The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (293 Viewers)

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

Grendel said:
Tony is a clueless buffoon who used to worship Farage. You and Tony are well suited.

I know exactly what I voted for. Tony is the only poster on here whose acknowledged he voted for a party led by Nigel Farage.

He’s a dribbling moron

I can see why you admire him

I saw through Farage years ago.

Didn’t KoK vote for Farage‘s party?

My mad brother actually stood as candidate for UKIP. He left on bad terms after discovering how they were milking the EU - fiddling - when he worked as a researcher for a UKIP MEP in Brussels. He never got paid and the MEP was eventually caught.

My mad brother‘s last project was campaigning for labour leave.

We don’t speak to each other.

Needless to say it is strange that you suggest I might admire anyone who supports Farage.

PS I have forgiven Tony for his Protest vote. ;-)

Grendel · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
I saw through Farage years ago.

Didn’t KoK vote for Farage‘s party?

My mad brother actually stood as candidate for UKIP. He left on bad terms after discovering how they were milking the EU - fiddling - when he worked as a researcher for a UKIP MEP in Brussels. He never got paid and the MEP was eventually caught.

My mad brother‘s last project was campaigning for labour leave.

We don’t speak to each other.

Needless to say it is strange that you suggest I might admire anyone who supports Farage.

PS I have forgiven Tony for his Protest vote. ;-)

Tony also seemed to take great delight in mocking a poster by calling him monkey boy - do you forgive him for that as well?

clint van damme · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
I saw through Farage years ago.

Didn’t KoK vote for Farage‘s party?

My mad brother actually stood as candidate for UKIP. He left on bad terms after discovering how they were milking the EU - fiddling - when he worked as a researcher for a UKIP MEP in Brussels. He never got paid and the MEP was eventually caught.

My mad brother‘s last project was campaigning for labour leave.

We don’t speak to each other.

Needless to say it is strange that you suggest I might admire anyone who supports Farage.

PS I have forgiven Tony for his Protest vote. ;-)

When Alan Sked started UKIP it was purely as an anti EU party and the intention was to never take a seat in the EU parliament or take a penny from them. Farage hijacked the party and gave it it's anti immigration angle as well as swelling his personal coffers with money from the EU.

Sick Boy · Nov 30, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Of course there wasn't a plan in place. They never expected to lose the referendum. Voting out was deemed the wrong answer.

Some of course, expect that people shouldn't have voted leave for this reason... I think personally this is another reason people did vote leave. A few protest votes if you like...

I'm not sure anyone thinks that people shouldn't have voted due to a lack of plan by the government. Anyone voting Brexit as a protest vote should have a word with themselves though.

Sick Boy · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Which means they won’t withdraw their support.

Then they'd be going against their own red flag.

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

Grendel said:
Tony also seemed to take great delight in mocking a poster by calling him monkey boy - do you forgive him for that as well?

Depending on the context. Post it and we can see....

Sick Boy · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
Depending on the context. Post it and we can see....

It was myself on the wind up. I am much better behaved these days.

skybluetony176 · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
Depending on the context. Post it and we can see....

It was as a performing monkey. Not a racial slur. He knows this though. But true to form he’s adopting misrepresentation. The last time he pulled this one out (not the first time he’s done it) it was after me and another poster who is from an ethnic minority both pulled Grendull up on something and rather than admit he was wrong he resorted to a childish game of trying to make out I’m a racist in some weird attempt to turn the other poster against me. He’ll probably be claiming I had an account on GMK next where I had a load of racist rants. Again, something he knows to be false. In fact I was never going to bring this up but because he’s being such a knob I will. Someone privately told me after the last time he brought it up (not that long ago) that he actually knows firsthand that the account was false. If you take my point. Pretty pathetic if true. I don’t know if it is but he certainly likes to bring it up when everyone else has forgotten about it. That’s cyber bullying on a school boy scale.

skybluetony176 · Nov 30, 2017

Sick Boy said:
It was myself on the wind up. I am much better behaved these days.

And I apologise if it caused any offence.

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
And I apologise if it caused any offence.

Apropos offence.

I find this quote from KoK particularly offensive: „Why not let the Northern Irish British people decide and their mps?

They are a very proud to be British and that’s why they want the same as the rest of the UK.“

This seems to me to imply that all NI people are proud to be British and want to remain British.

Either KoK has no idea of NI, or he is referring to people like the DUP MPs deciding the fate of NI.

The NI assembly is virtually 50:50 loyalist/ republican.

On the EU question there was a two thirds majority for remain.

People on here pull Tony up on a technicality, whilst ignoring KoK‘s absolute BS.

The leavers should be all out for a referendum on the question of a border. To be absolutely democratic, as leavers purport to be, we should include all voters of the island of Ireland as they are the people effected by the border. The island of Great Britain is secondary on this question.

England and Wales have voted for border controls. Great. We should respect that, but also respect the wishes of NI and ROI who do not want a border between them.

If we don’t need MPs to decide on EU membership for the UK, then why should we rely on them for SM and CU membership for NI?

skybluetony176 · Nov 30, 2017

Just watching the news and hadn’t considered that if you don’t have a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland ie a 2 tier brexit, they’ll probably have to be a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. This is a mess. A customs border in the U.K.

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
Apropos offence.

I find this quote from KoK particularly offensive: „Why not let the Northern Irish British people decide and their mps?

They are a very proud to be British and that’s why they want the same as the rest of the UK.“

This seems to me to imply that all NI people are proud to be British and want to remain British.

Either KoK has no idea of NI, or he is referring to people like the DUP MPs deciding the fate of NI.

The NI assembly is virtually 50:50 loyalist/ republican.

On the EU question there was a two thirds majority for remain.

People on here pull Tony up on a technicality, whilst ignoring KoK‘s absolute BS.

The leavers should be all out for a referendum on the question of a border. To be absolutely democratic, as leavers purport to be, we should include all voters of the island of Ireland as they are the people effected by the border. The island of Great Britain is secondary on this question.

England and Wales have voted for border controls. Great. We should respect that, but also respect the wishes of NI and ROI who do not want a border between them.

If we don’t need MPs to decide on EU membership for the UK, then why should we rely on them for SM and CU membership for NI?

Absolute crap and the worst is I know you believe it. Your views are deranged and I’m trying to be kind.

The Northern Irish are proud to be British well most of them. If they hated Britain they would have a united ireland. Your points of view don’t even stand up to any sort of logic.

Let me try and make it simple for you so you have half a chance of understanding. Answer me these two questions?

When Scotland had their independance vote did the English get a say to quote you a land border?

When we have a general election do we go round region by region and say well coventry voted labour so we want out the Tory government who won overall?

Yes or no will suffice as not to confuse you.

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Just watching the news and hadn’t considered that if you don’t have a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland ie a 2 tier brexit, they’ll probably have to be a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. This is a mess. A customs border in the U.K.

Which is what the Brexiteers argue. Seeing as it is our fault in that we voted for borders, we should accept it.

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Just watching the news and hadn’t considered that if you don’t have a border between Northern Ireland and Ireland ie a 2 tier brexit, they’ll probably have to be a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. This is a mess. A customs border in the U.K.

Yes that’s correct but you have a free trade deal and nothing changes? What’s the mess? Nothing would change from what it is now. You’re making it sound impossible again. Why?

Sick Boy · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Absolute crap and the worst is I know you believe it. Your views are deranged and I’m trying to be kind.

The Northern Irish are proud to be British well most of them. If they hated Britain they would have a united ireland. Your points of view don’t even stand up to any sort of logic.

Let me try and make it simple for you so you have half a chance of understanding. Answer me these two questions?

When Scotland had their independance vote did the English get a say to quote you a land border?

When we have a general election do we go round region by region and say well coventry voted labour so we want out the Tory government who won overall?

Yes or no will suffice as not to confuse you.

Why is everything always about hatred? If you are opposed to Brexit you automatically hate Britain? If you are from NI and want to be part of a united Ireland, why do you automatically hate Britain?

Sick Boy · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Yes that’s correct but you have a free trade deal and nothing changes? What’s the mess? Nothing would change from what it is now. You’re making it sound impossible again. Why?

Good luck getting the DUP to agree to that hahaha!

skybluetony176 · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
The NI assembly is virtually 50:50 loyalist/ republican.

Which I think roughly reflects the population split in Northern Ireland now.

I think the splitting of the Union is closer than people think. I always thought it would be the religious demographic of Northern Ireland that would tip a united Ireland but I’m now thinking its going to be the political demographic. And the DUP know it.

chiefdave · Nov 30, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
a 2 tier brexit

Thats what I can't get my head round.

You get people saying there was never any intention of having a hard border. In which case what was all that about taking back control. There will be an open border from the EU to the UK.

Equally you get people saying there should be a hard border with all the consequences to the peace agreement that entails.

You've even got people saying NI should stay in the customs union. That's ridiculous, NI voted remain yet they should stay half in while the rest of the UK is totally out. Scotland voted remain as well, do they get the same option?

These are the sort of things that should have been made clear prior to the vote. Sure the EU were never going to agree a leave settlement or anything like that prior to the vote but there should have been more indication of what leave entailed. The phrase 'I hadn't realised that' is all too common when discussing what needs to happen now.

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Absolute crap and the worst is I know you believe it. Your views are deranged and I’m trying to be kind.

The Northern Irish are proud to be British well most of them. If they hated Britain they would have a united ireland. Your points of view don’t even stand up to any sort of logic.

Let me try and make it simple for you so you have half a chance of understanding. Answer me these two questions?

When Scotland had their independance vote did the English get a say to quote you a land border?

When we have a general election do we go round region by region and say well coventry voted labour so we want out the Tory government who won overall?

Yes or no will suffice as not to confuse you.

1. no. England was in the EU and Scotland was intending to stay in. So there would have been no hard border.

2. No. why would we? NI is a province and borders on an EU country on the same island. It has it’s own assembly and has a certain degree of autonomy. Coventry is an English city. Different situation. Plus ca 50% of NI are Republicans and not proud British.

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Good luck getting the DUP to agree to that hahaha!

What to a free trade deal?

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
1. no. England was in the EU and Scotland was intending to stay in. So there would have been no hard border.

2. No. why would we? NI is a province and borders on an EU country on the same island. It has it’s own assembly and has a certain degree of autonomy. Coventry is an English city. Different situation. Plus ca 50% of NI are Republicans and not proud British.

Northern Ireland is a unique situation. I’ve not met person correct me if I’m wrong by all means who want a hard border? Or a border different to what it is now?

Who would want that and why?

chiefdave · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Yes that’s correct but you have a free trade deal and nothing changes? What’s the mess? Nothing would change from what it is now. You’re making it sound impossible again. Why?

So after all the talk of controlling our borders we're going to have an open border from the UK to the EU that doesn't even require you to have a passport to cross? What happens if thousands of Eastern Europeans wander across the border and lodge asylum claims or just decide to live there undetected?

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

chiefdave said:
Thats what I can't get my head round.

You get people saying there was never any intention of having a hard border. In which case what was all that about taking back control. There will be an open border from the EU to the UK.

Equally you get people saying there should be a hard border with all the consequences to the peace agreement that entails.

You've even got people saying NI should stay in the customs union. That's ridiculous, NI voted remain yet they should stay half in while the rest of the UK is totally out. Scotland voted remain as well, do they get the same option?

These are the sort of things that should have been made clear prior to the vote. Sure the EU were never going to agree a leave settlement or anything like that prior to the vote but there should have been more indication of what leave entailed. The phrase 'I hadn't realised that' is all too common when discussing what needs to happen now.

Scotland has no EU border. If we gave them half way, then we would have to agree to a border. Which we would never do. Although we voted for control of borders. Yes the whole thing is a joke.

skybluetony176 · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Absolute crap and the worst is I know you believe it. Your views are deranged and I’m trying to be kind.

The Northern Irish are proud to be British well most of them. If they hated Britain they would have a united ireland. Your points of view don’t even stand up to any sort of logic.

Let me try and make it simple for you so you have half a chance of understanding. Answer me these two questions?

When Scotland had their independance vote did the English get a say to quote you a land border?

When we have a general election do we go round region by region and say well coventry voted labour so we want out the Tory government who won overall?

Yes or no will suffice as not to confuse you.

I would look at the population statistics before proclaiming that most of them are proud to be British. The difference in terms of percentage is down to single figures and Protestants are on the decline while Catholics are on the rise. This means that certainly within my lifetime Northern Ireland will be predominately Catholic and Catholics in my experience are anything other than proud to be British.

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Northern Ireland is a unique situation. I’ve not met person correct me if I’m wrong by all means who want a hard border? Or a border different to what it is now?

Who would want that and why?

The people who want to control our borders and leave the CU and SM. A hard border with the EU is the consequence. But you knew what you were voting for.

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Why is everything always about hatred? If you are opposed to Brexit you automatically hate Britain? If you are from NI and want to be part of a united Ireland, why do you automatically hate Britain?

That’s not what I was getting at. In my last reply to Mart I was explaining again correct me if I am wrong. No one wants a hard border in Ireland.

I’m saying Northern Ireland are British and the Republic of Ireland aren’t. Everyone wants things to stay as they are. Without being funny I’ve not spoken to one leaver who makes it out to be a problem. On here all the remainers make it seem like it’s impossible. I don’t understand why because it isn’t impossible.

chiefdave · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Who would want that and why?

Wouldn't every single person who was banging on about taking back control of our borders want and expect there to be a hard border complete with passport checks and all the usual immigration controls you'd expect when entering another country?

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

martcov said:
The people who want to control our borders and leave the CU and SM. A hard border with the EU is the consequence. But you knew what you were voting for.

Again, it doesn’t have to be. A free trade deal means everything stays the same. You just proved my point in my rely to sickboy. You seem to be the champion of a hard border in Ireland. Why?

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I would look at the population statistics before proclaiming that most of them are proud to be British. The difference in terms of percentage is down to single figures and Protestants are on the decline while Catholics are on the rise. This means that certainly within my lifetime Northern Ireland will be predominately Catholic and Catholics in my experience are anything other than proud to be British.

Plus, on the question of the EU some protestants must have voted remain as it was a clear majority.

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

chiefdave said:
Wouldn't every single person who was banging on about taking back control of our borders want and expect there to be a hard border complete with passport checks and all the usual immigration controls you'd expect when entering another country?

Genuinely not met one leave voter who wants a hard border in Ireland. Sorry. Maybe you have?

chiefdave · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Without being funny I’ve not spoken to one leaver who makes it out to be a problem. On here all the remainers make it seem like it’s impossible. I don’t understand why because it isn’t impossible.

Five solutions to Brexit Border question, and five problems

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I would look at the population statistics before proclaiming that most of them are proud to be British. The difference in terms of percentage is down to single figures and Protestants are on the decline while Catholics are on the rise. This means that certainly within my lifetime Northern Ireland will be predominately Catholic and Catholics in my experience are anything other than proud to be British.

That’s fine. If they want to leave Britain then give them the vote. I was under the impression they wanted to stay part of the Uk. Never seemed a debate to leave from my eyes.

martcov · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Again, it doesn’t have to be. A free trade deal means everything stays the same. You just proved my point in my rely to sickboy. You seem to be the champion of a hard border in Ireland. Why?

We haven’t got a free trade deal. We won’t get as a good a deal as we have st the moment. That is a fact. Plus the UK won’t allow free movement of EU citizens. What if, say, Poles and Estonians walk across the border? How will you control that? And the millions of Muslim refugees forced on to ROI by Merkel?

Kingokings204 · Nov 30, 2017

chiefdave said:
Five solutions to Brexit Border question, and five problems

Good article actually. I don’t see anything major happening to the border at all. My opinion.

chiefdave · Nov 30, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Genuinely not met one leave voter who wants a hard border in Ireland. Sorry. Maybe you have?

Are you seriously claiming that nobody voted leave as they wanted control of our borders?

How on earth can you say we're going to leave the EU but then have a completely open border between the EU and UK?

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (293 Viewers)

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