Thorn Post Match Interview (1 Viewer)

torchomatic · Oct 24, 2011

While obviously it was Bigi's fault we lost, he does have to take some responsibility for his reckless challenge and I think Thorn had every right to have a go. It's difficult enough getting points as it is without getting sent off.

I'm sure Bigi has been lapping up all the over the top hype over the last couple of months so he needs to realise that football isn't all about praise and adulation.

Thorn is the best manager we've had since Sillett, I reckon.

Mumford and Daughter said:
Heres the link

From 23 mins in http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00kvkbs

now this is unprofessional, saying he doesn't care about a player who had just turned 18. Pointing the finger at a player who has been one of the few highlights of the season. Thorn is very naive if he feels Bigi was the fault behind the defeat.

Macca · Oct 24, 2011

torchomatic said:
While obviously it was Bigi's fault we lost, he does have to take some responsibility for his reckless challenge and I think Thorn had every right to have a go. It's difficult enough getting points as it is without getting sent off.

I'm sure Bigi has been lapping up all the over the top hype over the last couple of months so he needs to realise that football isn't all about praise and adulation.

Thorn is the best manager we've had since Sillett, I reckon.

fair assessment, take the highs with the lows its a good learning curve for.r him,

in addition AT is a management rookie in the same way as Bigi is a rookie playe

Grendel · Oct 24, 2011

torchomatic said:
While obviously it was Bigi's fault we lost, he does have to take some responsibility for his reckless challenge and I think Thorn had every right to have a go. It's difficult enough getting points as it is without getting sent off.

I'm sure Bigi has been lapping up all the over the top hype over the last couple of months so he needs to realise that football isn't all about praise and adulation.

Thorn is the best manager we've had since Sillett, I reckon.

Mmm - he looks and sounds a bit like Sillett but behind the jovial image he was quite an astute tactician. So I think not - more like Don Mackay - got the job by default and was a very brief blip on the managerial landscape.

Macca · Oct 24, 2011

If he keeps us up this season he will have triumphed

Grendel · Oct 24, 2011

Macca said:
If he keeps us up this season he will have triumphed

I would agree with that but he won't.

Sky Blue Sheepy · Oct 24, 2011

kduffy said:
I would agree with that but he won't.

a defeatist attitude like that won't help...

Grendel · Oct 24, 2011

Sky Blue Sheepy said:
a defeatist attitude like that won't help...

True but we keep getting defeated - even when we shouldn't.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

torchomatic said:
While obviously it was Bigi's fault we lost, he does have to take some responsibility for his reckless challenge and I think Thorn had every right to have a go. It's difficult enough getting points as it is without getting sent off.

I'm sure Bigi has been lapping up all the over the top hype over the last couple of months so he needs to realise that football isn't all about praise and adulation.

Thorn is the best manager we've had since Sillett, I reckon.

Better then strachan? Better then black? think so.
He is not a manager, he is scout. His record speaks for itself. Sorry but since when is it right to blame individuals post match on air? That is kept in house.

You do not say 'I don't care' about one of your own players, especlly a 18 year old.

Otis · Oct 24, 2011

Bottom line is that we have no idea whether Thorn is a good manager or not. Too early yet. If he makes more mistakes like he did on Saturday though and we could know sooner rather than later.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

Otis said:
Bottom line is that we have no idea whether Thorn is a good manager or not. Too early yet. If he makes more mistakes like he did on Saturday though and we could know sooner rather than later.

For me, his record speaks for itself.

In 25 games in charge weve seen just 5 wins. That is a very poor return and that includes the honeymoon period from last season. Last 15 matches just two wins. Managers like Coleman and Booithroyd, Dowie and Adams all got the sack for similar stats.

skybluesteve76 · Oct 24, 2011

He will get the chop soon I think.

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
For me, his record speaks for itself.

In 25 games in charge weve seen just 5 wins. That is a very poor return and that includes the honeymoon period from last season. Last 15 matches just two wins. Managers like Coleman and Booithroyd, Dowie and Adams all got the sack for similar stats.

Thorn has the worst squad than all of those managers, and is having to play 3 teenagers most weeks. Add to that we have major injury/fitness problems on an already depleted squad - McDonald, Eastwood, platt, deegan, mcsheffery, baker, Clarke, McPake are either have been or still injured, or have had fitness problem.

Not only has he got the worst squad he's got no money to bring in loans, or sign people on short term contracts,etc. We've lost what 7-8 outfield players and only been able to bring in one but actually had to sell first.

Thorn is no messiah, but I can't see anyone else doing much better. A

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

you feel sorry for Thorn and thats the problem, your judgement is clouded by the circumstances, the fact we've dropped so many points late one shows the team is good enough and yet were still not performing.

His lack of changes Saturday proved to me that he is not tatically aware.

Tankie · Oct 24, 2011

Hi Fellas.
It's sad to see the honey moon period, between Thorn and the fans getting a little ragged round the edges, for here was the new Messiah, the chosen one, who would lead us into the promised Land, and a manager the fans quickly bonded with from the onset of his tenure as Sky Blue manager. therefore It seems a little premature to lay such blame on him to the extent that there are already calls for him to go.
A/D has not yet achieved all of his coaching Badges, so its still a learning curve for him as well as Biggi, there can be no doubt, that the entertainment value of the football has increased out of all expectancy,and is a million miles away from the Bothroyde/Coleman, rubish we had to endure week in week out.
Speaking to the media, is still a little alien to A/T and he maybe needs to Hone up this part of his act, but I've not seen anything yet, to make me shout for his resignation,His appointment, although, down to financial restraints, was a refreshing change, and lets not forget his non existant transfer budget has seen him not able to add to our squad, I dont believe any manager in our history has had to work under such a tight budget.
WE should really have beaten Burnly on Saturday, mistakes were made on and off the field, but that's Football, and Sh*t happens, Andy Thorn is still a rookie manager but at this time, I think we've seen enough of an improvement to continue to support him.
have a nice day.......tankie

Otis · Oct 24, 2011

stupot07 said:
Thorn has the worst squad than all of those managers, and is having to play 3 teenagers most weeks. Add to that we have major injury/fitness problems on an already depleted squad - McDonald, Eastwood, platt, deegan, mcsheffery, baker, Clarke, McPake are either have been or still injured, or have had fitness problem.

Not only has he got the worst squad he's got no money to bring in loans, or sign people on short term contracts,etc. We've lost what 7-8 outfield players and only been able to bring in one but actually had to sell first.

Thorn is no messiah, but I can't see anyone else doing much better. A

This was kind of my feeling too. Think we can ignore most of the defeats as it is plain to see what Thorn has to work with. What we don't need though is more baffling stuff like on Saturday where we just sat back and said to Burnley, go on then see if you can get a second.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 24, 2011

just to be devils advocate for a second regarding the squad.

Not sure AT sees the squad as the worst we have had. Yes he has said we could do with more players (what manager doesnt) but he has said often that the players he has are capable of competing with any one in this division. Assuming we believe what he says, a big thing is made of AT's honesty, then if the squad is good enough then the fault lies elsewhere. A fault could be that despite his likeability the manager isnt good enough. Had the club had the finance needed I doubt he would have got the job in the first place.

Just to be clear, I see no point in getting rid of AT - I am not advocating that. But i do think he has to up his game, as Otis said there were things Saturday that were worrying - I am putting that down to ATs own inexperience as a manager

WillieStanley · Oct 24, 2011

what we do have to hope for is that he IS learning and not got the Strachanesque characteristic of complete stubbornness...

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
you feel sorry for Thorn and thats the problem, your judgement is clouded by the circumstances, the fact we've dropped so many points late one shows the team is good enough and yet were still not performing.

His lack of changes Saturday proved to me that he is not tatically aware.

A game is played over 90 mins (+ stoppage time). Just because we are losing points in injury time how does that prove the team are good enough?

How many times have Manu won a game in stoppage time? Does that make them poor because they can't win it within 90 mins?

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

Thats my point, we have the players to keep us in the league but if we can't play to the final whistle then were screwed. This was happening last season aswell under Thorn, Burnley, Preston and Middlesbrough. If we can stay on par with teams 90 why not the last 3 mins?? Can;t blame the young players for that. 1/4 of all games under Thorn we have conceded in the 90+ min.

What scares me, he tells the players to sit on a goal lead instead going for the 2nd.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

reachingmike said:
doesn't it mean that the squad have the physical talent to get results but lack the unity of purpose, direction, focus, concentration, mental toughness etc.

Exactly, 1/4 of games under Thorn weve conceded 90 +.

Why? Cant be blaming young players for that

oldskyblue58 · Oct 24, 2011

Having watched the highlights on the Sky site I am even more confused as to why both goals for Burnley were just the youngsters fault.

Yes Bigi lost his man but Two defenders went for the same ball and failed to win it leaving a hole in the middle of our defense, Clingan reacted slowly (his job in partat base of diamond is to cover the breaking runners through midfield), the move started with the fullback being under no pressure to punt a hopeful ball upfield which we failed to deal with, we failed to defend the flick on

Second goal - yes ROD miskicked, probably we were a little slow coming out but there are some senior players not picking up their man and defending the ball.

Got to say it wasnt all down to the youngsters AT

btw anyone see Chelsea game where despite having 9 men they had the better of the game against QPR - food for thought ?

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2011

reachingmike said:
doesn't it mean that the squad have the physical talent to get results but lack the unity of purpose, direction, focus, concentration, mental toughness etc.

Focus, concentration and mental toughness are individual characteristics which the manager can't do a lot about when your on the pitch.

Even in the Manu game, young switched off and let Milner run off him.

Otis · Oct 24, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
Exactly, 1/4 of games under Thorn weve conceded 90 +.

Why? Cant be blaming young players for that

Thing is, if we weren't scoring an average of less than a goal a game we wouldn't be having this conversation. When we are on top in matches we are not putting teams away.

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2011

Otis said:
Thing is, if we weren't scoring an average of less than a goal a game we wouldn't be having this conversation. When we are on top in matches we are not putting teams away.

Exactly, before saturday only one of our strikers had scored in the league, the midfield has contributed 3 this season but none of them were on the pitch on Saturday. As impressive as bigi and Thomas are they've only had 1 maybe 2 shots each this season and haven't really shown much desire to get forward.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 24, 2011

Does the manager encourage them to get forward though?. From reports i have heard Bigi for example has a good shot on him, but we hardly ever see it. (Biggi 3 shots Thomas 3 shots so far)

I think just as worrying is our shot conversion rate. In total we have had 152 shots and scored 11 goals that is far from impressive. Juke converts 1 in 9 which is about average per FA stats so the rest are pretty poor.

Bottom line is that fans are worried, they understand the restraints on AT, but as yet there is precious little success from our team and attractive style. Most here would agree that we pass the ball nicely in our own area but that we lack speed and cutting edge. By the time we get the ball to our forwards the opposition have had far too long to get ready for the attack. The manager sets the style of play and like he says if you accept the plaudits you also have to accept the knock backs too.

Totally accept he is hindered by lack of investment but AT is not immune to making mistakes. At this level managers have to be sharper, you dont get much time to learn. He like the team will have off days. After 25 competitive games of the diamond formation then the players should understand the requirements. That the system is fragile when under pressure says to me they dont fully understand it and that they are not fully equipped to play it. They dont have the confidence to play the ball quickly & take a risk. Yes we have had a few good results but we have ridden our luck in getting them. After Saturday, despite one of the best first halves we have had this season, I am more concerned than I was

Otis · Oct 24, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
Does the manager encourage them to get forward though?. From reports i have heard Bigi for example has a good shot on him, but we hardly ever see it. (Biggi 3 shots Thomas 3 shots so far)

I think just as worrying is our shot conversion rate. In total we have had 152 shots and scored 11 goals that is far from impressive. Juke converts 1 in 9 which is about average per FA stats so the rest are pretty poor.

Bottom line is that fans are worried, they understand the restraints on AT, but as yet there is precious little success from our team and attractive style. Most here would agree that we pass the ball nicely in our own area but that we lack speed and cutting edge. By the time we get the ball to our forwards the opposition have had far too long to get ready for the attack. The manager sets the style of play and like he says if you accept the plaudits you also have to accept the knock backs too.

Totally accept he is hindered by lack of investment but AT is not immune to making mistakes. At this level managers have to be sharper, you dont get much time to learn. He like the team will have off days. After 25 competitive games of the diamond formation then the players should understand the requirements. That the system is fragile when under pressure says to me they dont fully understand it and that they are not fully equipped to play it. They dont have the confidence to play the ball quickly & take a risk. Yes we have had a few good results but we have ridden our luck in getting them. After Saturday, despite one of the best first halves we have had this season, I am more concerned than I was

Me too.

i just keep thinking relegation. This team just seems to have it rubber stamped all over it. 2 wins in 13, letting late goals in, playing inexperienced kids, small squad, scoring at less than a goal a game.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 24, 2011

Questions - if we agree that to make the diamond work we need speed of movement and thought, and we agree we dont have that - then is the diamond formation actually the one that best fits the players we have ? Sure we could bring in quick players but we wont so given what we know we have is it the formation to use and is AT's reluctance to do something else a big weakness?. Is the whole squad a square peg in a round hole - is AT making the players fit a system rather than the system fit the players he has ?

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
Questions - if we agree that to make the diamond work we need speed of movement and thought, and we agree we dont have that - then is the diamond formation actually the one that best fits the players we have ? Sure we could bring in quick players but we wont so given what we know we have is it the formation to use and is AT's reluctance to do something else a big weakness?. Is the whole squad a square peg in a round hole - is AT making the players fit a system rather than the system fit the players he has ?

That’s my major concern. The diamond don’t suit our players. Look at Bell Saturday, he played at the tip of it and was un-influential. He had no strikes at goal and created very little.

All our goals of late have come from crosses. So with that in mind, i'd like us to switch to a 3-5-2 formation.

Keogh, Wood and Cameron at back. Hussey and Christie as wing backs. Thomas, Clingan and Deegan in the middle with Juke and Cody. Much more balance.

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2011

Mumford and Daughter said:
That’s my major concern. The diamond don’t suit our players. Look at Bell Saturday, he played at the tip of it and was un-influential. He had no strikes at goal and created very little.

All our goals of late have come from crosses. So with that in mind, i'd like us to switch to a 3-5-2 formation.

Keogh, Wood and Cameron at back. Hussey and Christie as wing backs. Thomas, Clingan and Deegan in the middle with Juke and Cody. Much more balance.

Like I said on another threat that's worth a try, but as we're struggling to score goals, is playing with an extra defender a bit negative? Especially if the opposition push their wide players forward to press our two wingbacks backward. Just a thought

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Oct 24, 2011

A midfield 5 of Hussey, Thomas, Clingan, Deegan and Christie has a defensive feel to it, though. True, Hussey and Christie both push on and you are not asking anyone to do anything that they are not comfortable with. But you are banking on MaccyDs and Jukebox to make their own chances, in effect. There is no real link between midfield and the front two... if we don't see much of the ball, they are completely isolated.

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Oct 24, 2011

And I know that Bell / McSheffrey / Baker at the tip of a diamond is rarely the answer. I can just see your five across the middle meaning our front two would be cut adrift in a fair proportion of fixtures.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

stupot07 said:
Like I said on another threat that's worth a try, but as we're struggling to score goals, is playing with an extra defender a bit negative? Especially if the opposition push their wide players forward to press our two wingbacks backward. Just a thought

I know what you mean and could be seen like that but I just feel be more balance and it means bell won't get in the team. Jokes aside Saturday was an example where we play tidy football but no end product, we look dangerous when hussey and Christe whip the ball in.

Mumford and Daughter · Oct 24, 2011

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe said:
A midfield 5 of Hussey, Thomas, Clingan, Deegan and Christie has a defensive feel to it, though. True, Hussey and Christie both push on and you are not asking anyone to do anything that they are not comfortable with. But you are banking on MaccyDs and Jukebox to make their own chances, in effect. There is no real link between midfield and the front two... if we don't see much of the ball, they are completely isolated.

I can see where your coming from so maybe take Thomas out put baker or mcsheffrey in and give one of them some freedom to roam. just a different option

davebart · Oct 24, 2011

I have not seen CCFC this season but my impression is that the team is playing with more freedom than under the last three or four regimes despite being by far the weakest in terms of quality. The reality is that we have been scraping along the bottom for several seasons and the only way we will avoid relegation this season is to have a top quality goalscorer. Last season we had King - you cannot lose a player like that and expect it to have no impact.

I think Cody was a good signing and am prepared to give him time to gel.

Thorn has to work with what he's got - and so would any other manager who came in. Personally I prefer his comments on Saturday to anything that came out of Boothroyd or Coleman's mouths. Bigi gets paid more than I do and anyone who does that can take the stick as well as the praise.

Grendel · Oct 24, 2011

davebart said:
I have not seen CCFC this season but my impression is that the team is playing with more freedom than under the last three or four regimes despite being by far the weakest in terms of quality. The reality is that we have been scraping along the bottom for several seasons and the only way we will avoid relegation this season is to have a top quality goalscorer. Last season we had King - you cannot lose a player like that and expect it to have no impact.

I think Cody was a good signing and am prepared to give him time to gel.

Thorn has to work with what he's got - and so would any other manager who came in. Personally I prefer his comments on Saturday to anything that came out of Boothroyd or Coleman's mouths. Bigi gets paid more than I do and anyone who does that can take the stick as well as the praise.

Well I don't miss many games and my view is this is as boring a style of football I have seen. Sterile sideways passing, no width crosses or shots.

Dull, dull, dull.

Thorn Post Match Interview (1 Viewer)

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