The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

westcountry_skyblue · Sep 22, 2017

I went to the doctors today first time in 4/5 years,Had to Phone this morning for an appointment and after 35 mins trying to get through I Suceeded. In the waiting room there were two families one looked like Iraqy/Syrian and one were Romianian.
I have worked since 84 been out of work for 6 months in that time and it pisses me off I am paying for these parasites to get free care.
Lets get out even with no deal and LOOK AFTER OUR OWN FOR A CHANGE!!

Sick Boy · Sep 22, 2017

westcountry_skyblue said:
I went to the doctors today first time in 4/5 years,Had to Phone this morning for an appointment and after 35 mins trying to get through I Suceeded. In the waiting room there were two families one looked like Iraqy/Syrian and one were Romianian.
I have worked since 84 been out of work for 6 months in that time and it pisses me off I am paying for these parasites to get free care.
Lets get out even with no deal and LOOK AFTER OUR OWN FOR A CHANGE!!

Ahhh the good dehumanisation of people. Not sure what people from Iraq and Syria have to do with the EU.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Sep 22, 2017

Sick Boy said:
You'd think that having had 40 years to prepare for this the Brexiteers would already know what to do. Undoing the intertwining of the economies will take decades, not a couple of years.

You fool.

By that point Sharia will be more of a problem than the economy. You'll also owe me a lot of money!

Sick Boy · Sep 22, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You fool.

By that point Sharia will be more of a problem than the economy. You'll also owe me a lot of money!

How do you propose doing it in 2 years then? I am not sure that gambling is allowed under Sharia, btw.

Astute · Sep 22, 2017

What I really love is people that know whay would happen if we stay or leave. Both are dodgy.

Astute · Sep 22, 2017

Sick Boy said:
How do you propose doing it in 2 years then? I am not sure that gambling is allowed under Sharia, btw.

Neither is drinking or women out of wedlock. As if it doesn't happen.

The same as muslims are peace loving. The vast majority are. But....

Captain Dart · Sep 22, 2017

chiefdave said:
Hmmm, May now proposing that we keep paying into the EU until we can work out what we want to do. What are the odds that the couple of years being proposed will be extended several times.

The fudge is strong in this one.

skybluetony176 · Sep 22, 2017

westcountry_skyblue said:
I went to the doctors today first time in 4/5 years,Had to Phone this morning for an appointment and after 35 mins trying to get through I Suceeded. In the waiting room there were two families one looked like Iraqy/Syrian and one were Romianian.
I have worked since 84 been out of work for 6 months in that time and it pisses me off I am paying for these parasites to get free care.
Lets get out even with no deal and LOOK AFTER OUR OWN FOR A CHANGE!!

Presumably you were there enquiring about a brain cell transplant.

westcountry_skyblue · Sep 22, 2017

Libtard Guardianistas will be the downfall if they got near power,Thank fook they never will!!

Sick Boy · Sep 22, 2017

I'm surprised no leave voters have condemned your comments to be honest.

westcountry_skyblue · Sep 22, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I'm surprised no leave voters have condemned your comments to be honest.

Let's take some Syrian refugees in.......Oh wait!!!!

skybluetony176 · Sep 23, 2017

Grendel said:
The British didn't shape it - a bewildering statement.

As for the end of labour the fact that they performed miles beyond expectations and still failed miserably in terms of forming a majority hardly is losing credibility.

We won't have a labour majority in parliament again

I doubt we'll see any majority in parliament or government anytime soon. While the country is so polarised we have a future of coalitions and minority governments propped up on deals such as two of the last 3 governments have been.

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I doubt we'll see any majority in parliament or government anytime soon. While the country is so polarised we have a future of coalitions and minority governments propped up on deals such as two of the last 3 governments have been.

I don't actually disagree with this. I actually think there is more chance of a labour government in 2022 if not sooner than ever. I'm not certain but after mays shower of a speech yesterday I can tell you there will be millions of disappointed leave voters yesterday regardless of what NW says before he interjects. We voted to leave the EU no ifs and no buts and now we have been told a minimum of 2021 if not more. Very clearly not acceptable. Even remainers have backed leavers such as that dinosaur cable saying this isn't what you voted for. Wel he is right. The tories will pay a huge price at the next election and the fear is if corbyn rides the wave before ukip do and offer a straight out of the EU government whoever does that will mop up millions of votes. In labours case a million votes will most likely give them a majority government especially as labor heartlands won the EU referendum. If corbyn is smart to get control of power this is what he should do. Else ukip will get 3-4 million votes again and split the Labour and tories down the middle again and steal their votes.

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2017

It's no secret that I think that Brexit will prove to be disastrous in the long-term for the country. It will end up doing a great amount of damage to tell Tories in the long-run.

Surprised no one has mentioned the latest downgrading of the country's credit rating.

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

Sick Boy said:
It's no secret that I think that Brexit will prove to be disastrous in the long-term for the country. It will end up doing a great amount of damage to tell Tories in the long-run.

Surprised no one has mentioned the latest downgrading of the country's credit rating.

I thought we haven't left the EU yet :finger:

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I thought we haven't left the EU yet :finger:

I'm sure it based on a forecast of what's to come.

skybluetony176 · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I don't actually disagree with this. I actually think there is more chance of a labour government in 2022 if not sooner than ever. I'm not certain but after mays shower of a speech yesterday I can tell you there will be millions of disappointed leave voters yesterday regardless of what NW says before he interjects. We voted to leave the EU no ifs and no buts and now we have been told a minimum of 2021 if not more. Very clearly not acceptable. Even remainers have backed leavers such as that dinosaur cable saying this isn't what you voted for. Wel he is right. The tories will pay a huge price at the next election and the fear is if corbyn rides the wave before ukip do and offer a straight out of the EU government whoever does that will mop up millions of votes. In labours case a million votes will most likely give them a majority government especially as labor heartlands won the EU referendum. If corbyn is smart to get control of power this is what he should do. Else ukip will get 3-4 million votes again and split the Labour and tories down the middle again and steal their votes.

I think May's speech is just the cold, hard reality of what brexit is and what out actually means, or to be more precise what the route to the brexit actually means. I think ultimately people will get what they voted for it's just that they had no understanding what the journey to that point was. Most people thought it meant putting a cross in a box when it meant oh so much more as they're now finding out.

It will undoubtedly damage the tories but they'll come back at some point. Politics goes in circles and all parties have a spell when damage to their reputation is unavoidable through what's happening in the world and then quite often exacerbated by policy. History tells us that a minority Tory government is often superseded by a labour government. Blair replacing Major the most recent occasion. Can't understand why anyone would dismiss the possibility of it happening again myself even though I believe a labour/lib dem coalition is the most likely outcome of the next general election. Especially if both can continue to make gains in Scotland at the cost of the SNP.

chiefdave · Sep 23, 2017

Reports like this don't exactly inspire confidence.

Civil servants 'highlighting Brexit concerns in official emails to guard against Chilcot-style inquiry'

Civil servants are spelling out concerns about the Government’s Brexit strategy in official emails to protect themselves from a potential “Chilcot-style” inquiry into the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, according to reports.

Officials at the Department for Exiting the European Union have reportedly started setting out concerns about the lack of work being done to prepare Britain for a “no deal” scenario with Brussels.

They reportedly fear the prospect of a post-Brexit inquiry similar to that carried out into the Iraq War which could be launched if the UK’s departure hits the rocks.

skybluetony176 · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I thought we haven't left the EU yet :finger:

Are you saying that it could get worse once we do?

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Are you saying that it could get worse once we do?

I'm saying some posters on here like to have their cake and eat it. Bad news comes out and it's brexit fault and good news comes out and it's we haven't left the EU yet. I can't keep up to be honest.

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I think May's speech is just the cold, hard reality of what brexit is and what out actually means, or to be more precise what the route to the brexit actually means. I think ultimately people will get what they voted for it's just that they had no understanding what the journey to that point was. Most people thought it meant putting a cross in a box when it meant oh so much more as they're now finding out.

It will undoubtedly damage the tories but they'll come back at some point. Politics goes in circles and all parties have a spell when damage to their reputation is unavoidable through what's happening in the world and then quite often exacerbated by policy. History tells us that a minority Tory government is often superseded by a labour government. Blair replacing Major the most recent occasion. Can't understand why anyone would dismiss the possibility of it happening again myself even though I believe a labour/lib dem coalition is the most likely outcome of the next general election. Especially if both can continue to make gains in Scotland at the cost of the SNP.

Agree with most of that Tony but brexit doesn't have to be this way is the one thing we will disagree on. It's done this way because TM is incompetent as shown lots of times in her tenure as PM as I think you will agree. She is a fully paid up member of the remain polictical class and she doesn't want to leave the EU. She believes in global government and being part of the EU in every shape and form. That's absolutely fine but 17.4m of us don't agree with her. She is delaying leaving as long as possible and my biggest fear is Tony when we get to this 2021 point they will turn around and say this has worked well let's do it for another 3 years. I have no faith in this Tory government and the biggest mistake was having a remain PM. If remain had won what would of been said if Boris had of got the PM job. Yeah it wouldn't happen.

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I'm sure it based on a forecast of what's to come.

I wouldn't worry. We aren't leaving at this rate. So on that theory it's based on us staying in the EU :happy:

skybluetony176 · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Agree with most of that Tony but brexit doesn't have to be this way is the one thing we will disagree on. It's done this way because TM is incompetent as shown lots of times in her tenure as PM as I think you will agree. She is a fully paid up member of the remain polictical class and she doesn't want to leave the EU. She believes in global government and being part of the EU in every shape and form. That's absolutely fine but 17.4m of us don't agree with her. She is delaying leaving as long as possible and my biggest fear is Tony when we get to this 2021 point they will turn around and say this has worked well let's do it for another 3 years. I have no faith in this Tory government and the biggest mistake was having a remain PM. If remain had won what would of been said if Boris had of got the PM job. Yeah it wouldn't happen.

It's not just down to TM though. Brexit was always going to be a negotiation and negotiations always involve two parties, on this occasion the EU and the UK. The EU as we're constantly reminded is a protectionist organisation, the people who then constantly remind us of this as an argument for leaving then act all surprised by statements from the EU such as leaving the EU can never be a better option than remaining. Is this faux surprise or did they just never understand what a protectionist organisation is? I'm not talking about posters on forums here either, I'm talking about those involved in the brexit campaign and indeed brexit itself.

I totally agree though that May is incompetent. I'm not sure however that brexit negotiations would ultimately be much different if at all if someone else was PM. I think that this is the cold, hard reality of brexit and the people who voted brexit especially those who insist that they knew what they voted for started to accept it for what it is i.e. what they voted for. Although I see some on social media have already started blaming remainers and our "negative" outlook for brexit on the reality of what they voted for.

Grendel · Sep 23, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I'm sure it based on a forecast of what's to come.

What's Italy's lower rating based on?

skybluetony176 · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I wouldn't worry. We aren't leaving at this rate. So on that theory it's based on us staying in the EU :happy:

We'll leave, I don't think you need to doubt that. All that's happened really is confirmation that leaving the EU in a two year time frame isn't possible, it's just too complicated to do that. Four years is much more realistic but don't be surprised if trade deals continue on a temporary basis after that for a period of time until a permanent solution can be agreed.

skybluetony176 · Sep 23, 2017

Grendel said:
What's Italy's lower rating based on?

Economic forecasts. Same as ours.

chiefdave · Sep 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
The EU as we're constantly reminded is a protectionist organisation, the people who then constantly remind us of this as an argument for leaving then act all surprised by statements from the EU such as leaving the EU can never be a better option than remaining. Is this faux surprise or did they just never understand what a protectionist organisation is? I'm not talking about posters on forums here either, I'm talking about those involved in the brexit campaign and indeed brexit itself.

I find this amazing, what did they think was going to happen? The EU were never going to make leaving the EU a better option than staying in it. The benefit was supposed to be better deals with non-EU countries but the expectation there seems to have now lowered to replicating what we already have.

chiefdave · Sep 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
We'll leave, I don't think you need to doubt that.

I'm not so sure. Another 2 year deal puts us at another general election. Who knows what the situation will be then. If things are going badly with exit negotiations and other trade deals you could have Labour running a remain campaign. If they do that and win the election what then?

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2017

Grendel said:
What's Italy's lower rating based on?

Probably decades and decades corruption and tax avoidance. It still has higher growth forecasts compared to the UK though.

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I wouldn't worry. We aren't leaving at this rate. So on that theory it's based on us staying in the EU :happy:

Yes we are. It's time the Brexiteers took ownership of the mess and stop trying to look for others to blame.

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Yes we are. It's time the Brexiteers took ownership of the mess and stop trying to look for others to blame.

Everything that's wrong with this post. You simply don't get it. You are a remainer (fair enough) but if you don't think this is all being compromised then we will both lose. We will be half in and half out and we all lose. That's exactly what has happened.

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Everything that's wrong with this post. You simply don't get it. You are a remainer (fair enough) but if you don't think this is all being compromised then we will both lose. We will be half in and half out and we all lose. That's exactly what has happened.

It is only being suggested that there is a transitional phase. Long term the UK will still be outside of the Single Market. If everything we were told was true, then I'm not sure what you're so worried about?

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
We'll leave, I don't think you need to doubt that. All that's happened really is confirmation that leaving the EU in a two year time frame isn't possible, it's just too complicated to do that. Four years is much more realistic but don't be surprised if trade deals continue on a temporary basis after that for a period of time until a permanent solution can be agreed.

I think we have to leave in the end for democracy sake but it's being kept on as much as possible by a more remain political class. It doesn't have to be this way. I know we don't agree on that and that's fine. My own opinion is if we had a brexit PM well someone who actually wants to leave the EU then we would be out come March 2019. I fully except and knew there had to be a two year article 50 process but no one voted for more than that imo.

It's a complete fudge job and many pro remain articles I have read by pro eu journalists state this also. It's a brexit betrayal rather than this is how it's meant to be imo.

Kingokings204 · Sep 23, 2017

Sick Boy said:
It is only being suggested that there is a transitional phase. Long term the UK will still be outside of the Single Market. If everything we were told was true, then I'm not sure what you're so worried about?

Just worried about the longer this all goes on the more we will stay. Not one remainer or leaver stated if we left we would have 5 years after the vote to implement the decision made.

Look we all made our arguements for good or for worse on both remain and leave sides. We had a vote and leave won. We therefore leave and it's 5 years at a minimum and you can't guarantee we leave fully in 2021 so it's not really fair is it. That's life I guess.

Sick Boy · Sep 23, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Just worried about the longer this all goes on the more we will stay. Not one remainer or leaver stated if we left we would have 5 years after the vote to implement the decision made.

Look we all made our arguements for good or for worse on both remain and leave sides. We had a vote and leave won. We therefore leave and it's 5 years at a minimum and you can't guarantee we leave fully in 2021 so it's not really fair is it. That's life I guess.

IMO it was never going to be possible within a couple of years. There should actually have been a plan if leave vote was to win. Article 50 should have been triggered in a couple of years and an actual concrete plan put in place. I'm sure you agree that the current government is a shambles and I am genuinely worried that they will be defining the country's future in the long-term.

I have held Irish citizenship since birth and still plan to get out of the country within the next year. I am genuinely worried about leaving my parents here though (both 65) and the prospect of the health service being privatised.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

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