This is well worth a read (1 Viewer)

Otis

Well-Known Member
Already been linked on here on another thread, but I do believe this deserves its own thread.

If true there are some interesting facts in here.

Football League Paper: Relegation

Posted on: Mon 30 Apr 2012


By Chris Dunlavy


Relegation is a bitter pill at the best of times, and even worse when it comes with added woe. So if you're a fan of Coventry, Portsmouth or Doncaster, look away now.

Because, contrary to what Sky Blues deputy chairman John Clarke said this week, a demotion from the Championship is often far, far worse than a temporary blip.

"Many, many big clubs have fallen into the third tier of English football in the past 10 to 15 years," said Clarke, whose side have played in the top two divisions since 1964.

"Manchester City, Norwich City, Leeds United, Sheffield Wednesday, Southampton, Charlton Athletic and Sheffield United have all been relegated to the third tier but either bounced back or are in the process of bouncing back."

That's true, but what he didn't mention is that only Man City and Norwich managed to
bounce back immediately.

In fact, of the 30 teams relegated to the third tier in the last decade, only six made an instant return.

The last was Peterborough, promoted via the play-offs in 2011, whilst Norwich came back from a 7-1 first day thumping by Colchester to win the League One title in 2010.

The year before was the only occasion on which two teams have come straight back, with Nigel Pearson's Leicester taking the title and Scunthorpe winning the play-offs.

After that, you have to go way back to 2003/04 with Brighton and then 2002/03, when Crewe made an instant return.

Of the rest, three (Stockport, Luton and Grimsby) now play in the Conference, whilst Southend, Crewe, Gillingham, Rotherham and Bradford are in League Two.

In the same period, ten clubs bounced straight back to the Premier League, which tells you the scale of the task facing this year's relegated trio.

Why is it so tough? In a word, money. The average wage of a Championship player is £4,059 per week.

That's fine when you're in the Championship. Unfortunately you lose about £3.7m in solidarity payments and TV money in League One. By any club's standards, that it is a massive percentage of revenue to lose.

And while clubs relegated from the top flight can absorb short-term losses thanks to £48m parachute payments over four years, those relegated from the Championship get just £325,000.

That's why the average wage in League One is just £1,410 per week. And it's also why big clubs with a long history in the Championship and Premier League (where the average wage is £22,353) need to cut costs and fast.

They need a complete overhaul of the squad and coaching staff, which takes time and causes huge disruption.

That's why Scunthorpe and Peterborough - two clubs who always lacked the resource to shell out Championship wages - came straight back whilst the likes of Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday floundered. On that basis, my money's on Doncaster.
 

SkyBlueScottie

Well-Known Member
Its pretty clear that our owners have been moving people on who are on or around the average championship wage, therefore we stand just as good a chance as Donny do in returning to the championship.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Its pretty clear that our owners have been moving people on who are on or around the average championship wage, therefore we stand just as good a chance as Donny do in returning to the championship.

Bell and Wood are reportedly on £8,000 a week as is Baker (though I do find that hard to believe). McSheffrey also will be on a good size salary.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
The average is 1,410 - more than I or most of you probably earn. That includes many teams who average around 5,000 supporters. Our attnedances will be at least double and I suspect often treble that figure. We should be therefore able to at teh very least compete in terms of wage structure and with the attraction of being a 'big club' and playing at the Ricoh, selling the club to players shouldn't be too dificult.

Oddly this article has had the reverse effect on me and makes me feel mopre optimistic about next season. I appreciate other bigger sides have failed, but IF our house is in order, then it shouldn't take an awful amount of investment to make us a force. KI would be quite happy to sell anyone that we can attain a reasonable value for or move on anyone who is on silly wages regardless of talent and give whoever the manager is, a budget that can compete. If its AT then he is a decent scout in the lower leagues and the attraction of playing for us, should sell itself.

Coventry City, League 1 champions 2012/13
 
'Coventry City, League 1 champions 2012/13'

I don't give a shit if it is the third tier, there or thereabouts would promise more League excitement than I have ever been treated to as a Cov fan so bring it on!
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
Odd

Wood and bell would command between them what a mid table squad gets in wages

For that reason, we will struggle
 
Bell and Wood are reportedly on £8,000 a week as is Baker (though I do find that hard to believe). McSheffrey also will be on a good size salary.

I would be suprised if this is true. SISU had to cut down our total wage bill (all playing and non-playing staff) from £8.5m last season to £3.5m this, so the decision to offer four year contracts to the tune of £8k a week doesn't add up for me, whatever levels of financial / footballing ineptitude are involved.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
I understand Cranie and Clingan were offered £8k p/w (reported as twice the average which as we can see above is £4k) but Bell and Baker were just long contract extensions. With the precarious position we were in when signed and the cost cutting employed, I would be amazed if they were anything like £8k. However, equally I can't see them settling for much less than average so £4k is probably close to being right.

Are they three times better than the average L1 player? I have not been as down on them as many on this forum and think they both offer our squad something, particularly a league below, but if we can move them on and use their wages to fund four above average L1 players instead of 2, then we must do it. The trouble is, who would take them and give them the same deal because I doubt they would move for less money with such a lengthy contract secured.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
Anyone consider what clauses may be in players contracts regarding relegation? I'm sure there will be something pertaining to relegation, wages and bonuses etc in the likely hood the club is relegated.

One such clause could easily read "If the club is relegated from the championship a players income and bonuses will have a net reduction of 40% of his current level automatically and effective from June 1st following relegation"

Not saying that's exactly how it would be but a clause of this nature could be in there. Is it unreasonable? I don't think so. Players could be made aware of this and have little choice in accepting unless you are out of contract. Arh but these dumb asses will not have done so and their contracts will remain in place as is! So the club must get rid of the higher earners.
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
Baker will be useful in league one, he scored 10 goals by mid october, including 2 hattricks in 2 games during his spell in league one

He will be an asset there, 10 more like him and we would be in with a shout
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
The average is 1,410 - more than I or most of you probably earn. That includes many teams who average around 5,000 supporters. Our attendances will be at least double and I suspect often treble that figure. We should be therefore able to at teh very least compete in terms of wage structure and with the attraction of being a 'big club' and playing at the Ricoh, selling the club to players shouldn't be too dificult.

Oddly this article has had the reverse effect on me and makes me feel mopre optimistic about next season. I appreciate other bigger sides have failed, but IF our house is in order, then it shouldn't take an awful amount of investment to make us a force. KI would be quite happy to sell anyone that we can attain a reasonable value for or move on anyone who is on silly wages regardless of talent and give whoever the manager is, a budget that can compete. If its AT then he is a decent scout in the lower leagues and the attraction of playing for us, should sell itself.

Coventry City, League 1 champions 2012/13



'Our attendances will be at least double and I suspect often treble that figure. We should be therefore able to at the very least compete in terms of wage structure.'



Hang on, Rob, that doesn't make sense. Unless we get 22,000 or whatever it is that is required to break even, we will lose money. Doesn't matter if our attendances are double or treble if we don't meet our break even figure.

We therefore have a competitive wage structure we will continue to lose money.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
'Our attendances will be at least double and I suspect often treble that figure. We should be therefore able to at the very least compete in terms of wage structure.'



Hang on, Rob, that doesn't make sense. Unless we get 22,000 or whatever it is that is required to break even, we will lose money. Doesn't matter if our attendances are double or treble if we don't meet our break even figure.

We therefore have a competitive wage structure we will continue to lose money.

That 22k breakeven was besed on the i&e at the time and included players on much more money. It was never attainable without on-field success and whoever dreamt up that budget didn't understand much about football.

With lower wages we would need a much lower attendance figure for breakeven, but the loss of tv revenue and the loss of income from plyer sales, advertising and other income will be offset against reduced budget for salaries.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Well that was going to be another point. Sponsorship and advertising is going to be less for sure.

Be interesting to know what the break even would be for League One wages.

This could be a saving grace for us if we can keep wages down and do well.

Do well and attendances will obviously increase.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Is it right to assume then that the 22,000 break even figure was only based on Premiership wages?

If so, I didn't know that was the case.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
League 1 is not the disaster most feel it is. For a club like us it can be seen as an opportunity. the likes of Southampton mirror ourselves very well apart from the admin issue. We can financially compete here, encourage larger than a few thousand to pay to watch and afford better than most on player deals and wages.
We should do well once the dust settles. I am just not sure about Thorn or a new set up coming in? Perhaps if Harrison was gone I'd feel happier.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
Is it right to assume then that the 22,000 break even figure was only based on Premiership wages?

If so, I didn't know that was the case.
I think the 22k break even figure is the attendance that SISU and Ranson originally budgeted for, when they realised they were getting no where near that they had to re budget and make cuts in the wages.
 

ggrady

New Member
Players get like 25% wage cut for relegation. I. There contracts. I learnt that from football manager so it's reliable! ;)
 

singers_pore

Well-Known Member
Our attnedances will be at least double and I suspect often treble that figure. We should be therefore able to at teh very least compete in terms of wage structure

The problem with that argument is that unlike most clubs we get no money from stadium sponsorship (massive money), food and beverage sales, car park fees etc. Plus we have to pay 1.2m in rent every year.

In those circumstances I would say that we will not be able to compete in terms of wage structure even with larger attendances than many others in this division. Plus SISU are looking for us to break even while nearly all the other L1 clubs are losing money.

In short, I bet our players' wages next season will be no higher than average and possibly even less. At least while SISU remain in charge, that is.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
say our average wage comes down to 2500 per player (given the number of young players and the number of players we need to draft in from lower divisions it is possible) and assuming a first team squad of 30 (including academy players like Willis - dont forget we will be running a development squad too) then player wage costs are £3.9m. Turnover would need to be £7.1m (excluding player sales) - because player wages have to be 55% of turnover in league 1

average salary say £1500 that would be £2.34m and Turnover £4.25m

average salary say £4000 that would be £6.24m and Turnover £11.4m

That is before other wages (manager, coach, assistant, commercial staff, academy etc) and other overheads including rent etc

I think they have to be driving the average player wage bill below £2500 p w on average to make the finances work.

Don't get your hopes up about the quality of any signings
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
The problem with quotes is that unless you quote the whole piece then its out of context.

You missed the part that said "but IF our house is in order, then it shouldn't take an awful amount of investment to make us a force"

That's a big IF and I'm well aware that we are currently miles away from having our house in order.
 

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
It all brings it home that with just a little bit of monetary help from SISU we could have avoided the drop and the loss of £3.7 million.
 

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