The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (113 Viewers)

Astute · Oct 29, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Good to see you've acknowledged that peace in Ireland is more important than Brexit.

Where have I ever said differently?

That is why I say that the EU has gone about it in the wrong way. More consideration should be given to past problems instead of using it as a reason to keep us in the EU. The EU should be in discussion with the UK on how to solve the problem instead of keep saying what are we going to do about it and then turning everything down. They should list what is acceptable and what isn't. Then they could discuss how to solve problems. And knowing whatever trade deal there will be would help with knowing what sort of border there would be.

Peoples lives are at stake.

Astute · Oct 29, 2018

Grendel said:
Peace in Ireland will not be threatened by Brexit

They can become a united Ireland whenever they want

I'm not so sure.

Is there going to be a border? If so where will it be? Will they have disagreements on the subject?

Do they want to unite? How would it be decided?

Sick Boy · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
Where have I ever said differently?

That is why I say that the EU has gone about it in the wrong way. More consideration should be given to past problems instead of using it as a reason to keep us in the EU. The EU should be in discussion with the UK on how to solve the problem instead of keep saying what are we going to do about it and then turning everything down. They should list what is acceptable and what isn't. Then they could discuss how to solve problems. And knowing whatever trade deal there will be would help with knowing what sort of border there would be.

Peoples lives are at stake.

It's not being used as a reason to keep the UK in the EU, both sides have been trying to find a way to retain an open border. However, if a country has goods that are banned in one country, how do you prevent it crossing over into the other country without checks/border?

Astute · Oct 29, 2018

Sick Boy said:
It's not being used as a reason to keep the UK in the EU, both sides have been trying to find a way to retain an open border. However, if a country has goods that are banned in one country, how do you prevent it crossing over into the other country without checks/border?

So what has the EU done about the situation?

Exactly. Nothing but telling us to come back with something else. Not exactly negotiating is it.

Sick Boy · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
So what has the EU done about the situation?

Exactly. Nothing but telling us to come back with something else. Not exactly negotiating is it.

They proposed keeping NI in the CU, which I'm sure May would have agreed to if it were not for the DUP.

As I said, it's a problem for the British government to solve. How are they supposed to negotiate on this?

It's either the UK aligns itself with EU standards and they don't decrease after Brexit, or there's a hard border.

Captain Dart · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
I'm not so sure.

Is there going to be a border? If so where will it be? Will they have disagreements on the subject?

Do they want to unite? How would it be decided?

The Northern Ireland Act 1998, a statute of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, provides that Northern Ireland will remain within the United Kingdom unless a majority of the people of Northern Ireland vote to form part of a united Ireland. It specifies that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland "shall exercise the power [to hold a referendum] if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland". Such referenda may not take place within seven years of each other.[15]

clint van damme · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
They should list what is acceptable and what isn't. Then they could discuss how to solve problems.

Peoples lives are at stake.

both sides did. And there were key areas which were problematic which both sides agreed needed solving before trade deal talks began.

This process is being tackled in the way our government agreed it would be. The problem is they didn't realise the complexity of what they were discussing and still seem to have their heads buried in the sand.

skybluetony176 · Oct 29, 2018

Sick Boy said:
You know full well that even if a majority were to vote for it, it would potentially result in a minority carrying out terrorism.

It will take decades for the fires of sectarianism to die out in certain areas of Northern Ireland if the island of Ireland was to unite. There’s still generations of bitter twisted men who will carry the torch and then there’s the whole issue of criminality being connected to sectarians. Anyone who thinks uniting Ireland will bring an ultimate piece is misguided. It could well bring a resurgence in loyalist terrorism and it won’t end things like kneecappings and beatings that are still happening.

Captain Dart · Oct 29, 2018

Merkel is gradually losing her grip on power.
Merkel 'to abandon key party role'

Grendel · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
I'm not so sure.

Is there going to be a border? If so where will it be? Will they have disagreements on the subject?

Do they want to unite? How would it be decided?

The Agreement allows Ireland to decide on a referendum on unity. The lack of a custom union agreement is really what the republicans will see as an opportunity to unify which they can do if they wish

Astute · Oct 29, 2018

Sick Boy said:
They proposed keeping NI in the CU, which I'm sure May would have agreed to if it were not for the DUP.

As I said, it's a problem for the British government to solve. How are they supposed to negotiate on this?

It's either the UK aligns itself with EU standards and they don't decrease after Brexit, or there's a hard border.

So you are saying that the EU is doing it's best to resolve the situation?

SkyblueBazza · Oct 29, 2018

Sick Boy said:
They proposed keeping NI in the CU, which I'm sure May would have agreed to if it were not for the DUP.

As I said, it's a problem for the British government to solve. How are they supposed to negotiate on this?

It's either the UK aligns itself with EU standards and they don't decrease after Brexit, or there's a hard border.

Does that indicate that sadly, peace in NI is important but not the be-all for either negotiating party?

One party is passing all responsibikity to the other party. The other party is risking peace by cow-towing to a virtual dark-age organisation.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Grendel · Oct 29, 2018

Sick Boy said:
They proposed keeping NI in the CU, which I'm sure May would have agreed to if it were not for the DUP.

As I said, it's a problem for the British government to solve. How are they supposed to negotiate on this?

It's either the UK aligns itself with EU standards and they don't decrease after Brexit, or there's a hard border.

A hard border which is policed just by the uk?

Sick Boy · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
So you are saying that the EU is doing it's best to resolve the situation?

Is the UK?

Sick Boy · Oct 29, 2018

Grendel said:
A hard border which is policed just by the uk?

It will ultimately be policed by both but it should have been obvious that it was going to lead to issues. It's again another aspect of Brexit which was not prepared for.

Captain Dart · Oct 29, 2018

and reality finally bites... wouldn't lay odds against her being forced out earlier thought.
Angela Merkel to step down in 2021

I wonder which of May or Merkel will be first to go?

Captain Dart · Oct 29, 2018

The UK is issuing a coin to celebrate our exit.

martcov · Oct 29, 2018

Astute said:
Where have I ever said differently?

That is why I say that the EU has gone about it in the wrong way. More consideration should be given to past problems instead of using it as a reason to keep us in the EU. The EU should be in discussion with the UK on how to solve the problem instead of keep saying what are we going to do about it and then turning everything down. They should list what is acceptable and what isn't. Then they could discuss how to solve problems. And knowing whatever trade deal there will be would help with knowing what sort of border there would be.

Peoples lives are at stake.

The EU were involved. The peace agreement was only possible because there is no visible border.

The EU have said how they would solve the problem and asked for a workable solution from the UK.

The UK rejected the offer and have yet to provide an alternative workable solution. The DUP being the sticking point.

There is no trade deal and there won’t be one until everyone knows if, and how any deal will be controlled at the border - which England, not Northern Ireland voted for.

That has been accepted by the UK.

martcov · Oct 29, 2018

Captain Dart said:
and reality finally bites... wouldn't lay odds against her being forced out earlier thought.
Angela Merkel to step down in 2021

I wonder which of May or Merkel will be first to go?

May.

martcov · Oct 29, 2018

Captain Dart said:
and reality finally bites... wouldn't lay odds against her being forced out earlier thought.
Angela Merkel to step down in 2021

I wonder which of May or Merkel will be first to go?

That is no major surprise and gives her plenty of time to manage the takeover. It also means she is carrying on regardless of threats from the SPD to sink the coalition.

Good move and it means she will win the party vote as leader in November.

Edit: she doesn’t want the party leadership either.. apparently

Astute · Oct 30, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Is the UK?

If we knew the full rules before we looked for a solution we would be able to look at the situation with more certainty.

Astute · Oct 30, 2018

Captain Dart said:
and reality finally bites... wouldn't lay odds against her being forced out earlier thought.
Angela Merkel to step down in 2021

I wonder which of May or Merkel will be first to go?

Yet some will still try and argue the point that many long standing political parties throughout the EU are losing votes. The unrest is getting worse. People have had enough of being dictated to by the EU.

Sick Boy · Oct 30, 2018

Astute said:
If we knew the full rules before we looked for a solution we would be able to look at the situation with more certainty.

The full rules of what?!

Sick Boy · Oct 30, 2018

Astute said:
Yet some will still try and argue the point that many long standing political parties throughout the EU are losing votes. The unrest is getting worse. People have had enough of being dictated to by the EU.

Are you on the wind up? What evidence is there that shows that Germans want to quit the EU based on this?

martcov · Oct 30, 2018

Astute said:
Yet some will still try and argue the point that many long standing political parties throughout the EU are losing votes. The unrest is getting worse. People have had enough of being dictated to by the EU.

Nothing at all to do with Merkel’s resignation. The EU has not even been mentioned in all this.

Main point of stress is still refugees and how to deal with future migration and integrate existing non EU migrants.

The AfD arose because of 1 Million refugees in one year. They are now claiming „mission accomplished“.

martcov · Oct 30, 2018

Astute said:
If we knew the full rules before we looked for a solution we would be able to look at the situation with more certainty.

We know the rules of the SM and CU, which includes borders to protect them, because we helped write them. The DUP and ERG are the people blocking a deal on the border issue.

The English Brexit voters wanted control of borders. Now, how does that work on the only land border with the EU? Still waiting for a workable solution...

The Lurker · Oct 30, 2018

looks like Germany have had enough now too

Herr Merkel and her liberal allies took a heavy smashing in the latest elections. The AFD also took 12% of the regional seats for the first time.

Merkel's support collapses and her opposition consolidates power!

"Both the parties in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's governing coalition have suffered heavy losses in a regional election, early results show."

Sick Boy · Oct 30, 2018

The Lurker said:
looks like Germany have had enough now too

Herr Merkel and her liberal allies took a heavy smashing in the latest elections. The AFD also took 12% of the regional seats for the first time.

Merkel's support collapses and her opposition consolidates power!

"Both the parties in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's governing coalition have suffered heavy losses in a regional election, early results show."

What evidence is there that this is due to anti-EU sentiment?

martcov · Oct 30, 2018

The Lurker said:
looks like Germany have had enough now too

Herr Merkel and her liberal allies took a heavy smashing in the latest elections. The AFD also took 12% of the regional seats for the first time.

Merkel's support collapses and her opposition consolidates power!

"Both the parties in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's governing coalition have suffered heavy losses in a regional election, early results show."

She won the state election, or at least, her coalition with the greens did.

The opposition? You mean the 12% party who are opposition more in name than reality?

Had enough of what? Merkel has three years to go. If all goes to plan, the CDU has three years to choose a new leader, Seehofer, CSU, is under pressure to resign from the cabinet and the AFD has had some of the wind taken out of it‘s sails.

skybluetony176 · Oct 30, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What evidence is there that this is due to anti-EU sentiment?

Merkels downfall is down to her domestic policy of offering an open invitation to Syrian refugees with no plan on how to move them causing a refugee train across the Mediterranean and then Eastern Europe. Domestic policy, nothing to do with the EU.

Astute · Oct 30, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Are you on the wind up? What evidence is there that shows that Germans want to quit the EU based on this?

Why do you always try and make out that I have said what I haven't? Or would you like to point out where I have said that Germany wants to leave the EU.

Merkel has run Germany under coalitions for years. But both sides of this coalition are losing votes like never before. Voters are changing who they vote for in most countries of the EU. This is what I have said. I haven't said any of them want to leave the EU either before you try that one. But it seems like people have had enough of something. Would you like to take a guess at what?

Astute · Oct 30, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Merkels downfall is down to her domestic policy of offering an open invitation to Syrian refugees with no plan on how to move them causing a refugee train across the Mediterranean and then Eastern Europe. Domestic policy, nothing to do with the EU.

Nothing to do with the borders being open once in the EU?

And I suppose open borders inside the EU has nothing to do with the EU?

Open borders make life a lot easier. I do a lot of driving through Europe. But you can't pretend that it doesn't bring problems. And to solve this problem they are causing more. There is no easy answer.

One more thing. Why didn't the votes for her plummet after the event and not wait until now?

Astute · Oct 30, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What evidence is there that this is due to anti-EU sentiment?

What evidence do we have in any direction?

skybluetony176 · Oct 30, 2018

Astute said:
Nothing to do with the borders being open once in the EU?

And I suppose open borders inside the EU has nothing to do with the EU?

Open borders make life a lot easier. I do a lot of driving through Europe. But you can't pretend that it doesn't bring problems. And to solve this problem they are causing more. There is no easy answer.

One more thing. Why didn't the votes for her plummet after the event and not wait until now?

So borders have stopped the refugee train that’s sweeping its way to the USA now? The problem was that that the people were motivated to make the journey regardless of how perilous that was of the back of what Merkel said.

The votes plummeted at the first opportunity there was to vote.

Grendel · Oct 30, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What evidence is there that this is due to anti-EU sentiment?

The AFD wants to return to the National currency and abandon the Euro

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (113 Viewers)

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