Think most Americans just don't get it! (1 Viewer)

Otis · Jun 19, 2015

This church killing in South Carolina just makes you despair doesn't it.

This lad, Dylann Roof, who friends said was weird, disaffected and a bit 'out there,' was given a gun for his birthday just a few weeks before the shootings.

Now we have the gun lobby's response, which is, what was wrong here was the fact that the people in the church didn't have the guns to shoot back.

Sometimes it's hard to believe we are in the 21st century.

Makes perfect common sense to arm all parishioners. Way to go!! :facepalm:

Macca · Jun 19, 2015

Of course they don't get it, we do because it is so alien to us but guns are totally ingrained in their culture. It's it a bit like saying "honour killings they just don't get it" or "female circumcision they just don't get it"
It's difficult to argue that something is ludicrous to people for whom it is utterly normal.
I'm not sure what the answer is in the States. Forcibly removing the guns held by private individuals will probably cause a mini war!
Oddly given the amount of armed nutters and gangsters over there I would probably want one too

Otis · Jun 19, 2015

Macca said:
Of course they don't get it, we do because it is so alien to us but guns are totally ingrained in their culture. It's it a bit like saying "honour killings they just don't get it" or "female circumcision they just don't get it"
It's difficult to argue that something is ludicrous to people for whom it is utterly normal.
I'm not sure what the answer is in the States. Forcibly removing the guns held by private individuals will probably cause a mini war!
Oddly given the amount of armed nutters and gangsters over there I would probably want one too

Yes, Macca and that is exactly the problem. People arm themselves for protection cause everyone else has guns.

I can't see it changing at all. Like you say, it is so ingrained into their psyche.

But what I meant by 'they just don't get it' is the irony of it all.

Macca · Jun 19, 2015

I agree it is a vicious circle. I actually enjoy guns for sport, and I mean sport not hunting. However I think it is fantastic how strict the laws are in this country, it makes me feel very safe. Despite the sensational headlines you see about buying a gun from some bloke in the pub in 5 mins it is incredibly hard to get hold of a handgun. Proven by the fact that even in London most disputes are settled with a knife. However if there were thugs roaming the streets with guns I would absolutely get one myself

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 19, 2015

It's not everyone else has guns it's those in authority have guns. They don't trust the government. I don't think that it's a sensible argument but It's not backward or insane to want to protect yourself from something you are scared of

Houchens Head · Jun 19, 2015

I heard about America's "Right to Bear Arms". I thought it meant wearing a short sleeved shirt if you want to.

Otis · Jun 19, 2015

Houchens Head said:
I heard about America's "Right to Bear Arms". I thought it meant wearing a short sleeved shirt if you want to.

I thought it just encouraged people to have hairy hands and armpits.

Then they'd all have bear arms.

B-Ban-Boogie · Jun 19, 2015

It's hard to counter any argument when these things happen. There are an awful lot of crazy fuckers around.

EVERYONE i know has a gun (or multiple guns) and it still freaks me out when i go to the gun range and there is little grandma at 75 years old teaching her 12 year old grandkids the ways to shoot guns. :facepalm:

I was at a indoor range 2 weeks ago and there was one old boy.. must have been 80 at least and he's struggling to get out his car!!
We all go in and he's got the shakes and i'm a bit wary to say the least.. haha

I ask the guys at the counter to be as far away as possible and thankfully i got a 'lane' quite a bit away.
I needn't have worried though as this old dude was like 'Bob Lee Swagger' and shot better than everyone in the place!! Lol.
He had even drawn a silhouette of a person with the heart and everything and his 'grouping' were very impressive.
I'd hate to be the one to break into his house!! ..

I also think that people forget the size of the U.S.A in that if the BBC covered news in and around Europe (the same area span as the U.S.A covering france, germany, spain, hell even the russian countries) you would hear about shootings and killings AS much, if not more than what you do in the U.S)

Remember... the UK is the size of Florida.

I'm not justifying these murderous acts though and wish they would abolish guns but Macca and Otis are correct.. its a way of life to be around guns here.

Oh, and here's mine btw..

Standard Police Issue - 9mm Taurus PT-92 FS

Otis · Jun 19, 2015

B-Ban-Boogie said:
It's hard to counter any argument when these things happen. There are an awful lot of crazy fuckers around.

EVERYONE i know has a gun (or multiple guns) and it still freaks me out when i go to the gun range and there is little grandma at 75 years old teaching her 12 year old grandkids the ways to shoot guns. :facepalm:

I was at a indoor range 2 weeks ago and there was one old boy.. must have been 80 at least and he's struggling to get out his car!!
We all go in and he's got the shakes and i'm a bit wary to say the least.. haha

I ask the guys at the counter to be as far away as possible and thankfully i got a 'lane' quite a bit away.
I needn't have worried though as this old dude was like 'Bob Lee Swagger' and shot better than everyone in the place!! Lol.
He had even drawn a silhouette of a person with the heart and everything and his 'grouping' were very impressive.
I'd hate to be the one to break into his house!! ..

I also think that people forget the size of the U.S.A in that if the BBC covered news in and around Europe (the same area span as the U.S.A covering france, germany, spain, hell even the russian countries) you would hear about shootings and killings AS much, if not more than what you do in the U.S)

Remember... the UK is the size of Florida.

I'm not justifying these murderous acts though and wish they would abolish guns but Macca and Otis are correct.. its a way of life to be around guns here.

Oh, and here's mine btw..

Standard Police Issue - 9mm Taurus PT-92 FS

Here's mine.

Sick Boy · Jun 19, 2015

B-Ban-Boogie said:
It's hard to counter any argument when these things happen. There are an awful lot of crazy fuckers around.

EVERYONE i know has a gun (or multiple guns) and it still freaks me out when i go to the gun range and there is little grandma at 75 years old teaching her 12 year old grandkids the ways to shoot guns. :facepalm:

I was at a indoor range 2 weeks ago and there was one old boy.. must have been 80 at least and he's struggling to get out his car!!
We all go in and he's got the shakes and i'm a bit wary to say the least.. haha

I ask the guys at the counter to be as far away as possible and thankfully i got a 'lane' quite a bit away.
I needn't have worried though as this old dude was like 'Bob Lee Swagger' and shot better than everyone in the place!! Lol.
He had even drawn a silhouette of a person with the heart and everything and his 'grouping' were very impressive.
I'd hate to be the one to break into his house!! ..

I also think that people forget the size of the U.S.A in that if the BBC covered news in and around Europe (the same area span as the U.S.A covering france, germany, spain, hell even the russian countries) you would hear about shootings and killings AS much, if not more than what you do in the U.S)

Remember... the UK is the size of Florida.

I'm not justifying these murderous acts though and wish they would abolish guns but Macca and Otis are correct.. its a way of life to be around guns here.

Oh, and here's mine btw..

Standard Police Issue - 9mm Taurus PT-92 FS

Why on earth would you own a gun? Yet again goes to show why the UK should be looking towards Europe rather than the mad yanks.

Houchens Head · Jun 19, 2015

............. and here's mine :claping hands:

B-Ban-Boogie · Jun 19, 2015

i brought that a loooooong time ago when i first got here thinking (1) well why the hell not, (2) it may save my life!
It's in the bedroom now, locked away... (it comes out when i go to the range) I'd probably use the baseball bats first if anyone broke into the house.

The problem with that is that if someone IS going to have the bollocks to break in, they are probably carrying as there is a good chance that the home owner has one too.
It's a shit situation but it is what it is..

CCFC88 · Jun 19, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Why on earth would you own a gun? Yet again goes to show why the UK should be looking towards Europe rather than the mad yanks.

"when i go to the gun range"

Thats like asking someone who's told you they play football why they own a pair of football boots or someone who goes bowling why they own a bowling ball

AJB1983 · Jun 19, 2015

USA is only country that responds to a gun massacre (like sandy hook) where the pressure groups say 'relax the gun laws'.
For example, Here they were 'tightened' in response to two major horrific incidents.

Otis · Jun 19, 2015

AJB1983 said:
USA is only country that responds to a gun massacre (like sandy hook) where the pressure groups say 'relax the gun laws'.
For example, Here they were 'tightened' in response to two major horrific incidents.

Yep, like I said, a gun lobby activist said the answer was to arm the church goers.

All in God's name, eh!

Houchens Head · Jun 19, 2015

B-Ban-Boogie said:
i brought that a loooooong time ago when i first got here thinking (1) well why the hell not, (2) it may save my life!
It's in the bedroom now, locked away... (it comes out when i go to the range) I'd probably use the baseball bats first if anyone broke into the house.

The problem with that is that if someone IS going to have the bollocks to break in, they are probably carrying as there is a good chance that the home owner has one too.
It's a shit situation but it is what it is..

Blimey! Down here on the Isle of Wight, we just throw sand in their faces screaming "Go away!"

chiefdave · Jun 19, 2015

Jon Stewart's take on it, worth a watch

[video=youtube;LJl9iqnvkOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJl9iqnvkOE[/video]

Otis · Jun 19, 2015

chiefdave said:
Jon Stewart's take on it, worth a watch

[video=youtube;LJl9iqnvkOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJl9iqnvkOE[/video]

Great piece that.

skybluetony176 · Jun 19, 2015

I saw a program once about guns in America and it said that statistically if you owned a gun for home protection you were more likely to be shot and killed than if you didn't. This was down to two scenarios from memory. The criminal in your house see's you holding a gun so shoots you first or the criminal is unarmed, the home owner pulls a gun on him and you either get shot in the wrestling match or the criminal who's more street wise than you win's the wrestling match, disarms you and shoots you with your own gun.

Macca · Jun 19, 2015

Otis said:
Yep, like I said, a gun lobby activist said the answer was to arm the church goers.

All in God's name, eh!

It's nuts but the theory is if they were all armed someone could have popped him early on? Crazy but probably true :-(

chiefdave · Jun 19, 2015

The right to bear arms arguement is rubbish anyway in my opinion.

Firstly when it was put in the constitution, 1791, you'd be talking about a very different country and very different weapons.

Secondly, it's arbitrary, if they believe in it completely are you allowed to arm yourself with a nuclear weapon if you live in the states? Of course not so at some point someone has drawn an arbitrary line past which the right to bear arms doesn't apply. Why can't that line be moved back or restrictions put in place.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned there was more shootings in America as it was a bigger country. No doubt true but if you look at homicide deaths by firearm per 100K of the population America is right up there, way ahead of anywhere in Europe. They also have by far the highest civilian gun ownership. There are countries where the rate is higher, such as Jamaica and South Africa but I would suggest those countries have a high level of unregistered illegal firearms which aren't included in the figures.

chiefdave · Jun 19, 2015

Macca said:
It's nuts but the theory is if they were all armed someone could have popped him early on? Crazy but probably true :-(

They even want arms in schools. When there's school shootings you get them saying teachers should be armed and / or there should be armed guards in schools!

AJB1983 · Jun 19, 2015

If you read the second amendment it is actually the modern day interpretation of it that is the problem.
Jason Alexander (of Seinfeld fame) wrote a great piece on it a couple of years ago.
You have the right to bear arms as part of an organised militia to protect from invasion, or something like that.

wingy · Jun 19, 2015

AJB1983 said:
If you read the second amendment it is actually the modern day interpretation of it that is the problem.
Jason Alexander (of Seinfeld fame) wrote a great piece on it a couple of years ago.
You have the right to bear arms as part of an organised militia to protect from invasion, or something like that.

Ah that would have been us, thinking we'd be back.

lordsummerisle · Jun 19, 2015

AJB1983 said:
USA is only country that responds to a gun massacre (like sandy hook) where the pressure groups say 'relax the gun laws'.
For example, Here they were 'tightened' in response to two major horrific incidents.

You still get people who moan about it as well, saying ity's an overreaction after Hungerford and Dunblane, saying "what about the criminals, bank robbers etc who don't have gun licences?".

They seem to forget that Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton(may that c**t rot in hell) did have gun licences, and were thought perfectly acceptable people in the community to have them.

Think the same for Derrick Bird in the Lake District about 5 years ago was also a licenced gun holder.

People who apply for a gun licence should automatically be disbarred from holding a gun licence, and the only way to get a gun licence should be by applying for one.

ccfc92 · Jun 19, 2015

Otis said:
I thought it just encouraged people to have hairy hands and armpits.

Then they'd all have bear arms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXrNj3t6Vxo

mrtrench · Jun 20, 2015

I think every American should have the right to carry nuclear weapons. That way, they'd be even safer.

armybike · Jun 20, 2015

It's OK folks, it's the black guys fault!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/19/nra-board-member-charles-cotton-charleston_n_7623942.html

Macca · Jun 20, 2015

The gun fired the bullets but no doubt the Internet helped pull the trigger. Never has there been a time where such despicable opinions and influences can be found at the click of a button. That and the blurred lines between fantasy and reality inhabited by some of today's youngsters

Macca · Jun 20, 2015

And that's just Skybluetalk

Ashdown · Jun 20, 2015

I'm sure I read somewhere that 289 people are shot in the US everyday on average !! Everywhere in the world that there are guns freely available to the population there is mayhem.

armybike · Jun 20, 2015

Ashdown said:
I'm sure I read somewhere that 289 people are shot in the US everyday on average !! Everywhere in the world that there are guns freely available to the population there is mayhem.

"One in three people in the U.S. know someone who has been shot.

On average, 31 Americans are murdered with guns every day and 151 are treated for a gun assault in an emergency room.

Every day on average, 55 people kill themselves with a firearm, and 46 people are shot or killed in an accident with a gun.

The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.

A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure in a domestic homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/about-gun-violence

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 23, 2015

Don't give us any facts army

wingy · Mar 24, 2018

Well done to all those kids who participated across America today .
Some really good speeches toboot .
Life is cheap.
No doubt the NRA will shout Commies.

Captain Dart · Mar 24, 2018

Think most Americans just don't get it! (1 Viewer)

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