The Guardian Coventry City Face Homeless future after Sisu's litigious aggression (1 Viewer)

[GlastoSkyBlue]

I wonder what portion of that "£36m" went to paying directors and paying off former managers contracts. It certainly didn't go on players surely... Although I guess player wages might have been silly in the championship... Wasn't (I shudder to say his name) Kevin Kyle on a fat wedge?

 

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[Grendel]

I wonder what portion of that "£36m" went to paying directors and paying off former managers contracts. It certainly didn't go on players surely... Although I guess player wages might have been silly in the championship... Wasn't (I shudder to say his name) Kevin Kyle on a fat wedge?

Doyle was the highest earner

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Doyle was the highest earner

And so he sould have been.

 

[GlastoSkyBlue]

Doyle was the highest earner

Really? Even more so than Wise when he was with us? No wonder he stayed for so long first time round. Good player though so can't really complain.

 

[Grendel]

Really? Even more so than Wise when he was with us? No wonder he stayed for so long first time round. Good player though so can't really complain.

He was awful in the championship and a major factor in our mediocrity - the wage was between £13 and £18k a week depending on who you believe

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

He was awful in the championship and a major factor in our mediocrity - the wage was between £13 and £18k a week depending on who you believe

He did win our Player of the Year award at that level once. And I heard nearer 10k, unless you are adjusting for inflation. But rumours do tend to swell with age...

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

He was awful in the championship and a major factor in our mediocrity - the wage was between £13 and £18k a week depending on who you believe

Doyle wasn't our midfield weak link in the Championship, and was the sort of player that most successful Championship teams have in their team. The problem more often than not was with his midfield partners, like Clingan and Hughes, who simply weren't attacking or positive enough. Our best periods in the Championship were when Doyle was partnered with Gudjonsson and later Wise, but unfortunately we never found that type of partner for a more prolonged period of time. Not sure we would have got relegated if he had stayed and who knows, players like Bigirimana and Connor Thomas might have had more chance of fulfilling their potential if he had done.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

How is it Waffle? Try disproving the points.

I haven't said he is on any payroll have I? I have said he is again very much pushing an approach that Wasps are the goodies. (see other link for further confirmation) and it strangely seems to coincide with the same views being pushed, articles in the telegraph about wasps having a healthy financial position etc.

Who's payroll were the trust / supporters direct on when they were working with the Council's PR company? Doesn't have to be a payroll, just a matching agenda / approach. Maybe they think that by trying to big Wasps up it means it is getting one over on SISU. Just the same as the Trust were trying to cosy up when they moved here after condemning clubs moving for months before.

It's all well and good just saying "waffle" over and over again, people said that when I have pointed it out every time. It's been obvious for a few weeks, I pointed it out on the other thread and explained exactly why for you but you didn't reply.

It's all about public perception. Get Wasps lined up as the goodies, just trying to help and SISU / CCFC the baddies. Refer back to that article in 2014 when Wasps moved as a perfect example of it from David Conn and the Trust.

You can bury your head in the sand about it though if you want, it gets a bit more noticeable the more time goes on to most.

1. I’d like you to produce the evidence that we were working with the Council’s PR company.

2. In September/October 2014 we organised and ran a public meeting regarding Wasps’ move and what we could do to stop it. At a couple of days notice it was attended by Pete Rossborough, Tim Fisher and a couple of hundred City & Cov fans. John Fletcher who was on our board at the time said “it would never have happened in his day” and was even asked by Fisher (the two didn’t get on) what he suggested the football club should do.

 

[Fishy Tim]

Great article , Sums Sisu up beautifully .

 

[Grendel]

Doyle wasn't our midfield weak link in the Championship, and was the sort of player that most successful Championship teams have in their team. The problem more often than not was with his midfield partners, like Clingan and Hughes, who simply weren't attacking or positive enough. Our best periods in the Championship were when Doyle was partnered with Gudjonsson and later Wise, but unfortunately we never found that type of partner for a more prolonged period of time. Not sure we would have got relegated if he had stayed and who knows, players like Bigirimana and Connor Thomas might have had more chance of fulfilling their potential if he had done.

Rubbish

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

Rubbish

He's clearly another one of your many 'hate' figures that play, or have played for us. It must have really torn at you last season when he was getting so many plaudits, so much so that the hatred just oozes out of every post where you mention him.

 

[Grendel]

He's clearly another one of your many 'hate' figures that play, or have played for us. It must have really torn at you last season when he was getting so many plaudits, so much so that the hatred just oozes out of every post where you mention him.

Hardly I said he’d played well less season above my expectations.

Like baker though the championship was always above his level

 

[chiefdave]

In September/October 2014 we organised and ran a public meeting regarding Wasps’ move and what we could do to stop it. At a couple of days notice it was attended by Pete Rossborough, Tim Fisher and a couple of hundred City & Cov fans. John Fletcher who was on our board at the time said “it would never have happened in his day” and was even asked by Fisher (the two didn’t get on) what he suggested the football club should do.

Must have missed the Trust's protests against Wasps being parachuted into the city. Have to say in all honesty the impression I got was that the trust welcomed them with open arms. Seem to recall those in senior positions at the Trust heaping praise on them.

But to matters in hand are the trust planning to put pressure on Wasps to ensure CCFC continue to play at the Ricoh? I've looked on the Trust site but can't see anything.

 

[Nick]

1. I’d like you to produce the evidence that we were working with the Council’s PR company.

2. In September/October 2014 we organised and ran a public meeting regarding Wasps’ move and what we could do to stop it. At a couple of days notice it was attended by Pete Rossborough, Tim Fisher and a couple of hundred City & Cov fans. John Fletcher who was on our board at the time said “it would never have happened in his day” and was even asked by Fisher (the two didn’t get on) what he suggested the football club should do.

1. Somebody using a supporters direct email wasn't it? Hence them or a member. Must be somebody at supporters direct then if nobody related to the trust?

2. Have you got a link? The trust were meeting with wasps in October and endorsing them in the link for the other conn article in December I think?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Must have missed the Trust's protests against Wasps being parachuted into the city. Have to say in all honesty the impression I got was that the trust welcomed them with open arms. Seem to recall those in senior positions at the Trust heaping praise on them.

But to matters in hand are the trust planning to put pressure on Wasps to ensure CCFC continue to play at the Ricoh? I've looked on the Trust site but can't see anything.

This is why I have no time for the trust, the future of our football club is at stake and they're silent. They should be fan representatives but they've become too involved in the politics.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

1. Somebody using a supporters direct email wasn't it? Hence them or a member. Must be somebody at supporters direct then?

2. Have you got a link? The trust were meeting with wasps in October and endorsing them in the link for the other conn article in December I think?

It wasn’t us. We’ve never used a PR company and that is reflected in our accounts. I will try to dig out the report or minutes for you. In the meantime this tweet is from that meeting. I’ll try to find some others.

Edit:

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

The story by David Conn outlines the catastrophe that Sisu have been for our club. The Fact he says that Sisu wasted 36 million on players (they claim to have lost a lot more than that) or that Wasps play in front of full houses each week, clearly they don’t, doesn’t alter that. I have no time for Wasps, they shouldn’t be here. However, I don’t see that artical as pro Wasps. It simply shows what a disaster Sisu have been and continue to be. They continue to jeopardise the future of this club by using court actions to try and distress Wasps with no thought or care for the implications this has on CCFC. I can’t see why anyone who wants the best for our club would ignore or deflect these facts and nit pick at an artical which highlights our plight.

 

[Nick]

It wasn’t us. We’ve never used a PR company and that is reflected in our accounts. I will try to dig out the report or minutes for you. In the meantime this tweet is from that meeting. I’ll try to find some others.

No I wasn't saying you used one. If nothing to do with the trust then supporters direct took it upon themselves to work with the council's pr company. Apologies, won't mention it as the trust.

The 9th October the trust met with wasps, 11th there's an article saying how promising and encouraging it was.

Sky Blue Trust - Sky Blue Trust Meet Wasps

A very quick turnaround if the trust were so against it on the 6th?

 

[Liquid Gold]

I hate the 'raises our plight in the media' argument. This has been going on for years, any football fan with half a brain knows what's going on here and the rest don't care. Publicity has done fuck all for us when we needed it most so I don't see what it's going to do now.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

I would say pressure should be put on Sisu to go and seek a favourable deal with Wasps after all we should be the ones asking we need somewhere to play not them . This ensuring we continue to play at the Ricoh is no good we only continue to play there if we play ball (sorry) and stop complaining this wrong that's wrong. Sisu never negotiate they should try it sometime they might just be surprised at the result as at the moment threats have got them nowhere

 

[Nick]

I hate the 'raises our plight in the media' argument. This has been going on for years, any football fan with half a brain knows what's going on here and the rest don't care. Publicity has done fuck all for us when we needed it most so I don't see what it's going to do now.

It's a lazy argument that means nothing. Said for 99% of them it will make no difference but it's all about "the plight". Changes absolutely nothing and makes no different.

It's just like clapping seals because somebody basically says "sisu bad". That's not me saying they are good, just how easy it is to say "sisu bad" and get away with anything. Perfect example is the whole higgs thing, everybody had been so worked up about sisu by the time the news came out that there was barely much said in wasps direction.

The other bit is the love in with other clubs and their "plights".

 

[covmark]

I hate the 'raises our plight in the media' argument. This has been going on for years, any football fan with half a brain knows what's going on here and the rest don't care. Publicity has done fuck all for us when we needed it most so I don't see what it's going to do now.

Completely agree. Tbh I've never got the old 'gets our situation out to the wider public' rhetoric.
The wider public couldn't give a shit.
Take Conns article. The readers of that piece would have maybe if we're lucky, thought "oh, poor Coventry". Then put the paper down, and started wanking over the weeks champions league games.
It makes fuck all difference how many people know of our plight.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Silsden]

I’ve met David Conn several times and he’s done several talks at my pub covering ownership in football. He’s a big advocate of fan ownership but is very realistic in saying that the model would only be viable up to a certain point in the football league, but he would like fan groups to have some stake in their clubs and greater representation in them.

First and foremost he’s a football fan and I think he tries to champion fan interests and causes which is no bad thing. He’s an exceptional journalist, has won sports journalist of the year in the past, and his work on Hillsborough in particular is incredible. He’s got a lot of amusing, and often pretty scary anecdotes about football owners, and is very cynical towards people who get involved in football ownership.

Personally speaking I think it’s a good thing he’s helping to try and keep some attention on our situation at a national level, hopefully putting some pressure on Sisu to give up on the court cases and get a longer term deal at the Ricoh sorted. The biggest shame in this is that whenever we seem to be making progress as a club on the pitch the whole ‘we’re homeless in a few months’ issue comes back and threatens to erode the positive wave we’re riding.

 

[Nick]

I’ve met David Conn several times and he’s done several talks at my pub covering ownership in football. He’s a big advocate of fan ownership but is very realistic in saying that the model would only be viable up to a certain point in the football league, but he would like fan groups to have some stake in their clubs and greater representation in them.

First and foremost he’s a football fan and I think he tries to champion fan interests and causes which is no bad thing. He’s an exceptional journalist, has won sports journalist of the year in the past, and his work on Hillsborough in particular is incredible. He’s got a lot of amusing, and often pretty scary anecdotes about football owners, and is very cynical towards people who get involved in football ownership.

Personally speaking I think it’s a good thing he’s helping to try and keep some attention on our situation at a national level, hopefully putting some pressure on Sisu to give up on the court cases and get a longer term deal at the Ricoh sorted. The biggest shame in this is that whenever we seem to be making progress as a club on the pitch the whole ‘we’re homeless in a few months’ issue comes back and threatens to erode the positive wave we’re riding.

How in any way does his article pressure sisu though?

As a big advocate of fans and the cause, why has he been so keen to champion the wasps move?

We still are making progress on the pitch, there is no doubt that people will want to go out of their way to take the focus off that though. That has happened every time, no doubt if we have a bit of a bad run it will be jumped on and taken advantage of.

The will be people with bed sheets at the ready just waiting to get a protest on the go after a few bad results.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

No I wasn't saying you used one. If nothing to do with the trust then supporters direct took it upon themselves to work with the council's pr company. Apologies, won't mention it as the trust.

The 9th October the trust met with wasps, 11th there's an article saying how promising and encouraging it was.

Sky Blue Trust - Sky Blue Trust Meet Wasps

A very quick turnaround if the trust were so against it on the 6th?

You stated we were working with one. Anyway pleased we’ve got that cleared up. We met with Nick to get assurances certain conditions would be met (Saturday games, the willingness to have CCFC there, etc). That has been the case up until the legals were ramped up and they were a named party. Whether the two are linked is up for debate. You can probably guess what my opinion is on that.

You know my view. Wasps should be in London. Not Wycombe. Not Coventry. Putting that to one side though what would you do if you were them? Roll over or put up some form of resistance unless the legals are dropped? That’s the key thing here. If SISU/Otium drop the ridiculous legals the immediate important issue goes away. That should be the main focus for now shouldn’t it?

 

[Nick]

You stated we were working with one. Anyway pleased we’ve got that cleared up. We met with Nick to get assurances certain conditions would be met (Saturday games, the willingness to have CCFC there, etc). That has been the case up until the legals were ramped up and they were a named party.

You know my view. Wasps should be in London. Not Wycombe. Not Coventry. Putting that to one side though what would you do if you were them? Roll over or put up some form of resistance unless the legals are dropped? That’s the key thing here. If SISU/Otium drop the ridiculous legals the immediate important issue goes away. That should be the main focus for now shouldn’t it?

I am pretty sure I put sd / trust as one or the other. If nothing to do with the trust it was supporters direct working with one.

You have then gone on to give a "I don't like wasps but..." post. You have said how the trust were so against it, 3 days later they had done a massive u turn and it was positive. Also allowed somebody to make a statement after one of their first games to say how great it was compared to our games...

The legals were there last year and a deal got done didn't it? The focus should be on ccfc.

That's not saying you must love sisu and never say a bad word against them. It's saying that just because Wasps, council , ACL etc have the same "enemy" in sisu it means that they shouldn't be off limits.

First and foremost the focus should be on ccfc. Wasps have said to you that they won't do a deal while the legals are on (they did last year) and it reads like you are now just focused on the legals while wasps can get away with anything and just use the "it was sisu" line. Same as the higgs stuff.

There's nothing stopping the focus being on a deal for ccfc. By all means that could be shouting at sisu about legals as one method. Not the Only method, it can still involve shouting at wasps.

 

[Silsden]

How in any way does his article pressure sisu?

I’d say negative publicity for them we all know that’s of no concern to Sisu. In no way will they look at that and decide they’ve got things wrong and give up. It’s a pretty damning condemnation of the way the club has been mismanaged that has lead us to questioning where games will be played next year again, and at least it’s an attempt to exert some pressure on a national level. Can’t really see why it’s being viewed in such a negative light.

 

[chiefdave]

If SISU/Otium drop the ridiculous legals the immediate important issue goes away. That should be the main focus for now shouldn’t it?

In my opinion 100% the wrong stance to take and certainly, as a trust member, not the one I would want the trust to take.

Sure its a great theory but how do you put pressure on SISU? Quite simply you can't, you're trying to fight someone that has not the slightest interest what happens to me, you, the trust, the club or anyone else. They certainly couldn't care less about CCFC.

In fact you can make an argument that CCFC being forced out of the Ricoh, and potentially out of existence, would be of benefit to them given the legal route is clearly the one they will continue to pursue. Should they ever manage to win a case the compensation claim for a club forced out of existence would surely dwarf anything currently being considered.

The simple fact is there is only one party any of us can realistically attempt to influence to ensure the club remain at the Ricoh and that is Wasps.

Those running the football club on a day to day basis have on more than one occasion attempted to agree a longer term deal to stay, on at least two occasions being confident enough to announce to the fans those talks are going well, indeed that fact has been confirmed by Wasps. On each occasion it is Wasps who have walked away and refused to talk and at present we have the club wishing to speak about a new deal and Wasps refusing to engage. It really couldn't be any clearer.

There's no doubt in my mind a campaign against them, and the negative PR that brings, would soon have them talking to the club again.

 

[Nick]

I’d say negative publicity for them we all know that’s of no concern to Sisu. In no way will they look at that and decide they’ve got things wrong and give up. It’s a pretty damning condemnation of the way the club has been mismanaged that has lead us to questioning where games will be played next year again, and at least it’s an attempt to exert some pressure on a national level. Can’t really see why it’s being viewed in such a negative light.

Again, how is it going to change or do anything?

What pressure is being exerted?

You didn't answer the other points. It's negative because of the strange wasps stuff he has now pushed more than once. It's pretty blatant.

 

[Silsden]

How in any way does his article pressure sisu though?

As a big advocate of fans and the cause, why has he been so keen to champion the wasps move?

We still are making progress on the pitch, there is no doubt that people will want to go out of their way to take the focus off that though. That has happened every time, no doubt if we have a bit of a bad run it will be jumped on and taken advantage of.

The will be people with bed sheets at the ready just waiting to get a protest on the go after a few bad results.

I agree that it feels really crap to bring us down in the middle of a good run, and the protests only really happen when things are going wrong.

I can’t say I’ve read anything outside of this article he’s written about the wasps move, but it reads to me he’s advocating the councils decision to sell rather than the wasps owners moving their club out of their support base

 

[Silsden]

Again, how is it going to change or do anything?

What pressure is being exerted?

You didn't answer the other points. It's negative because of the strange wasps stuff he has now pushed more than once. It's pretty blatant.

I only just read the other points mate

 

[Nick]

I agree that it feels really crap to bring us down in the middle of a good run, and the protests only really happen when things are going wrong.

I can’t say I’ve read anything outside of this article he’s written about the wasps move, but it reads to me he’s advocating the councils decision to sell rather than the wasps owners moving their club out of their support base

He's been very positive about wasps. Not really the approach of somebody who is doing it for the fans. To the point of misleading about it in this recent article.

The one when they first moved set the tone early.

As I said, people won't want the feel good factor about ccfc. It won't suit them.

 

[Silsden]

He's been very positive about wasps. Not really the approach of somebody who is doing it for the fans. To the point of misleading about it in this recent article.

Like I said, having met him and had quite a few chats with him about the issue, I know he’s got nothing but sympathy towards Cov fans and he absolutely hates Sisu. Never talked to him about wasps but can’t see how he’d be a fan of their decision to relocate away from longstanding supporters.

I think he’s trying to highlight the opportunities Sisu have lost to the detriment of the club and supporters, and someone else has moved in to take those opportunities and capitalise on them. I might be wrong, as I’ve said I’ve not read anything else he’s written about wasps, and can’t be bothered to at the moment as I’m trying to watch the apprentice

 

[Nick]

Like I said, having met him and had quite a few chats with him about the issue, I know he’s got nothing but sympathy towards Cov fans and he absolutely hates Sisu. Never talked to him about wasps but can’t see how he’d be a fan of their decision to relocate away from longstanding supporters.

I think he’s trying to highlight the opportunities Sisu have lost to the detriment of the club and supporters, and someone else has moved in to take those opportunities and capitalise on them. I might be wrong, as I’ve said I’ve not read anything else he’s written about wasps, and can’t be bothered to at the moment as I’m trying to watch the apprentice

So he is bigging up wasps because he hates sisu and again a "common enemy"?

How is pushing that wasps are good and ccfc / sisu bad going to put pressure on sisu to drop legals or sell up?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Interesting article and pretty much as I would see it pre sale to wasps (I agree Wasps are hardly setting the word alight and aren’t in a good shape financially). The facts are though Sisu fucked up, burned bridges etc etc. That’s not just the journalist saying it, it’s the judges involved confirming it. As I’ve said before, that’s not to say there isn’t fault from others for example I wish CCC and Higgs retained some element of control over the ground to ensure we could remain there, however, when selling to a third party that’s going to be nigh on impossible.

Sisu appear to have made some belated steps in the right direction recently but unfortunately it’s ten years too late and ultimately because of them we could end up homeless (unlikely) and/or have no chance of owning our own ground (under their ownership).