This Summer (1 Viewer)

[Terry Gibson's perm]

It always feels like I single Ngandu but the lad is 21 and has never played a league game in this country yet seems to be fit for the under 23’s, is Rus injured as he isn’t in the team today?
It is getting harder to take under 23’s from the prem and get them into our team as we are only just below some of them.

 

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[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Understand your position but I think you're massively underestimating how difficult recruitment is.

Every single transfer you make is a risk. There is no guaranteed successes even when buying elite talent (think Torres & Shevchenko to Chelsea, Alexis Sanchez to United etc.) but largely buying proven quality = lower risk but naturally = bigger outlays.

Clubs with less budget, such as ourselves, are trying to buy players that can compete in one of the toughest leagues in the world for very little outlay. Naturally this means that the risk on every single transfer is even greater so in truth you'd expect the majority of them to fail. Of the names you list only 3 were even signed to play at this level.

So there will always be missteps but just bagging one Sam McCallum, one Gus Hamer or one Viktor Gyökeres more than covers the outlay on the "failures" & if you look at our record under the current recruitment structure it's nothing short of exceptional that a team with so little spent on it can even compete at this level.
Do you not think it's pretty decent that a squad assembled for a total transfer fee outlay of approx. £4m can be contesting a playoff place?
Some teams in this league pay that to a single player in a year.

You are right that there are other clubs that do it well too but I guarantee you they have also made signings that haven't quite cut the mustard too & I'd wager they spent far more on them in the process.


P.S. What level is Kastaneer playing at now?

Whilst this is true. When you're in the position where you have to operate on a smaller budget than most and take more calculated risks, you would think that club would look to impose a risk mitigation strategy in their recruitment model by being cautious about what is offered to who.

Like I said, offering similar length contracts to both players who are considered a pretty sizeable calculated risk and to those considered as marquee signings is a pretty crap strategy.

 

[shmmeee]

they are all on championship contracts. The wage hike across the squad was 40% before any signings this season

The different between the average L1 contract and the average Championship contract is more like 400%. But sure if you want to believe Josh Pask is on £12k/wk crack on.

 

[SkyblueDad]

It always feels like I single Ngandu but the lad is 21 and has never played a league game in this country yet seems to be fit for the under 23’s, is Rus injured as he isn’t in the team today?
It is getting harder to take under 23’s from the prem and get them into our team as we are only just below some of them.

Jonny Ngandu is a very good player and is/was a real prospect. He has got back into the team after injury issues and is again part of our successful reserve team, I’m hoping he gets a game or two in the run up to the seasons.

 

[Grendel]

The different between the average L1 contract and the average Championship contract is more like 400%. But sure if you want to believe Josh Pask is on £12k/wk crack on.

im hardly saying that but all these players will have had contractual bonuses abs annual wages increases built in so players in contract will be on wages above when signed and hardly attractive to lower league clubs

 

[larry_david]

Jonny Ngandu is a very good player and is/was a real prospect. He has got back into the team after injury issues and is again part of our successful reserve team, I’m hoping he gets a game or two in the run up to the seasons.

He's u23s captain which says alot about his as a character and within the squad. But he's not made the bench once this season. I'd have loved him to get a loan out in Jan

 

[Frostie]

He's u23s captain which says alot about his as a character and within the squad. But he's not made the bench once this season. I'd have loved him to get a loan out in Jan

He won't make it here. The fact he's behind 17 year old Howley says a lot. He's a bit unfortunate that we have progressed so quickly but it is what it is.

 

[shmmeee]

im hardly saying that but all these players will have had contractual bonuses abs annual wages increases built in so players in contract will be on wages above when signed and hardly attractive to lower league clubs

Yeah but it’s out third season since promotion so everyone signed in L1 can leave for free, we don’t need to find buyers for them. It’s just the five we’ve signed since we do.

 

[Johhny Blue]

I think that’s where a likely big player sale will have to come in unfortunately

So Allen stays?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I'm aware of that. But why not offer a 2 year contract with an option of another year?

If we feel obliged to willingly offer 3 year contracts to signings that either no one else wants or ones with more risk attached than most, then that in itself proves the fundamental flaw I'm talking about.

Good point, nothing in Hilssner’s career before and after CCFC says he should be in a position to command a three year deal at a Championship club. We should hold all the cards

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Kastaneer is about to be relegated from the Dutch top flight actually. Anyone I have spoken to about him here has largely laughed when his name has come up. 25 appearances in 28 games, zero goals, zero assists. PEC Zwolle are the fodder of the league with 5 wins.

He was a shite signing and I think whilst you make some good points about the difficulties of recruitment, there is an argument to be made that many of our signings made in the last few seasons have flopped. I will probably go through the list again at the end of the season, but whilst I think you obviously need to gamble sometimes, having a budget like ours means the margin for error is very small. I think there is room for improvement in this department certainly.

Actually had to look up his stats as thought it was too bad to be true. He did win MOTM one game on Whoscored

 

[long way home]

Who out of the U/23s need clearing out ?

U23s. McGrath, Finnegan, Ngandu, Evans-Harriot and Drysdale. If Reid doesn't show up well in summer the exit door will hit his arse aswell.

Players that are going to be hard to move on will be Waghorn, Walker, De Costa, Hilsner and Kelly as all on decent contracts and all will not make us stronger or be part of trying to elevate us again next season. I don't know what that saves collectively but I'm sure with a few more like Jones, Shipley and Rowe let go it could create some improvements. I'm sure 1 of the top players will be sold as well, it's sort of an enabatable outcome to the press we have got.

Busy summer a head and massive decisions to be made especially with a very hectic start to the season. Depth I'm sure will play a part in some decisions.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Good point, nothing in Hilssner’s career before and after CCFC says he should be in a position to command a three year deal at a Championship club. We should hold all the cards

The same applies to a lot of our signings to be honest. The mentality throughout the club at times very much appears as one that is synonymous with a League One/Two club.

 

[Gibbo]

I wonder whether we are deluding ourselves about how much progress we have made this year.

1. How many of our squad would be in the matchday squad of a team in the top two automatic places? I venture only Moore, O'Hare and Hamer. for certain with Victor as a possible. We are only one player and a 'possible' better than last year. Therefore the rest of the team is bang average for the division and our position fairly reflects that.

2. Much of the transfer activity has been in clearing out those clearly not up to snuff - Max, Baka and Pask for instance. But this only impacts on results when we have injury problems. It helps to have a good depth of squad but top line quality in the first team matters more. See point 1.

Although everybody bangs on about an attacking midfielder; that problem would be solved by O'Hare converting more chances (boy was I relieved that Pickering did the job for him), but the real problem is central defence. Too many avoidable goals for this level. MacFadz and Hyam are certainly sound, but slow and error prone. If we are to solidify our position further then the defence needs to be as tight as the proverbial duck's arse. And it isn't.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

1. How many of our squad would be in the matchday squad of a team in the top two automatic places? I venture only Moore, O'Hare and Hamer. for certain with Victor as a possible. We are only one player and a 'possible' better than last year. Therefore the rest of the team is bang average for the division and our position fairly reflects that.

Moore as a back up like Wilson is for us, O’Hare no chance, Bournemouth bench Saturday had Cantwell and Jamal Lowe, Hamer no.

Gyokeres is the only one I’d say

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Moore as a back up like Wilson is for us, O’Hare no chance, Bournemouth bench Saturday had Cantwell and Jamal Lowe, Hamer no.

Gyokeres is the only one I’d say

@Deleted member 9744 says Godden gets into every matchday squad in the league.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I wonder whether we are deluding ourselves about how much progress we have made this year.

1. How many of our squad would be in the matchday squad of a team in the top two automatic places? I venture only Moore, O'Hare and Hamer. for certain with Victor as a possible. We are only one player and a 'possible' better than last year. Therefore the rest of the team is bang average for the division and our position fairly reflects that.

2. Much of the transfer activity has been in clearing out those clearly not up to snuff - Max, Baka and Pask for instance. But this only impacts on results when we have injury problems. It helps to have a good depth of squad but top line quality in the first team matters more. See point 1.

Although everybody bangs on about an attacking midfielder; that problem would be solved by O'Hare converting more chances (boy was I relieved that Pickering did the job for him), but the real problem is central defence. Too many avoidable goals for this level. MacFadz and Hyam are certainly sound, but slow and error prone. If we are to solidify our position further then the defence needs to be as tight as the proverbial duck's arse. And it isn't.

Fair comments. I think Hyam is progressing and Jcs would be good. Not sure rose has progressed and fadz last season at the higher level so yep needs addressing

 

[Gibbo]

Moore as a back up like Wilson is for us, O’Hare no chance, Bournemouth bench Saturday had Cantwell and Jamal Lowe, Hamer no.

Gyokeres is the only one I’d say

In which case we should not be disappointed by our position nor have excessive expectations of their worth in the market. I suspect my three would at least make the bench at Bournemouth and Fulham. O'Hare's stats are just too good to ignore.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

In which case we should not be disappointed by our position nor have excessive expectations of their worth in the market. I suspect my three would at least make the bench at Bournemouth and Fulham. O'Hare's stats are just too good to ignore.

It would seem plenty ignore his stats as of yet no one has made a move for him. Some of the stats he tops are not necessarily needed in a better team either

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

The same applies to a lot of our signings to be honest. The mentality throughout the club at times very much appears as one that is synonymous with a League One/Two club.

Was it three years we gave Allen too? That should be for an exceptional youngster or important first team player

 

[shmmeee]

I wonder whether we are deluding ourselves about how much progress we have made this year.

1. How many of our squad would be in the matchday squad of a team in the top two automatic places? I venture only Moore, O'Hare and Hamer. for certain with Victor as a possible. We are only one player and a 'possible' better than last year. Therefore the rest of the team is bang average for the division and our position fairly reflects that.

2. Much of the transfer activity has been in clearing out those clearly not up to snuff - Max, Baka and Pask for instance. But this only impacts on results when we have injury problems. It helps to have a good depth of squad but top line quality in the first team matters more. See point 1.

Although everybody bangs on about an attacking midfielder; that problem would be solved by O'Hare converting more chances (boy was I relieved that Pickering did the job for him), but the real problem is central defence. Too many avoidable goals for this level. MacFadz and Hyam are certainly sound, but slow and error prone. If we are to solidify our position further then the defence needs to be as tight as the proverbial duck's arse. And it isn't.

On point 1, we were miles off average last season, average is an improvement. Also no way does Moore get into a top 2 side. Bang average Championship keeper (which is miles ahead of what we had last season).

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Was it three years we gave Allen too? That should be for an exceptional youngster or important first team player

Their new deals expire in 2024 I think. I guess it counts as a two and a half year deal on their new salaries? Not sure I would've really committed to that personally though, on both counts.

It very much seems that we're almost deploying a Ken Dulieu tactic of giving out long term contracts to players whose value is depreciating or is relatively nominal, as the club believes it adds some kind of security to itself. However this so called 'strategy' is already backfiring badly and I can only see the repercussions worsening if they continue with it.

 

[shmmeee]

Their new deals expire in 2024 I think. I guess it counts as a two and a half year deal on their new salaries? Not sure I would've really committed to that personally though, on both counts.

It very much seems that we're almost deploying a Ken Dulieu tactic of giving out long term contracts to players whose value is depreciating or is relatively nominal, as the club believes it adds some kind of security to itself. However this so called 'strategy' is already backfiring badly and I can only see the repercussions worsening.

At least with Bidwell so presumably others it’s a makeweight because we can’t compete directly on wages.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

At least with Bidwell so presumably others it’s a makeweight because we can’t compete directly on wages.

Well yeah that's what the club's strategy will be when trying to secure their targets. Bidwell is a prime example as I'd imagine that's how we beat the competition and got him to sign on the dotted line.

But overall it's a very dangerous and reckless tactic to deploy as if the signing doesn't work out then they're stuck with said player for far longer than necessary - as already shown on numerous counts.

 

[1ccfc]

But overall it's a very dangerous and reckless tactic to deploy as if the signing doesn't work out then they're stuck with said player for far longer than necessary - as already shown on numerous counts.

It is so difficult for clubs in our financial situation. You are correct in what you say, but just to play devils advocate, the club have previously been criticized for only giving 2 year deals. Obviously, when we sign players it is in the hope they succeed. If they are on a 2 year deal and have a great first year, then the control slightly shifts to the player who is already in the final year of their contract. We all know our model is based on buying and selling players, so I imagine the club is trying to protect the assets from the start. No club gets every signing right.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

It is so difficult for clubs in our financial situation. You are correct in what you say, but just to play devils advocate, the club have previously been criticized for only giving 2 year deals. Obviously, when we sign players it is in the hope they succeed. If they are on a 2 year deal and have a great first year, then the control slightly shifts to the player who is already in the final year of their contract. We all know our model is based on buying and selling players, so I imagine the club is trying to protect the assets from the start. No club gets every signing right.

Offering a two year deal with a year's option in the club's favour shouldn't be much of a deal breaker when signing players such as Kastaneer, Hilssner or Dacosta. And if it is, simply move on. Players of that ilk should be chomping at the bit at the prospect of joining a Championship club when you take into account where they were playing previously.

Equally, if the club is worried that fans will criticise them for giving a 2 year contract/2 year contract with an option of a further year in their favour to players that physically no other club wants, then that proves my point regarding a poor mentality.

 

[1ccfc]

Offering a two year deal with a year's option in the club's favour shouldn't be much of a deal breaker when signing players such as Kastaneer, Hilssner or Dacosta. And if it is, simply move on. Players of that ilk should be chomping at the bit at the prospect of joining a Championship club when you take into account where they were playing previously.

Equally, if the club is worried that fans will criticise them for giving a 2 year contract/2 year contract with an option of a further year in their favour to players that physically no other club wants, then that proves my point regarding a poor mentality.

I really hope the club is not giving out any contracts based on being worried fans will criticise them! Out of interest would you have offered Hamer and Viktor two year deals with a third year option, and then moved on if they were holding out for a straight 3 year deal? Unfortunately it can't always be the club dictating and at some point you role the dice and take a chance.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I really hope the club is not giving out any contracts based on being worried fans will criticise them! Out of interest would you have offered Hamer and Viktor two year deals with a third year option, and then moved on if they were holding out for a straight 3 year deal? Unfortunately it can't always be the club dictating and at some point you role the dice and take a chance.

Hamer and Gyokeres were somewhat marquee signings with pedigree and potential prior to signing for us. So offering long term deals for signings who have cost a significant sum, are young and have potential is a given.

What's strange though is how the club also offers similar length contracts to signings who have a much higher risk factor attached than most such as Jobello and Kastaneer.

What kind of strategy is that?

You're also misinterpreting my critique. I'm fully aware we have to take more calculated risks than most due to our budgetary constraints so I've never really taken that much issue with the type of player we've targeted in the past, bar a few.

My core issue is how we have no risk mitigation strategy in place whatsoever and insist on giving long term contracts to players that simply aren't deserving of them. Which is nothing short of problematic when our recruitment strategy is arguably higher in risk than the vast majority of clubs in our league.

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Anyone fancy Tariqe Fosu? His contract ends in 2023, has played Championship before and isnt getting a look in at Brentford this season, a winger that can play SS or AM but most importantly can find the net, transfermarkkt varlues him around 2 million at the moment, potentially on loan?

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Cedric Kipré would offer some decent cover at Center back or potentially allow McFadz to step aside and push Hyam into the middle, valued at under a million and contract expires 2024, played for Wigan and currently West Brom very strong, or Dominic Iorfa of Sheffield Weds contract expires 2023 and valued at just over a million, solid championship Center back who has featured 19 times for Sheff Weds but mainly from bench as he has been injured quick and strong right sided center back

 

[Saddlebrains]

My gripe comes from the fact we never utilise the out of contract market much at all compared to other clubs.

There are always some solid players for this league knocking around that have expired yet we seem to spend a fee. Yes i know wages are usually high, but unless I'm being thick surely getting in 4 or 5 decent proven out of contract players is better than squirting money having a punt at the likes of Dacosta, Hillsner etc?

I mean look at these below that are out of contract this summer that could be achievable and improve us massively


Jed Wallace LWB
Alfie Mawson CB
Kristian Pedersen LB
Will Vaulks CM
Ben Osborn CM
Joe Rothwell CM
Harry Toffollo LWB
Tom Barkhuizen CAM
Yoann Barbet CB
Tom Lockyer CB
Reece Burke CB
Callum Elder LWB
Marlon Pack CM



And they're only the ones i think we could realistically get in wage wise, the list is 4 times longer

Our biggest mistake last window was was turning down Scott Twine and Jamie Paterson and taking a punt on the prick that is Bright, and a has been in Waghorn

Id wager if we had got them 2 in and not the latter we would be sitting pretty in the top 6

 

[Saddlebrains]

Also, all those out of contract id let go. Even Fadz. Hes been unreal for us but you're stevie wonder if you cant see that his legs are now giving up on him since the turn of the year.

We need to find suitors for Kelly, Walker, Waghorn, Dacosta, Hillsner. Even on a free, take the hit but release their wage.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Be interesting how things pan out wages wise throughout the league There’s been big contracts dished out in the past but doubt they will now still a fair number of championship clubs in a lot of debt and shelling out big wages on players they want rid of.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Also, all those out of contract id let go. Even Fadz. Hes been unreal for us but you're stevie wonder if you cant see that his legs are now giving up on him since the turn of the year.

We need to find suitors for Kelly, Walker, Waghorn, Dacosta, Hillsner. Even on a free, take the hit but release their wage.

But you’re not freeing their wage it comes out of the same budget all at once rather than weekly. Might aswell keep them

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

it's sort of an enabatable

It's a sort of that, as you say.