The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (255 Viewers)

chiefdave · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
Politics in the UK is nothing but bullshit.

The whole system needs a massive overhaul. Get rid of career politicians and those only interested in helping their rich mates in return for 7 figure salary jobs that don't involve any actual work.

In fact everything about our political system needs scrapping and starting again. Make every vote count, make every MP accountable.

When a third of the population can't even be bothered to vote in a general election, giving reasons like there's no point or there's nobody who represents me something is seriously wrong.

Astute · Jun 26, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Where has Corbyn moaned about us leaving? He's only said Labour whatever deal we get or don't get from Brexit will need to meet tests. Never suggested another referendum or a pointless people's vote

He now says about staying in and not leaving. But of course he doesn't mention another vote as a leader saying so would end their money/power grabbing career instantly.

martcov · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
So how long has it taken them since they made Italy and Greece do it all alone?

Who are „they“? Who made who do what?

martcov · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
Like in Germany at present.

Not really. SPD is not hard left and CDU under Merkel is not hard Right.

Sick Boy · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
He now says about staying in and not leaving. But of course he doesn't mention another vote as a leader saying so would end their money/power grabbing career instantly.

Corbyn only backed remain to save his job. His stance on Brexit will be his downfall amongst the naive younger generation who actually believe he is pro EU.

Astute · Jun 26, 2018

martcov said:
Who are „they“? Who made who do what?

So you are trying to confuse what the EU has agreed to in keeping immigration to Italy and Greece until they have put intense pressure on the EU?

Astute · Jun 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Corbyn only backed remain to save his job. His stance on Brexit will be his downfall amongst the naive younger generation who actually believe he is pro EU.

Which is what I have been saying.

Sick Boy · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
Which is what I have been saying.

As have I, not been joining in with the fun on this thread recently.

martcov · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
So you are trying to confuse what the EU has agreed to in keeping immigration to Italy and Greece until they have put intense pressure on the EU?

Merkel has been trying since 2015 to get the other countries to share the load.... Orban, the Poles and other Eastern countries have told her where to go.... Germany has given billions to Erdogan to stop the refugees going via Turkey to Greece.. The Dublin agreement was made before the refugee crisis and is obviously not working.

martcov · Jun 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
As have I, not been joining in with the fun on this thread recently.

It can only get better now that UKIP has given up any pretence to be about „decent ordinary folk“ as Farage used to call his small minded bigoted followers, and taken the far right conspiracy theorists and Tommy Robinson fans officially on board. Ukip gains 500 new members since allowing prominent far-right activists to join party

martcov · Jun 26, 2018

Astute said:
Merkel left alone? What about Italy and Greece? But the problem would be the Nazis in Germany that you say are not a problem if Germany took in lots again.

Alone in the quest to share the load and relieve Italy and Greece. Of course by definition Italy and Grece are behind her, but she is the more powerful.

And just for you: „Brexit is a pain in the Arse“. quote: Spanish government.
EU Heavyweights Will Block U.K. Single-Market Bid, Spain Says

Westendlad · Jun 26, 2018

martcov said:
It can only get better now that UKIP has given up any pretence to be about „decent ordinary folk“ as Farage used to call his small minded bigoted followers, and taken the far right conspiracy theorists and Tommy Robinson fans officially on board. Ukip gains 500 new members since allowing prominent far-right activists to join party

UKIP were finished ages ago. But hey they did a fantastic job, probably wouldn't be a Brexit without them.

dutchman · Jun 26, 2018

Westendlad said:
UKIP were finished ages ago.

Until people realise they were duped and the government have no intention of taking Britain out of the EU in any meaningful sense.

Grendel · Jun 27, 2018

chiefdave said:
You're not seriously suggesting that May and her cronies are going to run the next general election campaign on a remain platform?

May and her cronies are carrying out the will of the people against their own beliefs. May is a classic europhile.

Grendel · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
It can only get better now that UKIP has given up any pretence to be about „decent ordinary folk“ as Farage used to call his small minded bigoted followers, and taken the far right conspiracy theorists and Tommy Robinson fans officially on board. Ukip gains 500 new members since allowing prominent far-right activists to join party

Oh dear Martcov shows how clueless he is about British politics - yet again

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Westendlad said:
UKIP were finished ages ago. But hey they did a fantastic job, probably wouldn't be a Brexit without them.

What is Brexit? Up until now it hasn’t been decided how we are leaving. The cabinet cannot agree on a workable exit which will put us in a better position after Brexit than we are now.

Hardly a fantastic job. Apart from French made blue passports, thousands of new bureaucrats and damaging uncertainty, there isn’t a Brexit.

UKIP are now reduced to spreading bullshit over the internet. A fitting end for a disgusting party that sabotaged Britain’s relationship with the EU, lost us our right to live and work anywhere in Europe and split the country in two for the foreseeable future. For what? Pie in the sky trade deals and „independence“ from an organisation which we joined voluntarily and helped evolve into what it is now.

The biggest and most embarrassing calamity since the „peace in our time“ deal with Hitler.

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Grendel said:
Oh dear Martcov shows how clueless he is about British politics - yet again

Oh really o wise one. In which way? I merely pointed out the disgusting level to which this scumbag party has been reduced to as a fringe cesspit for the more stupid leavers.

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

dutchman said:
Until people realise they were duped and the government have no intention of taking Britain out of the EU in any meaningful sense.

People were duped which is why we are in a political mess.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
What is Brexit? Up until now it hasn’t been decided how we are leaving. The cabinet cannot agree on a workable exit which will put us in a better position after Brexit than we are now.

More like the EU won't allow a good working relationship with us so far. They don't want us to leave as we put too much money into their pot.

So explain about the future you know about after we have left. Because you are the only one who seems to know what will happen.

Yes they can make it hard for us. But it would also be a disaster for several countries in the EU. Even Germany would feel the pain if it all goes wrong.

It is easy for those in the EU talking about cutting off their nose to spite their face. But will they be so keen when it is time to hold the knife and actually do it?

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
People were duped which is why we are in a political mess.

You are right.

We joined a common market. The older generation remembered what we joined. It was nothing like it has become. But the politicians at the time knew what the plans were. We were duped.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
Oh really o wise one. In which way? I merely pointed out the disgusting level to which this scumbag party has been reduced to as a fringe cesspit for the more stupid leavers.

Scumbag party? How can you say such a thing when you have the Afd and make out they are nothing?

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
More like the EU won't allow a good working relationship with us so far. They don't want us to leave as we put too much money into their pot.

So explain about the future you know about after we have left. Because you are the only one who seems to know what will happen.

Yes they can make it hard for us. But it would also be a disaster for several countries in the EU. Even Germany would feel the pain if it all goes wrong.

It is easy for those in the EU talking about cutting off their nose to spite their face. But will they be so keen when it is time to hold the knife and actually do it?

Are you proud that this act of self harm also harms others? People working in other countries who cannot even understand why Britain is harming itself?

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
Scumbag party? How can you say such a thing when you have the Afd and make out they are nothing?

AfD are a scumbag party and I have absolutely nothing to do with them ... unlike Farage who has given speeches at their rallies.

UKIP are scumbags whether or not AfD exist.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
Are you proud that this act of self harm also harms others? People working in other countries who cannot even understand why Britain is harming itself?

Are you proud that Juncker came out a few days before the vote saying that nothing would change to our benefit if we stayed in the EU?

Harming? So like I have said several times what do you know that nobody else knows?

We have our own currency. We will be OK. We will have our own destiny in our own hands instead of having Juncker and co dictating to us. Short term pain for long term gain at worse.

But you only want to listen to the so called experts that keep getting it wrong. Strangely enough they are all pro EU.

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
You are right.

We joined a common market. The older generation remembered what we joined. It was nothing like it has become. But the politicians at the time knew what the plans were. We were duped.

We have agreed to virtually everything the EU has become. Don’t come the old. „We didn’t know what was happening“ crap. Our elected government ratified everything. We are a parliamentary democracy and our parliament carried out their duty. Just because some tosser says we should have been consulted via referendum on every step along the way, doesn’t mean the said tosser is right.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
AfD are a scumbag party and I have absolutely nothing to do with them ... unlike Farage who has given speeches at their rallies.

UKIP are scumbags whether or not AfD exist.

UKIP are finished here. AfD are on their way up. Yet you go on about UKIP and only mention AfD when pushed.

And who has anything to do with UKIP here?

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
We have agreed to virtually everything the EU has become. Don’t come the old. „We didn’t know what was happening“ crap. Our elected government ratified everything. We are a parliamentary democracy and our parliament carried out their duty. Just because some tosser says we should have been consulted via referendum on every step along the way, doesn’t mean the said tosser is right.

As you agree here we were duped into joining the EU. Ratified not by us. Ratified by those with their snouts in the trough. Just like it is now.

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
Are you proud that Juncker came out a few days before the vote saying that nothing would change to our benefit if we stayed in the EU?

Harming? So like I have said several times what do you know that nobody else knows?

We have our own currency. We will be OK. We will have our own destiny in our own hands instead of having Juncker and co dictating to us. Short term pain for long term gain at worse.

But you only want to listen to the so called experts that keep getting it wrong. Strangely enough they are all pro EU.

Strangely enough virtually all experts think we are making a mistake. It must be a massive conspiracy then.

We have our own currency just as Italy and Greece had theirs. We could keep devaluing to stay in the game. Very true. Italy did that and had to knock a naught off the end of their denominations as the currency became absurd ( as did Romania). Remember „the pound in your pocket will not be affected“ line by Harold Wilson?

Having your own currency doesn’t guarantee stability. It also means you are subject to more costs through exchange rates and buying and selling forward. The Eurozone countries don’t have these costs.

We had a get out from the Euro anyway.

Who is Juncker? His term ends in 2021 anyway. He doesn’t dictate anything. The parliament and European Council vote on the Commission proposals. They can accept, reject or amend Commission regulations. Stop reading the Express!

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
UKIP are finished here. AfD are on their way up. Yet you go on about UKIP and only mention AfD when pushed.

And who has anything to do with UKIP here?

AfD are not necessarily on the way up. No one will work with them. They constantly embarrass themselves and seek to dismiss the Nazi time as an irrelevance. Referring to it as a piece of birdshit compared with the history of the German people.

I have no reason to keep mentioning any perceived success of AfD. I live in a region where they are not particularly successful and have no dealings with them.

They represent one eighth of the population.

You and a couple of others love to mention AfD as the great hope. May be you think they are Brexit fans. That is the relevance on here.

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
As you agree here we were duped into joining the EU. Ratified not by us. Ratified by those with their snouts in the trough. Just like it is now.

We were not duped into joining the EU. We were in the common market and our government helped create the EU. A fantastic achievement. We are not a direct voting country on any issues. Devolution and the EU referendums being absolute exceptions.

Parliament is sovereign. On all issues. If you say we were duped on one, then we were duped on all others where „the ones with their snouts in the trough“ passed laws.

A stupid Brexit/ UKIP way at looking at our parliamentary history.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
AfD are not necessarily on the way up. No one will work with them. They constantly embarrass themselves and seek to dismiss the Nazi time as an irrelevance. Referring to it as a piece of birdshit compared with the history of the German people.

I have no reason to keep mentioning any perceived success of AfD. I live in a region where they are not particularly successful and have no dealings with them.

They represent one eighth of the population.

You and a couple of others love to mention AfD as the great hope. May be you think they are Brexit fans. That is the relevance on here.

Great hope?

That is pathetic. You go on about how much UKIP has a say here. They are finished. AfD are on the up. They only started a few years ago. Now 1 in 8 Germans vote for them. They are much worse than UKIP ever were.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
Strangely enough virtually all experts think we are making a mistake. It must be a massive conspiracy then.

We have our own currency just as Italy and Greece had theirs. We could keep devaluing to stay in the game. Very true. Italy did that and had to knock a naught off the end of their denominations as the currency became absurd ( as did Romania). Remember „the pound in your pocket will not be affected“ line by Harold Wilson?

Having your own currency doesn’t guarantee stability. It also means you are subject to more costs through exchange rates and buying and selling forward. The Eurozone countries don’t have these costs.

We had a get out from the Euro anyway.

Who is Juncker? His term ends in 2021 anyway. He doesn’t dictate anything. The parliament and European Council vote on the Commission proposals. They can accept, reject or amend Commission regulations. Stop reading the Express!

The same experts that got it totally wrong on what would happen if we voted leave.

I would prefer to have our own currency than be tied to the Euro. And those who wanted the Euro now agree.

Who is Juncker? Are you now trying to downplay his part in everything? Yes he still has 3 years left minimum. 3 more years to push the EU in the direction he wants.

Astute · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
We were not duped into joining the EU.
Parliament is sovereign. On all issues. If you say we were duped on one, then we were duped on all others where „the ones with their snouts in the trough“ passed laws.

A stupid Brexit/ UKIP way at looking at our parliamentary history.

Exactly.

The British public had no say. Those who made money out of us giving over our rights to the EU were the ones who made the decisions.

Brexit/UKIP way of looking at it? I'm so sorry that I am not blind to the faults of the EU. As I have said countless times I would be better off if we stayed in. But it doesn't mean that I should be blindly pro EU like yourself.

martcov · Jun 27, 2018

Astute said:
Great hope?

That is pathetic. You go on about how much UKIP has a say here. They are finished. AfD are on the up. They only started a few years ago. Now 1 in 8 Germans vote for them. They are much worse than UKIP ever were.

I do not go on about how much a say UKIP has. I said they spread bullshit and are a political cesspit for the more stupid leavers. That’s it.

We have PR in Germany. We don’t in the UK otherwise UKIP would have had more representation than AfD. Not that AfD have more support than UKIP at their peak.

Grendel · Jun 27, 2018

martcov said:
Oh really o wise one. In which way? I merely pointed out the disgusting level to which this scumbag party has been reduced to as a fringe cesspit for the more stupid leavers.

Yeah unlike Germany one in six don’t vote for such parties

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (255 Viewers)

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