SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
I think there's a lot of truth in that Astute.
Few people voted because of what Farage said.
But what Farage said and did ultimately enabled people to vote.
I know quite a lot of people who voted leave. But not one person voted because of what Farage said.
I don't even think many people voted on what was said by those that they sided with. The bullshit was clear to see on both sides.
The difference being that the failure of Cameron's negotiations was known befor the vote. The backtracking on leave promises only started after they had won.
How about where Cameron said that they had come to an agreement on making changes in our favour. But all that had happened is that they had agreed to have talks on if anything could change. And this was confirmed by the EU. So how many voted remain because of this? A million would have made the numbers seem a lot more in favour of leaving.
That was the night before when we found out. Most people didn't know before voting. You keep saying about the 350m. That was constantly called out as a lie since it was first mentioned. But the remain side wouldn't admit to how much the real amount was because it is so high. That was where the personal attacks started. An absolute joke from both sides.The difference being that the failure of Cameron's negotiations was known befor the vote. The backtracking on leave promises only started after they had won.
Out of interest, the EU is meeting in Bratislava in September. If....they commit themselves to more transparency, more democracy, controls to stop benefit tourism and so on, then make an offer of basically what Cameron and other critical nations wanted, and then present it to parliament. Would the government then be able to say the referendum was based on past facts and that it was only advisory, now we have a far better deal and we wil let parliament decide? ( Don't see it happening though, but just a thought ).
If all that happened millions who voted out would want to stay in.Out of interest, the EU is meeting in Bratislava in September. If....they commit themselves to more transparency, more democracy, controls to stop benefit tourism and so on, then make an offer of basically what Cameron and other critical nations wanted, and then present it to parliament. Would the government then be able to say the referendum was based on past facts and that it was only advisory, now we have a far better deal and we wil let parliament decide? ( Don't see it happening though, but just a thought ).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
More bad news for the remain campaign. They said it'd never happed.
And I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Farage have his moment in the sun in Brussels yesterday.
Good luck to him.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
More bad news for the remain campaign. They said it'd never happed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
More bad news for the remain campaign. They said it'd never happed.
It'll be up and down just as it always is. I expect a large fall tomorrow. The City likes volatility.
It'll be up and down just as it always is. I expect a large fall tomorrow. The City likes volatility.
Plenty more positives than negatives from what I read although if you are ooking for negatives then you read it how you will. Glass half full or half empty depending on your viewpoint and how the referendum went.So, did you read the whole article or just the headline? There was plenty of caution there.
Not always a bad thing.
If we did those like Farage would get a lot more voted in. And the BNP would have a voice in parliament.
Boing boing, then it will settle till the next crisis.It'll be up and down just as it always is. I expect a large fall tomorrow. The City likes volatility.
Not even a week after the vote and apparently there is proof the markets are fine.
It will do whatever Murdoch decides it will do...
Yet after a day or two there was proof that we was in the shit as our economy was collapsing.......Not even a week after the vote and apparently there is proof the markets are fine.
And if you have a lot of racists in a small area?Not necessarily, you can have a minimum % threshold before getting any seats. That would keep out the more extreme groups. But it would make it more difficult for independents (like Martin Bell).
Somehow you need a system that allows popular individuals to get a seat but keeps out extreme groups that poll lowish over a wide area, but allows such people a voice if they poll well in a smaller area. Not easy, I'm sure there would be anomalies in any system, there certainly are in FPP, especially as there is a lot of difficulty in determining boundaries.
Or a muslim enclave, a jewish ghetto or a concentration of left wing students. Sure distributions are bound to have the odd cluster, can't guarantee 100% blandness.And if you have a lot of racists in a small area?
This is the problem. Some people want everyone's voices heard. But only if they say what they want to hear.Or a muslim enclave, a jewish ghetto or a concentration of left wing students. Sure distributions are bound to have the odd cluster, can't guarantee 100% blandness.
Do you seriously think that the people who work in the City pay the slightest attention to Murdoch?
Quick word of farage, I have probably followed him closer than anyone on here with all respect and he might well be a populist but I would put it that populists are democrats at least. He made it clear this was a once in a lifetime vote and the result was the result. He told a few porkies and who didn't? That's politics.
He isn't part of the political class I have to disappoint you, he had a real job for 20 years hence his go in the eu parliament. He has suffered abuse for 17 years from the eu parliament he was allowed one last say after winning. He has been called every name under the sun. Watch his videos on YouTube. His rant at Tony Blair in 2005 and 2010 rant at Herman van rompuy are his two most famous so check them out. Very funny. He says things the political class don't want you to know or hear so that's why they shout him down. As Gandhi said first they ignore you and then they laugh at you then they fight you and then you win and he did on this one.
He has wanted out of the eu for 20 years and reason he got into politics in the first place. He could see what was happening. As he says it's not a bad thing for Just the Uk but for Europe this failed project. The EU is a sinking ship and there are not enough lifeboats.
Farage got us this refendum and no one else. Call him what you want it it's down to how you see him. I see him as a rare thing in politics. Someone said and I'm not old enough that back in the 60-70's labour was really labour working class and conservative was for the richer person. Now someone said they have morphed into one. How very true. They all come from the same background and careers. Never worked a day in their lives and most don't see outside London or even care.
Make no mistake and you want proof. Here is two Ed milliband is unelectable and labour lost last year as he is a posh toff who is meant to represent Mike from Sunderland. Do me a favor.
It's a joke. And to finish something really major has happened here. The people always use to protest against the establishment and now the establishment protest against us when we don't vote "right" I hope this could be the change we all need. Cameron gone and corbyn will go. Can we start to have a difference in politics now and real debates.
Those of us that understood fully about the leave vote knew it wouldn't be easy to start with. Germany has all the countries tied into the EU making it not easy to get out. I said on here enough times that if we voted to leave it would be hard to start with, but short term pain for long term gain makes it very worthwhile.
I don't want to be governed by Germany. If we stay in our strengths as a single country will continue to be taken away. The disgrace is how the certain members of the gravy train are now using bully boy tactics. They know it can all start collapsing around them. They say that we can't cherry pick the good parts. So there is no doubt that they know that there is plenty wrong. What they should have done is corrected what is wrong before bringing lots more countries into the union.
The idea of countries coming together as one to help each other is the right way to go. But to me the first thing that needs to go is the Euro. The strongest countries benefit while the weaker suffer. Maybe the idea is that once they join it is even harder to get out when they can't get by without handouts.
Yet after a day or two there was proof that we was in the shit as our economy was collapsing.......
The weaker countries in the Euro were weak before the Euro. Greece was a financial disaster and should never have been accepted. Italy was constantly devaluing and for years constantly having government crisis.
Most of Spain and Portugal were poor pre EU.
I know you weren't replying to me but that was my point! You cannot have a single economy that would fit these countries and the UK, France and Germany. You could accommodate all in the single trading bloc we signed up for,
The EU has drastically improved the infrastructure of these countries - something they could never have afforded. That gives them a chance to become more efficient and therefore less weak. The idea is that their economies grow to even out the differences. To stay merely as a trading block would leave them disadvantaged forever - which is not in the long term interests of our region or it's people. An increase in purchasing power throughout Europe is good for suppliers and consumers. Equal rights for everyone in the EU is not directly an economic benefit, but a humanitarian necessity. A trading block as voted for 40 years ago is no longer enough as the world has progressed enormously.
And I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Farage have his moment in the sun in Brussels yesterday.
I understand the aim, I just don't believe it's achievable. I understand that much of the money paid into the EU goes into these investments and I have no problem with that. My concern is that it would take decades to realise and I don't think that they would last the course before the medicine felt worse than the disease.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?