if nothing fundamentally changes it has just caused division and cost a ton of money.

David O'Day · Dec 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Honestly don’t care about fish. Our economy is three quarters services.

I care about fishermen as they are people who have been fucked over and many forced into poverty.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 27, 2020

David O'Day said:
I care about fishermen as they are people who have been fucked over and many forced into poverty.

A lot of the jobs in my missus’ neck of the woods are tied to the fishing industry. As close as a Scottish region came to supporting Brexit because of that alone

Skybluefaz · Dec 27, 2020

Seems a silly oversight not negotiating exemptions for musicians.

clint van damme · Dec 28, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
Seems a silly oversight not negotiating exemptions for musicians.

Saw a thread yesterday from a small promoter who said they'd now struggle to put small bands on stage in Europe.

Shame if that's turns out to be the case.

stupot07 · Dec 28, 2020

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

shmmeee · Dec 28, 2020

stupot07 said:
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Stupid ideologues.

skybluetony176 · Dec 28, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
Seems a silly oversight not negotiating exemptions for musicians.

They’ll be more. Just look at the withdrawal agreement, this bunch of chancers are way out of their depth and get shafted without realising it at the time and then it’s months after the event before they understand what they’ve agreed.
If you ask me they’ve deliberately ran the clock down to avoid proper parliamentary scrutiny.

Astute · Dec 28, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Let’s hope so. Because if nothing fundamentally changes it has just caused division and cost a ton of money.

Of course things will change.

The one problem I do see is what rules we have signed up to which make future deals more difficult. This will continue until future talks are completed.

As you will know I have called the majority of this shitfest correctly. The next part of what I saw was us getting closer to the EU again. They want close ties with us. We want close ties with the EU. Maybe continue to pay money into the system. Keep everything aligned. Things eventually smoothed out to be similar as they are presently. Only out in name.

shmmeee · Dec 28, 2020

Astute said:
Of course things will change.

The one problem I do see is what rules we have signed up to which make future deals more difficult. This will continue until future talks are completed.

As you will know I have called the majority of this shitfest correctly. The next part of what I saw was us getting closer to the EU again. They want close ties with us. We want close ties with the EU. Maybe continue to pay money into the system. Keep everything aligned. Things eventually smoothed out to be similar as they are presently. Only out in name.

Youve got to assume the gravity of Europe will pull us closer. I can see future governments having rejoining schemes like Eurasmus and Galileo as part of their manifestos. If not full single market access.

skybluetony176 · Dec 28, 2020

No surprise. Given it’s the deal Boris “man of his word” Johnson stood up at a DUP conference to a fanfare and declared “no British PM should ever accept.

skybluetony176 · Dec 28, 2020

They’re shaking the magic money tree again. To try and quell the fires of throwing the fishing industry under the Brexit bus

Redirect Notice

skybluetony176 · Dec 28, 2020

And how is this taking back control?
“In fact, the 1,255-page text says “temporary” sanctions can be imposed in many areas – not only fish, but subsidy controls, regulatory cooperation, law enforcement coordination and the return of cultural property – where tribunals are specifically barred.”

Boris Johnson’s claim to have defeated threat of EU tariffs if UK breaches fishing deal rubbished by experts

Brussels can inflict sanctions affecting other goods, services, transport, intellectual property and energy, Institute for Government concludes

www.google.co.uk

skybluetony176 · Dec 28, 2020

And who put Pritti Patel in charge of the calculator?

Brexit deal was delayed by a last-minute blunder over fishing quotas

The treaty text had to be redrafted after three per cent of fish quotas went missing in the negotiations

www.google.co.uk

David O'Day · Dec 28, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
No surprise. Given it’s the deal Boris “man of his word” Johnson stood up at a DUP conference to a fanfare and declared “no British PM should ever accept.

But some weirdo on this thread said foster loved the deal. Please don't tell me he was lying?

skybluetony176 · Dec 28, 2020

David O'Day said:
But some weirdo on this thread said foster loved the deal. Please don't tell me he was lying?

Really? Who?

David O'Day · Dec 28, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Really? Who?

Astute · Dec 29, 2020

shmmeee said:
Youve got to assume the gravity of Europe will pull us closer. I can see future governments having rejoining schemes like Eurasmus and Galileo as part of their manifestos. If not full single market access.

You got it

My reasoning has always come from comparing the average voter, the average Tory plan and the average Labour plan.

The average voter wants what is best for them. They say about being happy to pay more in tax but put their x elsewhere. The average Labour Party wants what is best for the poor/lower paid. The Tories announce their best parts, keep quiet on those the majority wouldn't like and expand on those that other parties have where the voters might not like and make them sound worse. There goes your policies and party political broadcasts.

The Tories won't be shouting about our future with the EU. They will condition the voters first. Once the majority wants what their aims are they will happen.

Let's go back to this last minute deal and it being planned in advance. Within a few days 27 countries got through a lot of paperwork and agreed to it. Does anyone really believe this paperwork was sorted and agreed in a few days? I am sure it was planned well in advance. Macron even put his reputation on the line in France and got exactly what he stated he would. We got conditioned to expect the worst and at the last minute got a deal.

So the conditioning will continue. The Tories will continue to let us know what their aims are. We will get most of what they say but will compromise in other areas. But we will be happy because we get what we want. Eventually we will have the vast majority of what we had previously but not in name. It will be known as 'a special deal'

skybluetony176 · Dec 29, 2020

Project fear is project here for this poor fella.

skybluetony176 · Dec 30, 2020

More holes appearing

Brexit: UK sausage makers face EU export ban

Meat producers seek clarity over rules that mean some products cannot be exported to the EU under the trade deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

skybluetony176 · Dec 30, 2020

'Boris is a kipper': fury and frustration at Brexit fishing deal in Brixham

Many at the harbour in the Devon town are concerned that their industry has been sold short

www.google.co.uk

Fuck me Boris got sewn up like a kipper

“Anton Bailey: ‘The Europeans always get what they want.
His main gripe is that under the deal EU boats will be able to operate up to six miles off the UK coast while British boats will have to remain 12 miles off the beaches of mainland Europe. “How is that fair? We’re not allowed inside their 12, I don’t see why they should be allowed up to our six.”

Skybluefaz · Dec 30, 2020

Arse

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 30, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
Arse

He's right on one level. Unfortunately, voting down the deal would mean even more of what he's worried about, and a harder task to reverse it.

Skybluefaz · Dec 30, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
He's right on one level. Unfortunately, voting down the deal would mean even more of what he's worried about, and a harder task to reverse it.

Platitudes are worth exactly fuck all at the moment though. Would he rather no deal?

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 30, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
Platitudes are worth exactly fuck all at the moment though. Would he rather no deal?

That's the thing isn't it. No deal would be catastrophic for what he hopes for. Therefore it's grit teeth and vote this deal through, and hope to sort out the mess at some stage in the future, when the mess is at least resolvable!

Astute · Dec 30, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
He's right on one level. Unfortunately, voting down the deal would mean even more of what he's worried about, and a harder task to reverse it.

All he has done is what most modern day politicians do. Go against the opposition even if it isn't the best thing to do.

He had his chance as leader of Labour to try and shape what happened with Brexit. But he just sat on the fence for as long as he could. It gave the Tories an easy time. But it wasn't a surprise as he often stated he wanted out of the EU before the referendum.

Skybluefaz · Dec 30, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
That's the thing isn't it. No deal would be catastrophic for what he hopes for. Therefore it's grit teeth and vote this deal through, and hope to sort out the mess at some stage in the future, when the mess is at least resolvable!

Does just seem like he's trying to get one back after the suspension episode.

fernandopartridge · Dec 30, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
Platitudes are worth exactly fuck all at the moment though. Would he rather no deal?

He abstained. The reality is less would you want no deal or this deal, more would you rather be seen to support the abysmal deal put forward by the Tories.

I find it quite bizarre that forensic genius Starmer whipped the party to vote for it when a) the tories have a huge majority, and b) the actual draft legislation only appeared a day or two ago. His first critique (if he can manage a bit of opposition) will just be beaten down with a "well you voted for the deal" and they'd be spot on.

Skybluefaz · Dec 30, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
He abstained. The reality is less would you want no deal or this deal, more would you rather be seen to support the abysmal deal put forward by the Tories.

I find it quite bizarre that forensic genius Starmer whipped the party to vote for it when a) the tories have a huge majority, and b) the actual draft legislation only appeared a day or two ago. His first critique (if he can manage a bit of opposition) will just be beaten down with a "well you voted for the deal" and they'd be spot on.

If Labour abstained it would still look like they aren't accepting of the referendum and they'd be hit with that stick again. This I believe is an attempt to win those red wall voters back.

Grendel · Dec 30, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
If Labour abstained it would still look like they aren't accepting of the referendum and they'd be hit with that stick again. This I believe is an attempt to win those red wall voters back.

Didn't they abstain from the Tier strategy?

Ian1779 · Dec 30, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
He abstained. The reality is less would you want no deal or this deal, more would you rather be seen to support the abysmal deal put forward by the Tories.

I find it quite bizarre that forensic genius Starmer whipped the party to vote for it when a) the tories have a huge majority, and b) the actual draft legislation only appeared a day or two ago. His first critique (if he can manage a bit of opposition) will just be beaten down with a "well you voted for the deal" and they'd be spot on.

Starmer just confirmed today that he is actually fucking useless, and still fails to see 2 overwhelmingly huge flaws in his approach. Firstly - he was a chief component in the PV vote campaign, and that will be dragged up whenever they feel like exposing his hypocrisy if he tries to puback on parts of the new deal
going forward. Secondly - as you have quite rightly said, he will have to own this deal too - he backed it.

If he had at least stuck to form by abstaining - he could legitimately detach himself from the deal. The PV thing will never go away - he could alleviate this by publicly apologising for trying to circumvent democracy in 2019.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (40 Viewers)

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