The Truth (2 Viewers)

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Sorry but like everything that follows that is an opinion or your truth it is not THE Truth. So this is my opinion or truth

Yes as with any manager Pressley had a positive effect on some players but you could highlight other players like Conor Thomas or Billy Daniels that have gone backwards under his tenure.

Nor did Pressley take Wilson from having no ability to being the player he is today. First and foremost the lad had one inherent attribute that can not be coached - pace. There were plenty involved in his development it wasn't just about Pressley - there was Rioch and his staff, the staff supporting Pressley and lately Eddie Howe and his staff at Bournemouth who have taken a L1 talent and pushed him on to borderline Premiership. Pressley added to the mix for the lad perhaps and gave him his chance (largely because of injuries to others I seem to remember) but that's football isn't it? That's the job of a manager to get the best from the talent he has isn't it? SP is not unusual in that and if you look at the teams achievements he hasn't managed in 100 games to mould a consistently winning team from those raw talents.

Yes we lost the 50+ goals from last season. Some of that was out of his hands but the man himself said he made the player decisions including the sale of Wilson. He can not cry unfair if that's the case. He knew what he was losing and failed to even replace even half those goals with the players he brought in. Those more senior players clearly did not respond to his man management, got shipped out, bombed out or ignored, wasting 1000's of pounds of money the club clearly does not have room to waste

Yes we were more attacking but for all the goals scored what was the goal difference come end of last season? Following Clarkes departure and Wilson's injury how did we fare? Poorly. The decline hasn't been this season it started around about January 2014 and continued, and that is with, for at least part, some of the players you champion as brought on by SP.

Yes of course the budget and other problems at the club have an effect, the slide is not all his fault. Of course he did some good things. Some players have grown in to better players with him as manager, but some players may also have failed because he was manager. Did the players leave for the money well in part yes but the players you name are all now playing in the Championship or the top end of L1 in arguably better performing teams influenced by their own managers - you could argue they were ambitious and right to be

It is hard to get away from the comments on the budget though isn't it. Top 6 budget, bottom 4 position. There is usually a good correlation between spend and team performance so if the money was there why didn't it work. We replaced some talent with loans yes but who identified those players coming in. If we hadn't sold some of that talent how do you think our budget would have looked?

A managers job is to consistently get the best from the squad of players that he has assembled. Did SP do that - I would say no. To get the best from a player you need to play to their strengths - how many times have we seen a square peg in round hole approach from SP? - far too often. Yes the players didn't perform to their abilities (although I think some did but didn't have great ability in the first place) I would argue that over the recent 4 or 5 seasons the players that I have felt let down by are the more senior ones, and largely because they have failed to take enough responsibility. But shouldn't a good manager bring that sort of responsibility and attributes out of senior players? isn't that part of a managers job too?

Our play once we lost any real ability to hold the ball up and pace up front in Wilson & Clarke has been slow, ponderous, stretched, lacking speed of thought and action, free from any real flair - that is not all down to the players. The stats might read well but 60% possession is no good unless you do something with it, unless it carries a threat - and yet SP was always happy with the stats wasn't he. We have lacked pace all over the pitch, we have lacked strength and players willing to do the darker things on a pitch, we have chopped and changed formations and still not found one that consistently achieves. That is not all down to lack of funds or the players.

SP is a good honest guy, he works hard is committed but to achieve in L1 you need more than that and on far too many occasions he simply did not achieve. Good luck to him you and he may choose to focus on the first 20 or 25 games of last season but ask any decent manager and it is the here and now that counts.
 

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Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue

Well-Known Member
But he played a completely different style to Mark Robins who relied on a 4-5-1 with out and out wingers and a pacey striker.

Pressley went 4-4-2 with a fluid midfield with Fleck at the base and full backs that played like wingers.

You can't give him sole responsibility of the poor form this season without giving him the responsibility of the good form last season, just because it suits your argument. It might be neat and justify an argument, but sadly, nothing is that simple.

He performed excellently in the first half of last season, and has performed poorly in the middle half of this season.

I agree entirely KG7, that's a balanced and fair conclusion. You're clearly someone that does actually bear some football knowledge.

The Cov fans on SBT seem to lack any form of balance. They can't give out any form of recognition, according to some on here, he went from being a brilliant manager to a clueless, rubbish manager who got lucky with everything he ever did.

I'm guessing the fact that we scored a fantastic amount of goals last season was a pure fluke, every game, and that the lack of fans in Sixfields caused the wind to swirl around so much, that the ball constantly blew into the oppositions net..
 

KG7

Well-Known Member
Sorry but like everything that follows that is an opinion or your truth it is not THE Truth. So this is my opinion or truth

Yes as with any manager Pressley had a positive effect on some players but you could highlight other players like Conor Thomas or Billy Daniels that have gone backwards under his tenure.

Nor did Pressley take Wilson from having no ability to being the player he is today. First and foremost the lad had one inherent attribute that can not be coached - pace. There were plenty involved in his development it wasn't just about Pressley - there was Rioch and his staff, the staff supporting Pressley and lately Eddie Howe and his staff at Bournemouth who have taken a L1 talent and pushed him on to borderline Premiership. Pressley added to the mix for the lad perhaps and gave him his chance (largely because of injuries to others I seem to remember) but that's football isn't it? That's the job of a manager to get the best from the talent he has isn't it? SP is not unusual in that and if you look at the teams achievements he hasn't managed in 100 games to mould a winning team from those raw talents.

Yes we lost the 50+ goals from last season. Some of that was out of his hands but the man himself said he made the player decisions including the sale of Wilson. He can not cry unfair if that's the case. He knew what he was losing and failed to even replace even half those goals with the players he brought in. Those more senior players clearly did not respond to his man management, got shipped out, bombed out or ignored, wasting 1000's of pounds of money the club clearly does not have room to waste

Yes we were more attacking but for all the goals scored what was the goal difference come end of last season? Following Clarkes departure and Wilson's injury how did we fare? Poorly. The decline hasn't been this season it started around about January 2014 and continued, and that is with, for at least part, some of the players you champion as brought on by SP.

Yes of course the budget and other problems at the club have an effect, the slide is not all his fault. Of course he did some good things. Some players have grown in to better players with him as manager, but some players may also have failed because he was manager. Did the players leave for the money well in part yes but the players you name are all now playing in the Championship or the top end of L1 in arguably better performing teams influenced by their own managers - you could argue they were ambitious and right to be

It is hard to get away from the comments on the budget though isn't it. Top 6 budget, bottom 4 position. There is usually a good correlation between spend and team performance so if the money was there why didn't it work. We replaced some talent with loans yes but who identified those players coming in. If we hadn't sold some of that talent how do you think our budget would have looked?

A managers job is to consistently get the best from the squad of players that he has assembled. Did SP do that - I would say no. To get the best from a player you need to play to their strengths - how many times have we seen a square peg in round hole approach from SP? - far too often. Yes the players didn't perform to their abilities (although I think some did but didn't have great ability in the first place) I would argue that over the recent 4 or 5 seasons the players that I have felt let down by are the more senior ones, and largely because they have failed to take enough responsibility. But shouldn't a good manager bring that sort of responsibility and attributes out of senior players? isn't that part of a managers job too?

Our play once we lost any real ability to hold the ball up and pace up front in Wilson & Clarke has been slow, ponderous, stretched, lacking speed of thought and action, free from any real flair - that is not all down to the players. The stats might read well but 60% possession is no good unless you do something with it, unless it carries a threat - and yet SP was always happy with the stats wasn't he. We have lacked pace all over the pitch, we have lacked strength and players willing to do the darker things on a pitch, we have chopped and changed formations and still not found one that consistently achieves. That is not all down to lack of funds.

SP is a good honest guy, he works hard is committed but to achieve in L1 you need more than that and on far too many occasions he simply did not achieve. Good luck to him you and he may choose to focus on the first 20 or 25 games of last season but ask any decent manager and it is the here and now that counts.

Haven't got an issue with considered opinions OldSkyBlue. It's the sensationalist way in which opinions are delivered as fact on here that I am trying to reason with.

The most worrying thing about SP for me was his lack of ability to arrest a decline in form - he did this only once, at the start of last season - ultimately that's what's driven him to the sack. However, this isn't a trait that's been exclusive to him at CCFC - Boothroyd, and Coleman both went on ridiculous runs of poor form that were only broken when the season ended or, in Boothroyd's case, he got fired.

I think Pressley's biggest mistake was changing systems at the start of the season, and then not having the conviction (or players) to see it through. It left us with an imbalanced squad, the most experienced (Pugh) and effective (Johnson) of which were crocked - and a period of transition mid-season when we were already in a bad run of form. I'd be really interested to hear why he did this. Was it because he couldn't get the pace he needed at to replace Wilson and repeat last season's formation? Or was it solely because he thought it was shore us up at the back (it clearly did - but mostly when Johnson was in the team).
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
But he played a completely different style to Mark Robins who relied on a 4-5-1 with out and out wingers and a pacey striker.

Pressley went 4-4-2 with a fluid midfield with Fleck at the base and full backs that played like wingers.

You can't give him sole responsibility of the poor form this season without giving him the responsibility of the good form last season, just because it suits your argument. It might be neat and justify an argument, but sadly, nothing is that simple.

He performed excellently in the first half of last season, and has performed poorly in the middle half of this season.

That's not strictly true KG, our formation under robins was also fluid. Moussa/Sheff would rotate between left wing and in the hole, baker would often cut in relying on christie to provide width on the overlap allowing him to cut in and shoot (and score). He brought adams in to do the same job on the left. Also DMG wasn't particularly pacy and rather than run in and stretch teams would drop deep, with the likes of moussa and sheff running in behind. The only really rigidness was from Bailey and Jennings but even they manage to break forward more than Pressley allowed fleck/barton/thomas/finch, hence why they scored x4 the amount of goals from defensive central midfield position in that 1 season than our central midfielder in the last 18 months (90 games)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
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KG7

Well-Known Member
That's not strictly true KG, our formation under robins was also fluid. Moussa/Sheff would rotate between left wing and in the hole, baker would often cut in relying on christie to provide width on the overlap allowing him to cut in and shoot (and score). He brought adams in to do the same job on the left. Also DMG wasn't particularly pacy and rather than run in and stretch teams would drop deep, with the likes of moussa and sheff running in behind. The only really rigidness was from Bailey and Jennings but even they manage to break forward more than Pressley allowed fleck/barton/thomas/finch.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)

I don't remember much rotation between Moussa and Sheff, but if you do, I can't really argue with that.

For me, Moussa, Thomas and Daniels (and to a lesser extent, Baker) were interchanging at the start of last season with a fluidity that I have never seen before from a City side (or since).

However, regardless of the nitty gitty (and I would say that DMG had a lot of pace) the systems were very different.

Robins was very direct - getting the ball out from the back and putting the opposition on the backfoot.
Pressley's system built from the back and drew the opposition forward before hitting them on the counter or put pressure on the opposition defenders in an attempt to win the ball in a dangerous part of the pitch.

When Robins left and Pressley first came in, I was disappointed in the style of play he adopted - Robins was far more exciting and Pressley felt like a step backwards to the Thorn era.

However, when it was firing at the start of last season it was without question the most exciting football we've played since dropping out of the premier league, and although difficult to compare, perhaps even rivalling a number of years when we were in it.

Pace at the sharp end of it is obviously key to it - as has been pointed out, was Clarke - although I don't ever remember him playing as a 'number 10' before SP put him there.

I'm not saying SP was perfect, just that he did a lot of good things that he should be given credit for. He also made a number of mistakes which he has been vilified for.
 

steveecov

New Member
The real truth is the fact he could be out-thought by opposing managers. Any changes made by opponents nearly always resulted in points lost. I believe he lost the dressing room, which is unforgiveable. But to lose a 2 goal lead against 10 men meant he was dead in the water.
 

KG7

Well-Known Member
The real truth is the fact he could be out-thought by opposing managers. Any changes made by opponents nearly always resulted in points lost. I believe he lost the dressing room, which is unforgiveable. But to lose a 2 goal lead against 10 men meant he was dead in the water.

That's not a truth though is it.
In fact, everything that you've stated there is your opinion. See my comments on 'Is anyone going to defend Pressley now' if you want to hear what I thought about Saturday.

You can't argue with his results, but I think his actual performance as a manager, is more nuanced and debatable than most people are saying on here. (Yes, it's a results business)
 

Warwickhunt

Well-Known Member
Pressley did not 'develop' Callum Wilson, he was always very highly thought of through the youth system and was not on the verge of release. He suffered some unfortunate injuries which hindered his playing time in the years previous.

Talking nonsense.
Marcus Law who was manager at Kettering & Tamworth during his loans developed Callum Wilson into the player he is today
 

steveecov

New Member
Regarding Callum Wilson. In years to come and hopefully when he's achieved a lot, I think he'll name Clarke as his biggest motivator. Not Robbins or Pressley.
 

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
Any danger of using your brain? HERES WHAT I ORIGINALLY SAID, very clearly for you:

"Before Pressley joined the club, Wilson, being the obvious example, played 12 games for us scoring 1 goal. He had loan spells at Tamworth and Kettering for christ sake. He did not at all like ever making it for us and was on the verge of release once or twice. Are you telling me that in the Summer before the 13/14 season he just magic'd from a Non-league maybe into an England Under 21 Striker on fire in front of net?"

I was underlining the fact how far Wilson has come, which nobody and I mean nobody can dispute, that Pressley played a key part in. I understand our results lately have been piss poor but there is noway you can try and take away the positive things the man did last season. You deserve David Hockaday.

I guess Pressley is the reason he's doing so well at Bournemouth too? The way that you are laying his talents all on Pressley is the funny thing, he's a good player because his IS a good player. Credit a number of people, previous coaches and scouts, Gregor Rioch and Pressley yes. The club could have easily released him as an 18/19 year old but didn't because they knew his potential. GET IT? you deserve League 2 football.
 

Covstu

Well-Known Member
I think it is obvious that SP had a mountain to climb given the resources and the selling culture we have at the club. Wilson has become a superb player and will play in the prem league (Bournmouth or not) so i do agree that SP developed him into a more complete player. As for SP a few things come to mind:

1) I think SP must have had a clause in his contract about termination if we slipped into the relegation zone as i just did not see him getting the boot after signing for 4 years.
2) I question if we have the 6th highest salary bill in the league (or whatever was quoted), we hardly have a full squad, alot are made up of kids and we are weak in obvious spaces like Goalkeeper and centre half for a kick off. I am just not convinced......
 

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
I agree he helped with Wilsons progression but its unfair not to credit people like Gregor Rioch, who probably played the biggest role in his development.
 

Nick

Administrator
Wait a minute, at the time he had his hands tied and had to play youth players so it was a bad thing. Because Wilson was good Pressley brought him on and had it all in mind?
 

KG7

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute, at the time he had his hands tied and had to play youth players so it was a bad thing. Because Wilson was good Pressley brought him on and had it all in mind?

What do you mean Nick?
 

Monners

Well-Known Member
Pressley had a good half season last year because he played to the strengths of what he had i.e. a strike parternship that instantly clicked, and an attack minded philosophy -wing backs, Moussa and Baker in MF. He had to go for it to wipe out the -10 points as quickly as possible. It worked well, until the two up front weren't on the pitch; then the defensive frailities become the problem, and he showed tactical ineptness (Notts County away springs to mind).
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
What do you mean Nick?

I think he's saying Wilson only got his chance because of how thin we were in the strikers department rather than a master stroke by Pressley.

Its a fair argument, although not one I'm sure I agree with. Although we know Pressley almost released Wilson in preseason so he obviously wasn't fully convinced on him.
 

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