The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

Evo1883 · Mar 28, 2021

The people in Spain, had 3 years to get permanent residency ...it's not really about brexit is it ...more ignoring their own responsibility which is a silly thing to do... having just looked into it it's around 500 people.

You'd expect the same response for ignoring your responsibilities over here

It's actually a non story after looking into it a bit more

99% of expats are fine

stupot07 · Mar 28, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Do as you please , its an small online room full of people getting themselves worked up about something that can't be changed .

Hence the idea that moving on was probably for the best

I expect this thread will still be thriving in 2030 and the same 5 people will be shouting angrily about things, anything , small or large to take some form of comfort

You're getting yourself worked up about people getting worked up, which is ironic.

You could just ignore the thread and let people just get on with venting if they choose to do so. If they take some form of comfort from it, let them carry on. We all need a release valve. There's plenty of other threats to read. If I don't like the subject I dont read them. Simples.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 28, 2021

stupot07 said:
There's plenty of other threats to read.

To the environment, to liberty...

Evo1883 · Mar 28, 2021

stupot07 said:
You're getting yourself worked up about people getting worked up, which is ironic.

You could just ignore the thread and let people just get on with venting if they choose to do so. If they take some form of comfort from it, let them carry on. We all need a release valve. There's plenty of other threats to read. If I don't like the subject I dont read them. Simples.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Lol , at no point during this have I been wound up

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 28, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Do as you please , its an small online room full of people getting themselves worked up about something that can't be changed .

Hence the idea that moving on was probably for the best

I expect this thread will still be thriving in 2030 and the same 5 people will be shouting angrily about things, anything , small or large to take some form of comfort

We had people doing that since we joined in the 70's - not letting it go. Why didn't Farage etc just 'let it go' that we were part of the EU instead of waging a crusade against it for a couple of decades?

Grendel · Mar 28, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
We had people doing that since we joined in the 70's - not letting it go. Why didn't Farage etc just 'let it go' that we were part of the EU instead of waging a crusade against it for a couple of decades?

Guess everyone trying to get away from the iron curtain should have just let it go as well

Evo1883 · Mar 28, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
We had people doing that since we joined in the 70's - not letting it go. Why didn't Farage etc just 'let it go' that we were part of the EU instead of waging a crusade against it for a couple of decades?

Like I said , carry on .

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 28, 2021

Grendel said:
Guess everyone trying to get away from the iron curtain should have just let it go as well

So I assume you're therefore pro independence for Scotland, Wales and the reunification of Ireland. Oh, and independence for Cornwall. They're all saying that being part of the UK is terrible and things would be much better if they weren't. And these arguments have in many cases been going on centuries, so I guess if they feel so fervently about it they must be right. No downsides, just sunlit uplands all the way...

Grendel · Mar 28, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So I assume you're therefore pro independence for Scotland, Wales and the reunification of Ireland. Oh, and independence for Cornwall. They're all saying that being part of the UK is terrible and things would be much better if they weren't. And these arguments have in many cases been going on centuries, so I guess if they feel so fervently about it they must be right. No downsides, just sunlit uplands all the way...

I am if they vote for it in a once in a generation referendum absolutely

Skybluefaz · Mar 28, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Lol , at no point during this have I been wound up

wingy · Mar 28, 2021

Hanseatic League

The first European union?

www.bbc.co.uk

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 28, 2021

Grendel said:
I am if they vote for it in a once in a generation referendum absolutely

Would you rather have micro states of England, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland and a united Ireland outside of the EU or a fully intact UK within it?

Grendel · Mar 28, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Would you rather have micro states of England, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland and a united Ireland outside of the EU or a fully intact UK within it?

I want the people to decide and given Scotland have had several referendums while in the EU and Sturgeon has stated she’d have demanded one even if the referendum was reversed I don’t get the Eu reference

As for Cornwall well I guess up to them. Unlike you I don’t believe the iron fist of a superstate should crush freedoms

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 28, 2021

Grendel said:
I want the people to decide and given Scotland have had several referendums while in the EU and Sturgeon has stated she’d have demanded one even if the referendum was reversed I don’t get the Eu reference

As for Cornwall well I guess up to them. Unlike you I don’t believe the iron fist of a superstate should crush freedoms

Which I never said of course.

Evo1883 · Mar 28, 2021

The North are also pushing for independence btw , so we have Scotland, Wales, the North, Cornwall and there's local rumours that tile hill want to vote on whether to become independent from Coventry , and my street want to remain in Coventry so we will be a rogue state within tile hill

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 28, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The North are also pushing for independence btw , so we have Scotland, Wales, the North, Cornwall and there's local rumours that tile hill want to vote on whether to become independent from Coventry , and mybstreet want to remain in Coventry so we will be a rogue state within tile hill

At some point we have to do as Sturgeon herself advocated and 'not throw our toys out of the pram and threaten to leave every time something happens we don't like'

Skybluefaz · Mar 28, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The North are also pushing for independence btw , so we have Scotland, Wales, the North, Cornwall and there's local rumours that tile hill want to vote on whether to become independent from Coventry , and my street want to remain in Coventry so we will be a rogue state within tile hill

Just googled northen independance cos I thought you were taking the piss. The world is going mad, half expect house Lannister to throw its hat in the ring for a shot at power soon.

Evo1883 · Mar 28, 2021

Skybluefaz said:
Just googled northen independance cos I thought you were taking the piss. The world is going mad, half expect house Lannister to throw its hat in the ring for a shot at power soon.

Haha , we will be back to viking Britain maps before you know it

shmmeee · Mar 29, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The people in Spain, had 3 years to get permanent residency ...it's not really about brexit is it ...more ignoring their own responsibility which is a silly thing to do... having just looked into it it's around 500 people.

You'd expect the same response for ignoring your responsibilities over here

It's actually a non story after looking into it a bit more

99% of expats are fine

“Actually, I’ve been doing research and apparently you only use ten percent of your brain so the massive head trauma suffered from driving a metal spike into my skull is a bit of a non-story really”

From a psychological perspective, watching reasonably sensible people like you and Steve doing mental gymnastics to avoid admitting you were taken for a ride is fascinating.

Evo1883 · Mar 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
“Actually, I’ve been doing research and apparently you only use ten percent of your brain so the massive head trauma suffered from driving a metal spike into my skull is a bit of a non-story really”

From a psychological perspective, watching reasonably sensible people like you and Steve doing mental gymnastics to avoid admitting you were taken for a ride is fascinating.

Give me a break shmmeee ..I've already told you before how my mind works

CCFCSteve · Mar 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
“Actually, I’ve been doing research and apparently you only use ten percent of your brain so the massive head trauma suffered from driving a metal spike into my skull is a bit of a non-story really”

From a psychological perspective, watching reasonably sensible people like you and Steve doing mental gymnastics to avoid admitting you were taken for a ride is fascinating.

Ive explained the reasons why I’ve voted leave shmmeee, also that it was a toss up right up to the week of the vote. It ended up being more of an emotional decision after reading about previous referenda where countries had been forced to vote again or treaties were pushed through under a different name/guise (whether subconsciously I thought that might happen to us, who knows). This felt totally undemocratic to me

Just because I’m not Remains stereotypical Leaver doesn’t mean I was tricked into it. Id imagine I probably did far more research into the vote than many and believe it or not, actually voted in a way that probably wasn’t best for me personally but felt it would ultimately be the right decision.

One thing I didn’t know at the time was what trade deal we would get. I would personally have liked to remain closer to EU/frictionless trade but it quickly became apparent there was no way they were going to allow that without total freedom of movement (and tying us into their rules/regs) which was one of the reasons many voted to leave

Has my vote popped into my head most days since the referendum, yes...the last thing I want is to make peoples lives worse. However, has the conduct of the EU during negotiations and since re-enforced my views, yes also

Ps reasonably sensible...thanks...you’ve not seen me on a night out then

shmmeee · Mar 29, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Ive explained the reasons why I’ve voted leave shmmeee, also that it was a toss up right up to the week of the vote. It ended up being more of an emotional decision after reading about previous referenda where countries had been forced to vote again or treaties were pushed through under a different name/guise (whether subconsciously I thought that might happen to us, who knows). This felt totally undemocratic to me

Just because I’m not Remains stereotypical Leaver doesn’t mean I was tricked into it. Id imagine I probably did far more research into the vote than many and believe it or not, actually voted in a way that probably wasn’t best for me personally but felt it would ultimately be the right decision.

One thing I didn’t know at the time was what trade deal we would get. I would personally have liked to remain closer to EU/frictionless trade but it quickly became apparent there was no way they were going to allow that without total freedom of movement (and tying us into their rules/regs) which was one of the reasons many voted to leave

Has my vote popped into my head most days since the vote, yes...the last thing I want is to make peoples lives worse. However, has the conduct of the EU during negotiations and since re-enforced my view, yes also

Ps reasonably sensible...thanks...you’ve not seen me on a night out then

I just like poking you Steve. But the constant “give it time” and stuff, there’s got to be a point where you accept the economic damage done. It’s not even a controversial point, only the looniest Brexiters ever said it would make us richer.

Fair enough if it was an emotional reaction, own that. But don’t be surprised if others whose lives are materially worse don’t think your feelings should matter less than their reality.

Brexit will make us poorer, that’s just basic economics. It will disrupt the lives of ex pats, that’s just basic border control. Constantly pretending we just haven’t seen the benefits yet is dishonest. We know there aren’t any. There isn’t even a single major Brexiter still pretending that. It’s an emotional reaction and the fact you’re happy out should be all the justification you need.

Evo1883 · Mar 29, 2021

There's a popular phrase for this isn't there ? (reference to a few pages back)

CCFCSteve · Mar 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
I just like poking you Steve. But the constant “give it time” and stuff, there’s got to be a point where you accept the economic damage done. It’s not even a controversial point, only the looniest Brexiters ever said it would make us richer.

Fair enough if it was an emotional reaction, own that. But don’t be surprised if others whose lives are materially worse don’t think your feelings should matter less than their reality.

Brexit will make us poorer, that’s just basic economics. It will disrupt the lives of ex pats, that’s just basic border control. Constantly pretending we just haven’t seen the benefits yet is dishonest. We know there aren’t any. There isn’t even a single major Brexiter still pretending that. It’s an emotional reaction and the fact you’re happy out should be all the justification you need.

haha, I know you’re just poking a bit. My point has never been ‘just wait and see the economic benefits roll in’. It’s more ‘to compare trade (imports and exports) now a couple of months into a totally new trading relationship and in the middle of a pandemic is crazy’ (and disingenuous). There will no doubt be some kind of negative economic impact m, as everyone was told numberous times during the campaign but it will be nowhere near what like Adonis’ example it suggesting.

But I am also trying to remind people who voted Remain that Leave voters didn’t vote on an economic basis. This is hard for Remain voters to understand/accept as it was their main reason for voting to stay. See various polling. I’m not saying either are right or wrong but people just can’t get their heads around

ps what does wind me up is when people say to ‘own your decision’. I do and always have done and tried to explain why I and many others voted to leave. It feels like this is only said though to stop any counter views/opinions, many of which are valid. For example some Remainers look on in horror at the EU conduct (during negotiations and since), others pretend that it’s ok and it’s all our fault anyway. Remainers, quite understandably respond with ‘yes, but look at the economic damage’...again without appreciating that this is not Leavers main concern/reason for voting...and won’t be unless it impacts them directly.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 29, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
My point has never been ‘just wait and see the economic benefits roll in’. It’s more ‘to compare trade (imports and exports) now a couple of months into a totally new trading relationship and in the middle of a pandemic is crazy’ (and disingenuous).

While I do agree with you to an extent, I do fear that the pandemic will be used as a free pass, that the mantra will be used rather forcefully that Brexit would have been all sunny uplands if it hadn't been for that pesky Covid.

skybluetony176 · Mar 29, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
While I do agree with you to an extent, I do fear that the pandemic will be used as a free pass, that the mantra will be used rather forcefully that Brexit would have been all sunny uplands if it hadn't been for that pesky Covid.

We’ve seen already that the pandemic is the presumed saviour of Brexit with the vaccine. Problem is that A) we haven’t done anything that we could have done as members B) no one voted leave in 2016 on the expectation of a pandemic arriving meaning a better vaccine rollout which it never would have meant in the first place as per point A.

clint van damme · Mar 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
“Actually, I’ve been doing research and apparently you only use ten percent of your brain so the massive head trauma suffered from driving a metal spike into my skull is a bit of a non-story really”

From a psychological perspective, watching reasonably sensible people like you and Steve doing mental gymnastics to avoid admitting you were taken for a ride is fascinating.

Phineas Gage

CCFCSteve · Mar 29, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
We’ve seen already that the pandemic is the presumed saviour of Brexit with the vaccine. Problem is that A) we haven’t done anything that we could have done as members B) no one voted leave in 2016 on the expectation of a pandemic arriving meaning a better vaccine rollout which it never would have meant in the first place as per point A.

a) I mentioned previously that you might be correct on a legal basis Tony but there is no way we would’ve been allowed to have gone our own away on vaccines and delivered a successful roll out whilst other member states struggled. They are trying to stop this even though we’ve left FFS ! See the four countries (Germany, France, Italy and one other) having to back away from direct talks with AZ where I understand a deal was progressing/agreed in principle, before the EU the dragged their feet whilst renegotiating/trying to get 27 member sign off.

b) again, of course nobody knew about the pandemic. However, this is almost a perfect example (if it wasn’t going to lead to lives lost) of the slow, bureaucratic institution overreaching it’s position (should be just a trading bloc), that many in this country were worried about.

In theory I liked/couldn’t disagree with what the EU was trying to do ie using combined buying power and then ensuring equal/fair distribution to stop EU states vaccine nationalism. However, the reality.... initially stopping member states doing their own thing, dragging negotiations, trashing a not for profit vaccine (and our quick authorisation of vaccines) and then demonstrating the worst kind of vaccine nationalism they were apparently worried about, all to protect the institution and European political leaders reputations ?! All of this under a leader who was a fudge appointment (between power members) and to put it nicely had an unimpressive political career, is totally unacceptable and has highlighted everything that many disliked/worried about the EU

CCFCSteve · Mar 29, 2021

clint van damme said:
Phineas Gage

Had to look him up

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 29, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
B) no one voted leave in 2016 on the expectation of a pandemic arriving meaning a better vaccine rollout which it never would have meant in the first place as per point A.

....and of course by the same token, no one voted leave in 2016 on the expectation that the newly elected leader of the opposition, a life long critic of the EU federalist project, who was enjoying a surge of support from the young, the working classes & the disenfranchised, would suddenly lack the courage of his own convictions & never offer an alternative option to a right-wing exit.
They probably also didn't vote leave in 2016 knowing that the incumbent PM & Chancellor would then wander off whistling back to the Bullingdon social the very next day while both opposition parties failed to force a general election or a vote of no confidence based on the refusal for cross party cooperation , allowing a bunch of opportunists & lickspittles to hijack the process. They probably also didn't vote leave in 2016 knowing that the opposition would then unfathomably concentrate the next 3-4 years deciding upon the correct level of anti-Semitism that was deemed acceptable within the party instead of the job in hand & that the great British public would shoot themselves in the foot for the 4th time in a decade at another GE......

There is plenty of people on here who voted to leave the EU for valid, sound & well considered reasons.......and several others who have confirmed they seriously considered it right up until the day .......many of whom are clearly left-leaning fair-minded well informed folk.

Of course you saw all this coming apparently......Its just a shame not all of us were blessed with the same crystal ball wikipedia page like Mullah Tony.

skybluetony176 · Mar 29, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
....and of course by the same token, no one voted leave in 2016 on the expectation that the newly elected leader of the opposition, a life long critic of the EU federalist project, who was enjoying a surge of support from the young, the working classes & the disenfranchised, would suddenly lack the courage of his own convictions & never offer an alternative option to a right-wing exit.
They probably also didn't vote leave in 2016 knowing that the incumbent PM & Chancellor would then wander off whistling back to the Bullingdon social the very next day while both opposition parties failed to force a general election or a vote of no confidence based on the refusal for cross party cooperation , allowing a bunch of opportunists & lickspittles to hijack the process. They probably also didn't vote leave in 2016 knowing that the opposition would then unfathomably concentrate the next 3-4 years deciding upon the correct level of anti-Semitism that was deemed acceptable within the party instead of the job in hand & that the great British public would shoot themselves in the foot for the 4th time in a decade at another GE......

There is plenty of people on here who voted to leave the EU for valid, sound & well considered reasons.......and several others who have confirmed they seriously considered it right up until the day .......many of whom are clearly left-leaning fair-minded well informed folk.

Of course you saw all this coming apparently......Its just a shame not all of us were blessed with the same crystal ball wikipedia page like Mullah Tony.

Fuck me you can say a lot without saying anything.

clint van damme · Mar 29, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
....and of course by the same token, no one voted leave in 2016 on the expectation that the newly elected leader of the opposition, a life long critic of the EU federalist project, who was enjoying a surge of support from the young, the working classes & the disenfranchised, would suddenly lack the courage of his own convictions & never offer an alternative option to a right-wing exit.
They probably also didn't vote leave in 2016 knowing that the incumbent PM & Chancellor would then wander off whistling back to the Bullingdon social the very next day while both opposition parties failed to force a general election or a vote of no confidence based on the refusal for cross party cooperation , allowing a bunch of opportunists & lickspittles to hijack the process. They probably also didn't vote leave in 2016 knowing that the opposition would then unfathomably concentrate the next 3-4 years deciding upon the correct level of anti-Semitism that was deemed acceptable within the party instead of the job in hand & that the great British public would shoot themselves in the foot for the 4th time in a decade at another GE......

There is plenty of people on here who voted to leave the EU for valid, sound & well considered reasons.......and several others who have confirmed they seriously considered it right up until the day .......many of whom are clearly left-leaning fair-minded well informed folk.

Of course you saw all this coming apparently......Its just a shame not all of us were blessed with the same crystal ball wikipedia page like Mullah Tony.

Didn't need a crystal ball.
Just had a quick think, as a working class man, am I going to benefit from a cause championed by Farage, Bank, Mogg etc?

Didn't take much working out.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 29, 2021

clint van damme said:
Didn't need a crystal ball.
Just had a quick think, as a working class man, am I going to benefit from a cause championed by Farage, Bank, Mogg etc?

Didn't take much working out.

Yeah that's the problem. I could actually get onboard with a left wing Brexit, but we were never going to get that.

clint van damme · Mar 29, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yeah that's the problem. I could actually get onboard with a left wing Brexit, but we were never going to get that.

Indeed. The choice was between two forms of neoliberalism, I voted for what I considered to be the lesser of two evils.

Grendel · Mar 29, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
Did anyone see the Huw Edwards interview with Ferage yesterday?

Blah blah BMW, blah blah blah French wine, blah blah blah WTO, blah blah blah technology blah blah blah.

Basically he still has no answers so is regurgitating the same old factless and already dismissed urban myths. I was half expecting him to claim Marc Almond has taken a line up of sailers meaning he had to have his stomach pumped because he’d overdosed on spunk and the doctors counted a gazillion different types of semen in his stomach.

Im showing this to please educate everyone on the forum to debate like a grown man. After all I’m sure Mr Almonds penis was well grown at this point - though he fired blanks according to The Tonester

Spoiler alert - you will not see grown men or women discussing this on Question Time anytime soon.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

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