dutchman
Well-Known Member
It was actually YOU that quoted it as an example of the benefits of EU membership!
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
It was actually YOU that quoted it as an example of the benefits of EU membership!Yeah you not taking advantage of cheaper roaming charges is absolutely a very strong example of the negative effects of the EU.
Freedom to live and work in an EEA country, cheaper phone calls, free access to health services in an EEA country.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.But you're the guy who's taken advantage of the welcoming and tolerant nature of the British people for 60 years but now want to stop other europeans coming here so I'll take what you say with a pinch of salt.
Ok. I'll give you an example. The mandatory contracting out of public services driven by the public contracts directive, it has led to widespread privatisation and decline in wages and conditions.
My landline charges escalated to the point where I was forced to switch to another supplier.My phone bill gets cheaper and cheaper with each new contract, I get more and more text and minutes to the point both are now unlimited, data usage increases year on year and I get a new phone each year and each year it’s an upgrade. If the cost is being past on to the rest of us I have to say I’m not feeling it.
It was actually YOU that quoted it as an example of the benefits of EU membership!
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Thanks for the response. How much have your wages decreased by? And how? Are you self-employed? I don't know much about the fitness industry so would appreciate a bit of info on how it works.
Sure, It’s a minimum wage job in the employed industry and a lot are qualified and can under undercut in the self employed industry.
I am actually both I have a part time employed job which is minimum wage and self employed business which is competitive. I’m hurt more by the employed status.
It’s not just my industry so for example my best mate who is a builder who has no interest in politics actually who often brings up cases of polish in particular builders charging almost half for a job. My mate has a family and mortgage to pay for but they live many to a house via renting I.e no family there and send money home also to their family.
To clarify I am for immigration but controlled immigration in sensible numbers.
I just gave you one and amplified on it in the post immediately above yours.Well my question was 'how has the EU negatively impacted your daily life' and you responded with a complaint about roaming charges so it's pretty logical to assume your complaint about roaming charges was an example of how the EU had negatively impacted your daily life. I did indeed use cheaper roaming charges as an example of a personal positive for me of the EU.
So what is your example?
I just gave you one and amplified on it in the post immediately above yours.
Because the cost of providing cheaper mobile roaming was passed onto landline customers like me.Your landline costs increased? So you changed to another provider? Because of mobile roaming charges?
My landline charges escalated to the point where I was forced to switch to another supplier.
You don't see how the EU forcing mobile suppliers to reduce their charges also forced them to increase their landline charges to compensate? Did you think they were going to pay for it out of their own pockets?Don’t have a landline so couldn’t say. It pays to shop and swap every year though same as gas, electricity, insurance ect. I’d suggest that you’ve been the victim of loyalty to a supplier and paid the price. Unless the EU forced you to do it, which of course they didn’t, I’m not sure how they’re responsible.
Because the cost of providing cheaper mobile roaming was passed onto landline customers like me.
I downgraded from expensive but reliable supplier to a cheaper but less reliable one. They're no cheaper than the reliable supplier was originally.So why were you able to find a cheaper landline deal? Are they losing money?
You don't see how the EU forcing mobile suppliers to reduce their charges forced them to increase their landline charges to compensate? Did you think they were going to pay for it out of their own pockets?
Sorry but if you're on minimum wage it can't go any lower can it? Am I missing something?
I didn't 'shop around' because I rely 100% on a landline and BT were the only people who could repair it quickly in the event of a failure.I think you’ve assumed that the cost has been passed onto you but the reality is you haven’t shopped around and been took advantage of.
That’s correct and that was my meaning. It’s being kept that low just by over supply of Labour to do that job.
I don’t hate the EU and everything it’s stands for but unskilled immigration in to this country has undeniably kept wages rock bottom and it’s the worst 15 years we’ve ever known wages wise due to the eastern bloc joining. Big business loves the EU largely for this reason. Cheaper builders. Cheaper nannies cheaper cleaners. Cheaper workers essentially.
I didn't 'shop around' because I rely 100% on a landline and BT were the only people who could repair it quickly in the event of a failure.
Jesus H.I didn't 'shop around' because I rely 100% on a landline and BT were the only people who could repair it quickly in the event of a failure.
Decline in wages and conditions for the contractors or the procurers? I had a quick look at the directive but it's friday night and it's very long. Please give me a tldr if you're able. I remember from the gmk days you always had your head on your shoulders so was a bit surprised when I saw you here semi-proposing brexit. I guessed there was a reason.
For the staff delivering services, you'll have the incumbent staff covered by TUPE to a certain degree but new staff have inferior pay and conditions. Eventually through natural wastage the going rate for a job is diminished.
I agonised over the referendum and was instinctively remain as on the face of it that felt safest. However, I couldn't see past how I see how EU rules manifest in the work I do (I'm a procurer) and how ultimately it's a pro-market institution that creates rules that favour corporations over sovereign states. That said, the way 30 years of UK governments have chosen to implement EU rules is our problem.
Having said all that, if it was a choice between no deal and remain I'd go remain.
Things are going great, not long now
Not long now til what?
Before the EU disintegrates.
It has become tribal to a fair few yes. I certainly know that.I think 'absurd' is a bit strong tbh. My point is that most of the arguments are regurgitations of the opposing sides' soundbites. It's become a tribal issue. 'Typical lefties v racists'. My assumption is that a lot of this stems from the media rather than from what people actually experience, so I'm looking for some anecdotes to back up the media presentation of the negative impact of the EU.
Our government does not decide pay rates. They decide the minimum wage. And on top of the minimum wage the government pays a top up for those not earning enough. And we have to pay for this out of the tax we pay. Wages are suppressed because of the larger workforce.That doesn't make any sense tbh. You said your wages had gone down but they haven't. Immigrants don't dictate what the minimum wage is, our government does. Wages being shit isn't to do with europe mate, our government decided on austerity. They made us bail out the banks and then fucked us over. Our own government. They're creaming themselves knowing that everyone's blaming the EU for their nastiness.
A massive oversupply of non skilled Labour from Eastern Europe has directly lowered my wage in the fitness industry and also my friends who are builders who have to now compete with them who can do the same job for half the price because they don’t have the same outgoings. Lower wages have massively hurt me.
We pay a net 10 billion pounds of taxpayers money. That 10 billion could be spent here in my opinion. Other countries don’t have that financial burden.
Fruit and food in general is a lot more expensive because of the EU customs union being protectionist. The EU directly apply tariffs to fruit for example from outside the EU to protect EU fruit producers keeping the prices artificially high. I know a few pence isn’t massive but it’s the point and soon adds up. It’s a big reason why Tim Martin of weatherspoons wants to just leave. This also applies to a lot of products.
I could go on but I’ve made my point and I hope sincerely you understand my points. Happy to debate them.
There was a programme about people living in illegal accommodation a few years ago. It was not specifically about immigrants but it featured among others a Romanian couple with two children who were being evicted. A social worker was on hand to give them advice. They were amazed to find that on top of the £200 the husband was earning they also qualified for another £230 a week in top up payments.Our government does not decide pay rates. They decide the minimum wage. And on top of the minimum wage the government pays a top up for those not earning enough. And we have to pay for this out of the tax we pay. Wages are suppressed because of the larger workforce.
Tim Martin is a glorified publican, not an economist.
It has become tribal to a fair few yes. I certainly know that.
I try to put both sides to the story. But I constantly get bashed by one side. And what is that for? Mentioning how people get affected by unregulated FOM is a big one. I have seen with my own eyes the changes. My eldest and her husband managed to get on the housing ladder early. They now have a 4 bed house that even has a games room. The younger the kids the harder it was. Now I fear for my younger kids futures. So I am giving them a house to share until on their feet. When sold they share the money. No rent payable so they have a chance of getting a deposit together. Homelessness is a massive problem. Yes it isn't the fault of those who have come to live here. But it is a major contributing fact. Yet when I mention this fact I am supposed to be scapegoating immigrants. Not at all. I remember how cheap housing was when there was a plentiful supply. In the 90's I bought my first house. It was a 3 bed semi that cost me 26k. Now I would need much more than that just for the plot of land it sits on. It is all about supply and demand.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Our government does not decide pay rates. They decide the minimum wage. And on top of the minimum wage the government pays a top up for those not earning enough. And we have to pay for this out of the tax we pay. Wages are suppressed because of the larger workforce.
Immigration has hardly made a difference where I live. You can buy a 2 bed terraced house for less than 40k not too far away. And it isn't because of low wages. Companies either have to pay a decent wage or they don't get the workers. We get a lot of workers from elsewhere who stay here Monday to Friday as they earn much more here than where they live.
That’s correct and that was my meaning. It’s being kept that low just by over supply of Labour to do that job.
I don’t hate the EU and everything it’s stands for but unskilled immigration in to this country has undeniably kept wages rock bottom and it’s the worst 15 years we’ve ever known wages wise due to the eastern bloc joining. Big business loves the EU largely for this reason. Cheaper builders. Cheaper nannies cheaper cleaners. Cheaper workers essentially.
You've made some really good points
However, my worry has always been, and still is, that things will get much worse if the likes of Rees Mogg and his cronies take over the reigns of what for me, is already a shocking government.
His book, the sovereign individual is a manual for disaster capitalism and how to run the country for the benefit of him and his neo liberal pals.
How the like of him, Farage, Boris etc have managed to portray themselves as anti elite absolutely baffles me every time I think about it.
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