Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Think it was more the economy being about to collapse
It was a joint thing between Smith making the Labour party good again and policies from the Tories. Once people saw through him he got out.
Social attitude surveys show very little difference between England and Scotland
No I was quoting a source I can quote others if you wish
I don’t think Mr Corbyn took action against the story did he?
And when was the last time the UK had a true left wing government?
Every cycle? We are on a run of Tory Govts which started with a coalition and has ended with something similar. Before that we had the Blair Govts which commanded huge majorities. what is it 12 Tory Govts vs 9 Labour since WW2? Hardly conclusiveSo why do the Tories get away with it every cycle
Because nobody reads the manifesto and believes the poshos
So how do they not win an election? The swing vote is there.Seems to me like the whole bundle of policies is popular. More to the point they are mainstream in some parts of Europe.
Throw that against Tory pledges to deny teachers a pay rise, reinstate a 3 tier education system, grant above inflation increases to military funding etc
So how do they not win an election? The swing vote is there.
Is Labour so wholly untrustworthy that it isn't to be believed? Nonsense we've had modern Labour Govts.
Is Corbyn so unpopular that he negates all the policy appeal? Can't be.
Maybe the rumours of him being ousted if there was a Labour win at the last election were off-putting? Doubtful.
Last 3 elections show the Tories were there for the taking so why couldn't it be done?
Have to applaud Speaker telling MPs that they are not traitors and are voting with their consciences.
Maybe the way forward is to properly remove the whip system completely to allow free votes on all issues. But maybe only when they can repair the perceived disconnect between politicians and their voters.
But surely the Blair majorities showed there are enough swing voters to make a big difference? Took an 8% ?? swing to get him in and even 2 notable swings away in next 2 elections still saw him hold big majorities.Labour's No.1 problem is losing Scotland at the moment. It makes an outright majority very difficult as it stands. There is a big proportion of swing voters, but it only impacts if they are in marginal seats. Having swing voters in safe seats has no impact.
But surely the Blair majorities showed there are enough swing voters to make a big difference? Took an 8% ?? swing to get him in and even 2 notable swings away in next 2 elections still saw him hold big majorities.
And when was the last time the UK had a true left wing government?
Slightly ironic as it was the day Blair came out with his opposition to a European superstate and single currency that The Sun switched sidesIt is worth pointing out that he achieved a big swing after being 'endorsed' by the UK's biggest selling newspaper at the time.
driving the country off the cliff
I want to remain. I want close trading ties with our closest neighbours. The whole thing is madness.
Second best is being in the customs union, because no amount of trade deals with fucking Timbuktu will make up for the size of the lost market.
Waaaaaaay down the list is a no deal that makes us butt buddies to the US and china.
Wrong. Have had enough of the idiots that don't want a debate but constantly post crap.You avoided it because you assumed I wouldn’t engage. I can and will
Sounds like you don't have a clue about John Smith and what he did for Labour. This is what we should be looking for. Corbyn wasn't even fit to clean the shoes of the man.Think it was more the economy being about to collapse
Wrong. Have had enough of the idiots that don't want a debate but constantly post crap.
UKIP's level of support at last GE showed what people thought of their politics once they moved from basically a single issue party to a far right agenda 1.8% of votes cast.
I'd like to see some data about these polls that show how popular they are but aren't so much when voters are told they belong to the Labour Party.
Why is it people like the policies but not the party? Surely good policies is what swings votes. The current UK swing vote is around 40% and on a steady increase. It's certainly what helped put New Labour in.
what do you mean by "socially liberal" or is it the American "socially liberal, fiscally conservative"?
So how about as far back as yesterday when he walked out of a very important meeting because an ex Labour MP was invited?
It isn't bad press. It is bad decisions.
Even if you were the leader of the Labour party and wanted to put your views and thoughts ahead on Brexit?I wouldn't sit in a room with ummana he's a snake.
Even if you were the leader of the Labour party and wanted to put your views and thoughts ahead on Brexit?
Of course you would.
Starmer has been the one for me for a long time. He had a successful career before going into politics. He isn't in politics for the money or to have a career. He always worked to help people in need as a barrister. And he was also DPP and Head of the Crown Prosecution Service.The meeting was a waste of time as confirmed by Vince cable.
The independents are a bunch of ego maniacs who should have had the bollocks to resign when they quit their parties.
I get the general point your driving at but like I say, I'd be quite happy to have another leader with the similar policies but is there a candidate?
Starmer has been the one for me for a long time. He had a successful career before going into politics. He isn't in politics for the money or to have a career. He always worked to help people in need as a barrister. And he was also DPP and Head of the Crown Prosecution Service.
Missing the point.Socially liberal/identity politics/SJW crap focusing on “social justice” rather than economic justice. Being anti-police and anti-military. Left wing social authoritarianism stuff. The Dems in the states have a similar problem.
UKIP collapsed because of the referendum. Before that, there was quite a debate in the party over stuff like privatising the NHS for example. They’re an alt-right meme party now not a serious party so pretty irrelevant.
As for polls: How popular are the parties’ manifesto policies? | YouGov
First result on google. Last elections policies. Take out the immigration stuff and all the economic stuff (even from the Tories) that’s popular is left wing (more money for NHS, raise NMW etc) and there’s a good argument the left wing position economically on immigration should be against it.
Here’s another from a couple of months ago on Corbyns policies specifically: Eurotrack: Corbyn’s policies popular in Europe and UK | YouGov
And an older article on Green Party policies;
If people voted for policies, the Green Party would win the next
Sounds like you don't have a clue about John Smith and what he did for Labour. This is what we should be looking for. Corbyn wasn't even fit to clean the shoes of the man.
John Smith would have led us to a decent world | John McTernan
So what do you think of the man now?
Based on what?You see this is what people who've never negotiated a deal don't get. They swallow Guardian garbage like 'cliff edge' and 'crash out' without understanding that the best way to get a great deal, a close trading relationship, is to walk away.
No deal = great deal.
Maybe she did that because the EU made it absolutely clear their red lines were absolutely unmoveable...so she said & did the same?May has refused point blank to renegotiate her red lines either with our sovereign parliament or the EU. Where’s her negotiation?
Maybe she did that because the EU made it absolutely clear their red lines were absolutely unmoveable...so she said & did the same?
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Their red lines are written into a series of treaties that form the basis of the EU that cannot just be undone.Maybe she did that because the EU made it absolutely clear their red lines were absolutely unmoveable...so she said & did the same?
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You're conflating a political negotiation with somebody trying to buy something in an open market, nonsensical tbh.You see this is what people who've never negotiated a deal don't get. They swallow Guardian garbage like 'cliff edge' and 'crash out' without understanding that the best way to get a great deal, a close trading relationship, is to walk away.
No deal = great deal.
Or maybe pandering to the noisy minority remain vote campIt’s got more to do with pandering to a minority in her party I would think. She was up against prominent leavers in the leadership contest who all pulled out leaving her to take the job unchallenged. I don’t know but I suspect that the red lines were agreed as part of that process. It certainly explains why she won’t negotiate them with parliament or the more centralist elements in her own party.
They have foind it easy enough to change things & allow an extension when the chips are down...so I feel sure it can actually be easily undoneTheir red lines are written into a series of treaties that form the basis of the EU that cannot just be undone.
May's red lines are a mixture of pet projects of hers and pandering to various factions in the Tory party.
I'm not sure what the final outcome will be, but I know the EU have had to play a very hard line, they can't afford to show any weakness to the UK because that would undermine the whole project. I do know that (even though they are trying to hide it well) that the EU is considered to be on the brink of recession by leading financial experts with Germany considered to go very soon. A no deal brexit would be disastrous for them so I think some last minute concessions will be made to force through an agreement.Their red lines are written into a series of treaties that form the basis of the EU that cannot just be undone.
May's red lines are a mixture of pet projects of hers and pandering to various factions in the Tory party.
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