The "Thorn Out" brigade (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CJparker
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Gaz
Well-Known Member
Don't want one for everything I don't agree with
Just want one for all the boring repetitive crap that comes out again and again and again and again and ....
kingharvest
New Member
Thorn said they've done a lot of work on the issues around conceding late goals
Maybe, just maybe, the players need to take some responsibility for being so mentally weak?
IMO, thorn has done a remarkable job given the circummstances, he's got 2 coaches to support him...not many. He's made errors but it is not his fault we are where we are.
Maybe, just maybe, the players need to take some responsibility for being so mentally weak?
IMO, thorn has done a remarkable job given the circummstances, he's got 2 coaches to support him...not many. He's made errors but it is not his fault we are where we are.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it's not sarcasm but it is not thought through either. What is very apparent is that everyone obviously see the board and it's cost cutting as the main problem (which is not a point of debate). With the selling of players in the summer no-one expected anything other than a relegation struggle. However, what is now equally apparant is that certain fans are incapable of crticising Thorn as for some reason they see this as supporting SISU or, more likely, it means a small percentage of blame is apportioned to something OTHER than SISU. That some people cannot have, they seem concerned that if any critiscm towards the manager is somehow deflecting from the main aim of getting rid of the board.
This is why you get comments like he is the best manager ever, no manager in the world could improve our position by one solitary point and an over-hype of his ability. It is ludicrous to say he gets everything wrong, sure, but it is equally absurd to suggest he never makes mistakes and cannot influence games at all. It is mainly supporters of Thorn who are quick to gloat on days we win (rare) and say this is down to Thorn but vehemently defend him in defeat with the usual "give him a medal" "no-one in the world can do better" "it's SISU's fault" comments. Can't have it both ways if he can't influence us in defeat then he can't be credited in victory. Of course he can and should in relevant measures for both situations.
Real truth anyway is that Coventry fans (not the Board) are very apathetic towards managers anyway. Whatever people say or text through the local media the supporters in the ground never turned on Boothroyd or Coleman in the ground (only once for Coleman perhaps in that final debacle with Marcus Hall). Even Adams never had it in the neck and Dowie certainly didn't. Reid possibly but that was circumstance. So given that it's not that surprising but people accuse me of lack of balance when the majority of them look at the situation with one eye closed and the other firmly on one side only.
sums up my thoughts exactly, very balanced
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
football managers shouldnt lose 10pts plus to last minute goals
Otis
Well-Known Member
Very good post. Tis a bit daft to have the mindset of any win being a vindication of AT's management but any defeat not being his fault. The truth obviously lies somewhere inbetween.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Who do we have of the quality to change a game that late? This is what the difference of having a team that can compete and a squad that can compete. Look at the quality of the players Blackpool had on the bench. If they were at our club they would have played from the start.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I agree with most of what you say, but when you say an experienced manager would do better than this is nothing but a guess. It is not a statement of truth. There are teams just above us with better players, a better squad and experienced managers. Why are they just above us?
Nick
Administrator
What about changing tactics and spotting weaknesses and exploiting them? You seem obsessed by Blackburn's bench?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not very often that I find myself agreeing with you, but you've hit the nail on the head there-criticism of Thorn is usually seen as being pro-SISU, so tends to make people come out with hyperbolic praise of the man. For folk keen on the statistics, I'd have a look at this: http://www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?league=england2&teamid=11.
The most damning statistics are there for all to see:
'Coventry City conceded at least one goal in 100% of their away matches.' is probably the most appropriate. As much as I defend Thorn for the huge amount of work he's doing with a pathetic budget, that away record is shocking-and we were given a very good example of why last night.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Blackburn?
Blackpool even ha! :facepalm:
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not obsessed with Blackpools bench. Just pointing out that when you have a better quality of player and enough to choose from to put on the bench you have more of a chance of changing things. Just about all of their players on the bench would have walked into our team. How many of our players would they want in their squad?
CovLis86
Well-Known Member
End of the day, Blackpool away is one of the toughest fixtures on the calendar. We played well by the sounds of it, and switched off for last 5 meaning we take 0 points. Did we really expect to take any before the game? Id say no. Same as most teams would be hoping for a point away there as a good result.
The real test is going to be getting points at home, and then trying to get wins against teams around us which are coming up in next couple of months. They will make the difference to whther we survive or not, not a cold Tuesday night away to blackpool.
The real test is going to be getting points at home, and then trying to get wins against teams around us which are coming up in next couple of months. They will make the difference to whther we survive or not, not a cold Tuesday night away to blackpool.
Otis
Well-Known Member
1. It was the manner of the defeat (again)
2. The real test is getting points away, not at home. We have 9 home games left. Even if we win all of them that would only give us 49 points and that will probably not be enough to keep us up anyway. We need to pick up points away.
We have to pick up points away.
2. The real test is getting points away, not at home. We have 9 home games left. Even if we win all of them that would only give us 49 points and that will probably not be enough to keep us up anyway. We need to pick up points away.
We have to pick up points away.
AlexJohnson93
New Member
I was at the game last night and i thought there was no real need for change at 1-0. Swapping a defender deep into the game is an incredibly stupid move (think it was fulham, defender comes on, concedes before even touching the ball). There wern't any subs we could realistically make, Bell & Baker are attacking midfielders and Eastwood is unfit.
The defeat was not Thorn's fault, but the defenders playing too deep & Blackpool being able to bring on Fleck, Phillips and Bednar, all of whom would walk into our team.
The defeat was not Thorn's fault, but the defenders playing too deep & Blackpool being able to bring on Fleck, Phillips and Bednar, all of whom would walk into our team.
Nick
Administrator
So another team go 4 up front with fresh legs and we shouldn't change anything at all?
AlexJohnson93
New Member
What could we have done?
Nick
Administrator
Read back through the other threads, plenty of things to try rather than just absorb pressure and play so far back.
I am not paid thousands per week to manage a football team, if I was I'd probably have some better ideas
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
For all that people claim that AT gets more support than derision, that clearly isn't the case. It's pretty hard to find anything but criticism on here today; it's really quite boring! This forum used to have a range of discussion: now it's just one theme. Certain posters are notable for the majority of their posts being anti-Thorn. Others only contribute when they have something to gloat about. I don't really see what either has to do with supporting the side, it's just an articulation of frustration that we aren't doing better. The "with Thorn or against him" game is very tiresome and I genuinely find it unreadable bullshit, so excuse me whilst I refrain from joining in the fun henceforth.
I'm going to make one final post articulating my views on the subject, and I'm not going to repeat the lengthy case for why I believe the manager is doing a good job-because you've all made your minds up anyway, and even if it did contain nothing but the stark honest truth, most would completely ignore it (again) whilst moaning about how "these billions of Thorn fans don't ever say why he's a good manager..." :wave:
Given that we were away to a playoff chasing side with miles more quality than us, a draw would have been a good result last night. As it was, we could have easily come away with all three. After 3 superb performances at home in the league, I'd have expected a little leeway. Maybe even losing our best forward and actually reducing our squad size over the window? But no. We're back to before, with the slightest thing being seized on rabidly. It's almost as if the good recent results have made the reaction to Blackpool much more dramatic. What, did you think we were now safe? The hysterical response makes me think that some of you almost want us to lose so you can moan about the manager (go on, admit it to yourselves, just for a second!).
If we'd have seen the game out last night, reaction would have been different. If we'd have lost 2-0, it would have been far more placid. But honestly, if he had made changes, there's no guarantee they'd have secured us the result. Maybe they would have, but you don't know that. Yet it's been decided that it's a fact that a lack of subs cost us the game: it isn't, it's an opinion based on hope and desperation. And don't give me that "Gallacher said it, he's an expert" bullcrap. He was full of hackneyed cliches all night, was clearly massively out of touch with affairs at CCFC, and sounded like a bad job interviewee winging it by saying the first thing he could think of! Just because he was a good player doesn't make him Alex Ferguson! He also said a lot of other very positive things which most fans chose to skilfully selectively ignore, but there you go.
We don't even know that Wood was fully fit. The argument against the changes is that bringing a defender on "cold" late in a match is very risky as he isn't at the pace of the game, so more likely to make an error. Either way, AT has had as much stick whenever he has brought a defender off the bench previously! If he'd have gone 5 at the back, he'd have been hammered for being negative. But any way you look at it, the huge volume of angry posts seems a massive over-reaction to something like not making a couple of subs earlier. And don't say "it's not the first time.."-on previous occasions it later transpired that none of the bench options were fully fit, and we don't have the squad to be risking them getting further injured.
Oh and another thing: people like me don't raise the owners as an issue for no reason-we do it as it is entirely relevant to the situation we are in. To ignore them is to skew the argument in a manner that only suits one agenda, and that is the "blame Thorn" one.
My major frustration this season, after the owners, is probably the fans.
I'm going to make one final post articulating my views on the subject, and I'm not going to repeat the lengthy case for why I believe the manager is doing a good job-because you've all made your minds up anyway, and even if it did contain nothing but the stark honest truth, most would completely ignore it (again) whilst moaning about how "these billions of Thorn fans don't ever say why he's a good manager..." :wave:
Given that we were away to a playoff chasing side with miles more quality than us, a draw would have been a good result last night. As it was, we could have easily come away with all three. After 3 superb performances at home in the league, I'd have expected a little leeway. Maybe even losing our best forward and actually reducing our squad size over the window? But no. We're back to before, with the slightest thing being seized on rabidly. It's almost as if the good recent results have made the reaction to Blackpool much more dramatic. What, did you think we were now safe?
The hysterical response makes me think that some of you almost want us to lose so you can moan about the manager (go on, admit it to yourselves, just for a second!).If we'd have seen the game out last night, reaction would have been different. If we'd have lost 2-0, it would have been far more placid. But honestly, if he had made changes, there's no guarantee they'd have secured us the result. Maybe they would have, but you don't know that. Yet it's been decided that it's a fact that a lack of subs cost us the game: it isn't, it's an opinion based on hope and desperation. And don't give me that "Gallacher said it, he's an expert" bullcrap. He was full of hackneyed cliches all night, was clearly massively out of touch with affairs at CCFC, and sounded like a bad job interviewee winging it by saying the first thing he could think of! Just because he was a good player doesn't make him Alex Ferguson! He also said a lot of other very positive things which most fans chose to skilfully selectively ignore, but there you go.
We don't even know that Wood was fully fit. The argument against the changes is that bringing a defender on "cold" late in a match is very risky as he isn't at the pace of the game, so more likely to make an error. Either way, AT has had as much stick whenever he has brought a defender off the bench previously! If he'd have gone 5 at the back, he'd have been hammered for being negative. But any way you look at it, the huge volume of angry posts seems a massive over-reaction to something like not making a couple of subs earlier. And don't say "it's not the first time.."-on previous occasions it later transpired that none of the bench options were fully fit, and we don't have the squad to be risking them getting further injured.
Oh and another thing: people like me don't raise the owners as an issue for no reason-we do it as it is entirely relevant to the situation we are in. To ignore them is to skew the argument in a manner that only suits one agenda, and that is the "blame Thorn" one.
My major frustration this season, after the owners, is probably the fans.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
And another thing..if you remember our last five managers, I'd argue that actually Thorn is more proactive with substitutions than any of them, whilst working with the clubs weakest bench since relegation. I don't remember many of our previous gaffers transforming matches with double half-time substitutions! And it is much easier to effect an outcome when you can bring on people like Bednar, Phillips and Fleck, all of whom would be amongst our best 2 or 3 players. Richard Wood as sub isn't going to stop that sort of quality when the entire XI has ran itself into the ground, and neither is Freddy Eastwood (yeah, like he'll graft like Platt does..)! Is this not plainly obvious? In the land of the blind, am I the one-eyed king?!?
Nonleague - why do you think we concede so many late goals then?
I've heard the argument that it was inxpereince players yet last night the vast majority of players were experienced.
I've heard no fitness coach yet apparently we do have one.
I've heard because of blackpools depth on the bench. Fair enough BUT other teams manage to hold onto leads depsite having a feeble bench.
Why do you think? Be interested to hear your answer.
I've heard the argument that it was inxpereince players yet last night the vast majority of players were experienced.
I've heard no fitness coach yet apparently we do have one.
I've heard because of blackpools depth on the bench. Fair enough BUT other teams manage to hold onto leads depsite having a feeble bench.
Why do you think? Be interested to hear your answer.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Who is the fitness coach then? Certainly don't remember news of one being appointed.
I was told last night.
The person who told me is very well connected with the club. No reason for him to lie.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Here you go!
Do they usually announce staff like that? I thought it was only usually Managers and Assistant Managers. Betty the Tealady might have gone too.
Then I stand corrected! I would've been sure that the club would've announced the appointment though :thinking about:
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
https://twitter.com/#!/samuelheathcote The guy also works for Leicester Tigers and has himself down as a sports scientist-damn