The Missing 20,000 Fans (1 Viewer)

WillieStanley · Dec 2, 2012

Who wasn't happy with those signings when they were made?

Who thought that Craig Bellamy wouldn't have been an apt replacement for Robbie Keane?

Some signings, no matter how much scouting, research, time and development programmes you put in place, just won't work... Coventry have had more than their fair share, but so have most clubs.

stupot07 · Dec 2, 2012

I did have reservations signing Bellamy tbf, he'd been out for a year with a broken leg, we bought Keane fit and in form.

coundonskyblue · Dec 2, 2012

But why gamble? Successful clubs are generally that because they don't take risks.

Selling Robbie Keane for Bellamy was a gamble which didnt work. Robbie Keane had proved he could get goals for us, Bellamy hadn't. That was a gamble.

Our owners have always looked for quick solutions, but football doesn't work like that. First thing you do is hold onto your best players, then, when you can afford it, add to that team.

No point in selling a £2m player, to replace him with two unproven £1m players, as 9 times out of 10 it work.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 2, 2012

TheSnoz said:
Backroom is so right. All the pathetic excuses just keep getting rolled out and of course the future of the club is so important to them they come out with the sarcasm, put downs and taking the mick. How the club do, nothing to do with them, (even though they have the nerve to call themselves SkyBlue this and that). It is all someone else's fault. Some directors, players, boards, nothing to do with them not turning up. Oh no, not me mate. It isn't a priority, the league (as if they turn much for that anyway) is more important. Or I'll come back when they're in top six, when SISU go, the pies get better, the bloke they don't like behind them shuts up. They'll probably moan about the JPT prices next. The truth is a club is only as good as the supporters. We have a club who have useless non attending 'fans.' They don't see the connection between them not attending and a failing club. Beggars belief. You're just crap supporters and you know who you are.

Perhaps if the club was not the most non achieving in the entire league since 1970 then the fans might be a bit more up for it. WS considers top flight survival a success-looking on it now, it was. But back then simply struggling every season would be more damaging to crowds than being more of a yo yo side. Coventry City supporters have had the least going for them out of anyone for the last 40 years-why should they have to provide the impetus for success?

WillieStanley · Dec 2, 2012

He was seemingly like for like, though. When he didn't work out, we then tried to sign Hartson... Oh if he'd arrived when he was meant to... What a revelation he was!

stupot07 · Dec 2, 2012

WillieStanley said:
He was seemingly like for like, though. When he didn't work out, we then tried to sign Hartson... Oh if he'd arrived when he was meant to... What a revelation he was!

Yeah, and we also doubled our money, which at the time seemed like good business sense. I was gutted when we sold him

coundonskyblue · Dec 2, 2012

WillieStanley said:
He was seemingly like for like, though. When he didn't work out, we then tried to sign Hartson... Oh if he'd arrived when he was meant to... What a revelation he was!

Exactly, seemingly like for like. Therefore he couldnt possibly have been better than Keane, the very best he could have been was as good.

stupot07 · Dec 2, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
Exactly, seemingly like for like. Therefore he couldnt possibly have been better than Keane, the very best he could have been was as good.

But better, more established players would have commanded a much high fee and wages. Money we couldn't and still can't afford.

TheSnoz · Dec 2, 2012

Brighton, we've had ever diminishing support since about 1975. To me that says it all. Coinciding with the gradual decline. It has been downhill ever since, with one terrific exception. No fans, no money, no better players. It ain't rocket science. Locals who CHOOSE to not support their club are not doing their bit to help, to support, their club. Fans just don't realise the power they have, you could all go for it, REALLY support your club and move us up. But no, it is always someone elses's fault. And the excuses keep on coming.

coundonskyblue · Dec 2, 2012

TheSnoz said:
Brighton, we've had ever diminishing support since about 1975. To me that says it all. Coinciding with the gradual decline. It has been downhill ever since, with one terrific exception. No fans, no money, no better players. It ain't rocket science. Locals who CHOOSE to not support their club are not doing their bit to help, to support, their club. Fans just don't realise the power they have, you could all go for it, REALLY support your club and move us up. But no, it is always someone elses's fault. And the excuses keep on coming.

Two questions then please:

1) Please give us a figure that you think our crowds should be as a mid table league 1 club.

2) Why do you think crowds have dropped?

AFCCOVENTRY · Dec 2, 2012

Bellamy has been a proven Premiership player, playing for some of the big teams.

stupot07 · Dec 2, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
Two questions then please:

1) Please give us a figure that you think our crowds should be as a mid table league 1 club.

2) Why do you think crowds have dropped?

It's a viscous circle though coundon, less fans less money less quality.

If fans want us to be a promotion side then they need to show their support. The same fans who will moan if we can't afford to sign mcgoldrick.

coundonskyblue · Dec 2, 2012

stupot07 said:
It's a viscous circle though coundon, less fans less money less quality.

If fans want us to be a promotion side then they need to show their support. The same fans who will moan if we can't afford to sign mcgoldrick.

A properly run league 1 club should have no problem in getting promotion with a 10k average.

Macca · Dec 2, 2012

TheSnoz said:
Brighton, we've had ever diminishing support since about 1975. To me that says it all. Coinciding with the gradual decline. It has been downhill ever since, with one terrific exception. No fans, no money, no better players. It ain't rocket science. Locals who CHOOSE to not support their club are not doing their bit to help, to support, their club. Fans just don't realise the power they have, you could all go for it, REALLY support your club and move us up. But no, it is always someone elses's fault. And the excuses keep on coming.

Ironic thing is that in your shangri la where the only people welcome in your exclusive club are those who go to every game your left with about 6,000 people. Anybody who attends at any point is welcome in my book

WillieStanley · Dec 2, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
But why gamble? Successful clubs are generally that because they don't take risks.

Selling Robbie Keane for Bellamy was a gamble which didnt work. Robbie Keane had proved he could get goals for us, Bellamy hadn't. That was a gamble.

Our owners have always looked for quick solutions, but football doesn't work like that. First thing you do is hold onto your best players, then, when you can afford it, add to that team.

No point in selling a £2m player, to replace him with two unproven £1m players, as 9 times out of 10 it work.

Bellamy was as proven at Keane. Keane came to us as we were the only club willing to gamble on his £5m price tag. Gregory even quoting that he wouldn't even pay £1m for him. Which leads me to another CCFC moment I wouldn't trade "ARE YOU WATCHING GREGORY?!"

GaryPendrysEyes · Dec 2, 2012

TheSnoz said:
Brighton, we've had ever diminishing support since about 1975. To me that says it all. Coinciding with the gradual decline. It has been downhill ever since, with one terrific exception. No fans, no money, no better players. It ain't rocket science. Locals who CHOOSE to not support their club are not doing their bit to help, to support, their club. Fans just don't realise the power they have, you could all go for it, REALLY support your club and move us up. But no, it is always someone elses's fault. And the excuses keep on coming.

Very simplistic and flawed argument- as gates only account for about 40% of income [broadcasting and commercial the other 60%].
The idea that people would pay good money to see a club lose every week just to show 'support' is absurd, and no business would assume that as a model.

TheSnoz · Dec 2, 2012

Gary, obviously you're not much into support then?

"The idea that people would pay good money to see a club lose every week just to show 'support' is absurd,..."

What Shangri-la is that Macca? I'd like a lot more people to attend City matches, just like you. They don't, that's my point. They don't, the club have no money, they can't get the better players so many demand, they fail. Not rocket science. Fans that choose to stay away just don't see the link. Nothing to do with them, course not. Absurd.

Disorganised1 · Dec 2, 2012

The reason we failed was that we had a manager who judged players by his opinion on their ability and not their performance - dropping Roussell when it was obvious him and Keane had an understanding, buying Bellamy as a striker - he is an attacking midfield player, playing Hadji as a striker, not playing Aloisi, and so on.

coundonskyblue · Dec 2, 2012

Snoz we get double the average for this league, yet because of the incompetence of the club that means nothing. That isn't the fans fault.

The fans are not to blame for the crap players we have.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 3, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
A properly run league 1 club should have no problem in getting promotion with a 10k average.

How many teams in recent times have achieved that? Peterborough would've achieved more than that. Oh, of that, how many own their stadium, furthermore, how many of them stadiums earn as much as the RICOH.

Have fun finding.

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 3, 2012

psgm1 said:
Considering what crap has been dished up, its amazing cov get around 10k. For its position in leasgue 6k is a good attendance. Playing for just 45 mins or less per game, struggling against the mighty Morecambe, unable to hold on to leads, and most likely going to lose the top scorer in Jan.

Champions league on Tuesday, freezing cold, and poor performances, not a chance of a "big" gate. And what planet is that guy saying SiSU are puttng their hands in their pockets! How many players did cov buy this season? Players were brought in on loan. Indeed I think the total spend was around £250k - considering they sold Keogh for a hefty relative fee, and BIGI, SiSU haven't spent a Penny (not even on rent!)

ACL have no choice but to file for bankruptcy of ARVO, and as that takes a while to process, I suspect SiSU will again "save" the club by paying money to ACL. If cov have been turned round as some claim, then recouping the 10 points will be easily achievable, and admin will finally rid cov of the disease that is SiSU.

... Because running a football club involves no money bar buying players...

I can tell you know, of Bigi's 1m transfer, 500k was spent on our youth facilities (and we got a 500k matched grant from the FA).

The rest of the 1.5m has been spent on the rest of the runnings of a football club, transfer fees, signing on fees, loan fees for 16 odd players? There's also the wages of them players AND our existing players such as McSheff and Wood, who are rumoured to be on 8k+ p/w.

But with your anti-SISU blinkers, it has all gone to their shareholders etc.

Don't you look silly... :facepalm:

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 3, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
I agree but it's been this way for a long time. Our core support isn't that large and it hasn't been in over 30 years.

When Man U rolled into town in the 90s and our capacity was 24,000, when they scored 1/3 of the ground started dancing in the aisles.

We are a 15,000 home support club when things are going well, the rest of our crowd is made up with away fans in the main.

A big cup tie at home to one of the big boys will have people queuing up to see them, not us and not really giving a shit if we win or lose as long as the top players are playing they will be happy.

I agree, BUT, a successful (granted we are not now) prem CCFC would rake in 32k fans a week. A long term prem CCFC will see a new generation of CCFC fans and thus more CCFC fans in future.

Macca · Dec 3, 2012

TheSnoz said:
Gary, obviously you're not much into support then?

"The idea that people would pay good money to see a club lose every week just to show 'support' is absurd,..."

What Shangri-la is that Macca? I'd like a lot more people to attend City matches, just like you. They don't, that's my point. They don't, the club have no money, they can't get the better players so many demand, they fail. Not rocket science. Fans that choose to stay away just don't see the link. Nothing to do with them, course not. Absurd.

You look down on people who don t have your own incredible record of attendance. I welcome anybody who goes through the gate at any point. That's the difference.

coundonskyblue · Dec 3, 2012

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
How many teams in recent times have achieved that? Peterborough would've achieved more than that. Oh, of that, how many own their stadium, furthermore, how many of them stadiums earn as much as the RICOH.

Have fun finding.

Well the stadium part of your statement is irrelevant to this thread as we are talking about how many fans a league 1 team should have supporting them. The fact we don't own the ground is nothing to do with the fans.

So I can comfortably predict now that in 2013 at least 2 teams with lower attendences than us will get promoted.

In 2011 Peterboro did it with 6449, Brighton won the league with 7351
In 2010 Millwall did it with 10834
In 2009 Peterboro did it with 7598, Scunthorpe did it with 5020
In 2008 Doncaster did it with 7978
In 2007 Scunthorpe did it with 5668, Blackpool with 6886
In 2006 Southend did with 8035, Colchester with 3969, Barnsley with 9045.

TheSnoz · Dec 3, 2012

"I welcome anybody who goes through the gate at any point. That's the difference." Says Macca. On the contrary Macca, so do I. That's my whole point but you are ignoring that. Don't look down on anyone, but I will criticise stay away fans who moan about the club (that's generally, nothing personal). Less fans, less money, inferior players. Keep repeating it, not rocket science. But curiously absent 'supporters' don't see the connection. Nothing to do with them, course not. The club have a magic fund of money that they will keep dipping into. Nothing to do with supporters. That logic is bonkers.
Coventry, a very big city, what, 9th/10th biggest in the country and for over thirty five years the 'football public' of the city have been largely absent. Say, it again, the fans who live within a reasonable distance who CHOOSE to stay away are a disgrace. Worse than useless. If you turned up the club would be transformed overnight. So what about it, you useless fans, are you supporters or what?

valiant15 · Dec 3, 2012

I was under the impression that it was the club that are selling a product that's supposed to intice people to pay for it,not the other way around.

Astute · Dec 3, 2012

So all the problems at our club have been caused by the stay away fans?

valiant15 · Dec 3, 2012

Apparently so.

Macca · Dec 3, 2012

TheSnoz said:
"I welcome anybody who goes through the gate at any point. That's the difference." Says Macca. On the contrary Macca, so do I. That's my whole point but you are ignoring that. Don't look down on anyone, but I will criticise stay away fans who moan about the club (that's generally, nothing personal). Less fans, less money, inferior players. Keep repeating it, not rocket science. But curiously absent 'supporters' don't see the connection. Nothing to do with them, course not. The club have a magic fund of money that they will keep dipping into. Nothing to do with supporters. That logic is bonkers.
Coventry, a very big city, what, 9th/10th biggest in the country and for over thirty five years the 'football public' of the city have been largely absent. Say, it again, the fans who live within a reasonable distance who CHOOSE to stay away are a disgrace. Worse than useless. If you turned up the club would be transformed overnight. So what about it, you useless fans, are you supporters or what?

Don t buy that I'm afraid. You seem to have an attitude of you go all the time or not at all.

To me I d rather someone went 10 times a year than not at all. And if we had a big game that attracted fair weather supporters then great. Rather have 16,000 people there than 8,000 people crowing on about how many games they ve been to and how football is more important than anything else etc etc

There is also some sense of perspective here. People who don t go and watch football are not a disgrace. They have just failed to attend a football match. Get a grip

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 3, 2012

TheSnoz said:
Brighton, we've had ever diminishing support since about 1975. To me that says it all. Coinciding with the gradual decline. It has been downhill ever since, with one terrific exception. No fans, no money, no better players. It ain't rocket science. Locals who CHOOSE to not support their club are not doing their bit to help, to support, their club. Fans just don't realise the power they have, you could all go for it, REALLY support your club and move us up. But no, it is always someone elses's fault. And the excuses keep on coming.

We've had this particular debate before Snoz-and I agree only in so far as those who have the money and time to go.

bamalamafizzfazz · Dec 3, 2012

I'd like to make a couple of points.

We have to take into consideration how the presentation of the sport has evolved.

Up and down the country people will prefer to sit in a warm, dry, uncrowded, location, and watch up to four games of Premier League football in a weekend live on TV. They probably already pay £18 a month just to watch football and get to see between 10-12 games for that price. They are also however expected to get to the Ricoh on a Saturday afternoon to pay the same for one game of third division football. This is not going to happen.

Also the next generation have access to media streams that weren't available years ago and they can pick any premiership team to support and get total coverage of that team no matter where they are. These kids don't know what it was like to be a Cov fan in the Premiership days and don't care just as I don't care about Liverpool or Villa fans going on about winning European cups and league trophies. Clubs have history but really unless you lived then you don't care.

Media coverage and BSKYB have played a big part in the bastardisation of football attendance and have a lot to answer for in my opinion.

skyblueman · Dec 3, 2012

bamalamafizzfazz said:
I'd like to make a couple of points.

We have to take into consideration how the presentation of the sport has evolved.

Up and down the country people will prefer to sit in a warm, dry, uncrowded, location, and watch up to four games of Premier League football in a weekend live on TV. They probably already pay £18 a month just to watch football and get to see between 10-12 games for that price. They are also however expected to get to the Ricoh on a Saturday afternoon to pay the same for one game of third division football. This is not going to happen.

Also the next generation have access to media streams that weren't available years ago and they can pick any premiership team to support and get total coverage of that team no matter where they are. These kids don't know what it was like to be a Cov fan in the Premiership days and don't care just as I don't care about Liverpool or Villa fans going on about winning European cups and league trophies. Clubs have history but really unless you lived then you don't care.

Media coverage and BSKYB have played a big part in the bastardisation of football attendance and have a lot to answer for in my opinion.

SKY has ruined the game in this country no question and our club along with many others clamouring for the money in the premiership

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 3, 2012

coundonskyblue said:
Well the stadium part of your statement is irrelevant to this thread as we are talking about how many fans a league 1 team should have supporting them. The fact we don't own the ground is nothing to do with the fans.

So I can comfortably predict now that in 2013 at least 2 teams with lower attendences than us will get promoted.

In 2011 Peterboro did it with 6449, Brighton won the league with 7351
In 2010 Millwall did it with 10834
In 2009 Peterboro did it with 7598, Sc-unithorpe did it with 5020
In 2008 Doncaster did it with 7978
In 2007 Sc-unithorpe did it with 5668, Blackpool with 6886
In 2006 Southend did with 8035, Colchester with 3969, Barnsley with 9045.

Where are they now? Bar Millwall, they have been or will be (p'borough) relegated... :facepalm:

TheSnoz · Dec 3, 2012

Valiant, you don't go, as you so often say, and you pour scorn on the club at every turn, so your opinion doesn't matter to me. I'll listen to Macca (though he is a smug sod at times and can't resist the dig) because he goes now and then.
Astute, guess you are taking the mick but even so, you've hit nail on the head. But stay away fans (and I wish they would turn up) are the major problem. So you're right. No fans, no money, no players.
Brighton, yes we have been here before. I didn't start the thread so I guess there are others of the same mind as me. 10,000 or less fans turning up is a sad story. About time the SkyblueforeverLew/Hugh/Cityforever lot started living up to their aliases. If someone like you can get to games what does that say about the lukewarms? Fair play to you and people like the chap in Cumbria etc. People with a bit of passion about their club.
But maybe I'm in the wrong place with many on here, not caring enough about their club.

valiant15 · Dec 3, 2012

What you on about you stupid sod,I've had a season ticket since 96,i could of sworn i was there against pompey getting pissed over by the rain. Are you going on about the scunny game that i didn't make cos i had a mate coming over from france,or the midweek game before when i was on afternoons or the cup game against that non league game when i was on holiday with family? Get your facts straight before you staet throwing stones you fucking idiot.

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