Thorn (11 Viewers)

Otis · Mar 24, 2012

I think the key has been the new players. Not even the fact that they are necessarily better, but the fact they fit better into our system. Really liked Juke but his inclusion left us all disjointed and the systems failed because of it.

The new players have pace and suit our systems so much better.

Thorn has cut out his own silly mistakes to a degree too and that can only be a good thing.

More pace, players more suited to the way we want to play and a manager learning from his mistakes. This has coincided with our improvement in form.

Paxman II · Mar 24, 2012

the Juke always came in for criticism from me because for all his seeming ability he can't hit a barn door. At Boro' it's the same story....maybe they should have had Nimely back and save a lot of money?!

AFCCOVENTRY · Mar 24, 2012

As much as i agree he has done well recently, the only issue I have (but i would rather debate this once the season is over)... but why has Thorn not given the players the same belief all season long?

The flipside is why the players haven't given their all until the end really is near?

@richh87 · Mar 24, 2012

kduffy said:
Gosh some humor that's more like it.

I have actually said if we stay up he should be offered a new contract as that is job done.

I'm shocked if that's true - because you usually twist everything possible to make the guy look bad. Pretending that all of the youngsters he's had to blood were ready for Championship football and that he is somehow failing us all being the main theme.

@richh87 · Mar 24, 2012

CCFC said:
Any criticism Thorn and the team came in before Christmas was 100% justified, no doubt since Christmas we have improved 10 fold and credit for the turnaround has to go to Thorn and the players. We are making a right good go of it now but we wouldn't be in this position if the players and management team had turned up before Christmas.

Yes - his ripped apart squad replaced with kids fresh from the academy should have done much better. :facepalm:

Macca · Mar 24, 2012

@richh87 said:
Yes - his ripped apart squad replaced with kids fresh from the academy should have done much better. :facepalm:

If any of these kids can t handle championship "football" they need to reconsider their career choice

@richh87 · Mar 24, 2012

Otis said:
I think the key has been the new players. Not even the fact that they are necessarily better, but the fact they fit better into our system. Really liked Juke but his inclusion left us all disjointed and the systems failed because of it.

The new players have pace and suit our systems so much better.

Thorn has cut out his own silly mistakes to a degree too and that can only be a good thing.

More pace, players more suited to the way we want to play and a manager learning from his mistakes. This has coincided with our improvement in form.

You do know that Thorn got these loans in don't you? You make it sound like some sort of fluke / coincidence.

Otis · Mar 24, 2012

To be fair to him, Thorn did a pretty good jon himself of making himself look bad earlier in the season.

@richh87 · Mar 24, 2012

Macca said:
If any of these kids can t handle championship "football" they need to reconsider their career choice

And if they can't handle International football does the same apply genius?

Otis · Mar 24, 2012

@richh87 said:
You do know that Thorn got these loans in don't you? You make it sound like some sort of fluke / coincidence.

Why on earth would you think that? What on earth have I said in my post that alludes to it being anything like a fluke?

Stunned that you would think that.

@richh87 · Mar 24, 2012

Otis said:
Why on earth would you think that? What on earth have I said in my post that alludes to it being anything like a fluke?

Stunned that you would think that.

So you think they were great moves by Thorn - that's great.

So glad to hear so many fans singing Andy Thorn's name today. Really gave me hope for the intelligence and fairness of City's support.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 24, 2012

@richh87 said:
Yes - his ripped apart squad replaced with kids fresh from the academy should have done much better. :facepalm:

Not much better, just better
13 points from 23 games or what ever it was was just criminal and not good enough.

Macca · Mar 24, 2012

@richh87 said:
And if they can't handle International football does the same apply genius?

You need to try respectful debate fella. But if you want to be insulting you need to pull off a better response than that nonsensical garbage

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 24, 2012

Macca said:
If any of these kids can t handle championship "football" they need to reconsider their career choice

Unfair comment, lets take Norwood and Nimely as an example, can't handle premiership at the moment doesn't mean they will never become a premiership player and should give up.

Otis · Mar 24, 2012

Really don't get all this at all, Rich. The vast majority of reasoned City supporters simply see it as it is. Today Thorn gets praise. He got it right. When he gets it right he receieves praise. If he makes a mistake then his decisions are questioned.

I would say most City fans ARE fair. I know I always try to be. Very happy that he changed things at half-time and brought Bigi on.

I would guess Nimely and Norwood were Thorn's choices. Don't suppose any of us will know for sure. Whether they were his choices or whether they were the only players he could get. No criticism of Thorn intended, just that we don't know the ins and the outs. We do know he was chasing other players and those deals fell through.

rob9872 · Mar 24, 2012

CCFC said:
Not much better, just better
13 points from 23 games or what ever it was was just criminal and not good enough.

It was but he was as raw as they were. He believed in them and is now bearing the fruit as we hopefully all will next season. He made plenty of mistakes but if he has learnt from them (as you often do through adversity) then he will be better for it too.

Otis · Mar 24, 2012

We need to put this to bed.

Surely we ALL want him to succeed. He's Coventry City's manager. If he does well the City do well. We all want him to be a success.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 24, 2012

Otis said:
Really don't get all this at all, Rich. The vast majority of reasoned City supporters simply see it as it is. Today Thorn gets praise. He got it right. When he gets it right he receieves praise. If he makes a mistake then his decisions are questioned.

I would say most City fans ARE fair. I know I always try to be. Very happy that he changed things at half-time and brought Bigi on.

I would guess Nimely and Norwood were Thorn's choices. Don't suppose any of us will know for sure. Whether they were his choices or whether they were the only players he could get. No criticism of Thorn intended, just that we don't know the ins and the outs. We do know he was chasing other players and those deals fell through.

My memory is hazy but I seem to remember Thorn saying Alex is a player he has liked and been looking at for a while, we also know he turned down loan players coming in as they wouldn't have improved the squad in Thorns opinion so I think they were ultimately his choices as the best he could get on the available budget.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 24, 2012

The AT debates needed putting to bed months ago Otis. Unfortunately, 'You're chatting complete shit if you criticise Thorn' from certain posters prevents that. Everybody knows what everyone else's views are on it so reviving the same tired argument results in no change from anyone-leaving it till relegation/survival has been confirmed would be nice.

Macca · Mar 24, 2012

CCFC said:
Unfair comment, lets take Norwood and Nimely as an example, can't handle premiership at the moment doesn't mean they will never become a premiership player and should give up.

Have you lot been smoking crack cos I can t remember mentioning the premiership. This rich keeps going on how these youngsters can t handle the championship. I think they can. It is a piss piss poor league and if you can t handle this poor level of football you are going to struggle. Like I say it's dicky who says they can t handle it, I think they can

Otis · Mar 24, 2012

CCFC said:
My memory is hazy but I seem to remember Thorn saying Alex is a player he has liked and been looking at for a while, we also know he turned down loan players coming in as they wouldn't have improved the squad in Thorns opinion so I think they were ultimately his choices as the best he could get on the available budget.

Fair enough. Wasn't trying to take any credit away from Thorn. If he brought them in then of course he should be praised for doing so.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 24, 2012

Macca said:
Have you lot been smoking crack cos I can t remember mentioning the premiership. This rich keeps going on how these youngsters can t handle the championship. I think they can. It is a piss piss poor league and if you can t handle this poor level of football you are going to struggle. Like I say it's dicky who says they can t handle it, I think they can

That is why I said example, no I haven't been smoking crack, maybe you need to take your own advice

You need to try respectful debate fella. But if you want to be insulting you need to pull off a better response than that nonsensical garbage

Players like Christie, Gael and Thomas have played too much championship football than they were ready for imo as shown by big dips in form for all 3 at various times of the season, they all have potential to play at this level and possible higher in the future so no they should not reconsider their career choices.

stupot07 · Mar 24, 2012

Macca said:
If any of these kids can t handle championship "football" they need to reconsider their career choice

Why? Players peak at different rates, just because someone struggles at championship level at the age of 17/18 doesn't mean that they won't have a decent career. If they still struggle at 22 then they probably won't make it. By what you've said you'd have probably written turner off at 18.

BurbageSkyBlues · Mar 24, 2012

It takes time for players to gel, and time for managers to gain experience, as well as to work out who plays well together.

It also takes patience from supporters, to give them that time.

dadgad · Mar 24, 2012

Otis said:
We need to put this to bed.

Surely we ALL want him to succeed. He's Coventry City's manager. If he does well the City do well. We all want him to be a success.

Yes, of course, but to succeed he had to learn his trade. To do that he's required the experience. Morons expected him to be infallible because he had "manager" on his door. We all know this is his first managerial job ffs.....one he got purely through circumstances.
I actually think he's better than any of our last 3 managers and certainly, as recent results and performances testify, the players are playing for him.

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

Calm down everyone

AT has not deserved the flack he has got most of this season. It was as though he was the only manager making mistakes. Inexperienced manager, inexperienced squad. Now he has us playing better and getting results he does not need praise all the time. AT will do crap without the players doing their bit. The players will do crap without AT doing his bit. It is a team thing.

Jack Griffin · Mar 25, 2012

stupot07 said:
Why? Players peak at different rates, just because someone struggles at championship level at the age of 17/18 doesn't mean that they won't have a decent career. If they still struggle at 22 then they probably won't make it. By what you've said you'd have probably written turner off at 18.

Ha Ha, there were plenty on here writing him off in his penultimate season for us. Don't you remember the constant 'Turner is slow' shit some people spouted. On the other hand a lot of people used to praise Colin Hawkins because he could head a ball, now he was slow and to boot not great at positional play, which is why he only got a half dozen games a season while he was with us & saw out the remainder of his career in lower league & irish football.

@richh87 · Mar 25, 2012

Macca said:
You need to try respectful debate fella. But if you want to be insulting you need to pull off a better response than that nonsensical garbage

You need to make sensible points when having a pop at a manager who has us playing entertaining football, fielding an inexperienced side, with both hands tied behind his back and looking like he'll keep us up against the odds.

Now, please clarify the ludicrous comment that all academy players should automatically be ready for Championship football. Do you have any idea how much of a step up in class it is? Mentally it is tough for a kid to go from playing front of one man and his dog to having a stadium full of people demanding he put in a flawless performance. Playing against experienced pros who know every trick in the book, not to mention the physical aspect with these kids not having finished growing.

It is literally men against boys.

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
Calm down everyone

AT has not deserved the flack he has got most of this season. It was as though he was the only manager making mistakes. Inexperienced manager, inexperienced squad. Now he has us playing better and getting results he does not need praise all the time. AT will do crap without the players doing their bit. The players will do crap without AT doing his bit. It is a team thing.

But the whole point Astute ..... and this has been brought up dozens and dozens of times ....... with this squad and this inexperience in young players and this lack of money, what we didn't need was an inexperienced manager at the helm.

We all thought it was going to be tough season and we would be in the bottom half of the table and more than likely in a relegation scrap anyway, so people quite rightly were asking, could we afford a novice at the helm making many mistakes and some of them big mistakes as he was "learning his trade?"

This has always been the argument. Just astonishes me that you have posters on here saying "But to succeed he had to learn his trade. To do that he's required the experience."

To have a novice manager at the helm, learning his trade, surely you would only do so at a club where you felt that we were more than capable of holding your own in this division and finishing midtable!

If you think you are going to struggle then the last thing you need for a season of struggle is an inexperienced man holding the reins.

Surely everyone can understand that stance by so many of us? And also, as has been alluded to on many occasions, some of the mistakes he made at the start of the season were whoppers. All managers make mistakes ...... they do have some idea of how the opposition are going to play though and the tactics the opposition might deploy.

Macca · Mar 25, 2012

@richh87 said:
You need to make sensible points when having a pop at a manager who has us playing entertaining football, fielding an inexperienced side, with both hands tied behind his back and looking like he'll keep us up against the odds.

Now, please clarify the ludicrous comment that all academy players should automatically be ready for Championship football. Do you have any idea how much of a step up in class it is? Mentally it is tough for a kid to go from playing front of one man and his dog to having a stadium full of people demanding he put in a flawless performance. Playing against experienced pros who know every trick in the book, not to mention the physical aspect with these kids not having finished growing.

It is literally men against boys.

Fair enough, tell me which one of these boys deserves the most criticism in your eyes? I think they ve done pretty well. Imagine when they get to 21 and their voices break.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2012

Macca said:
Fair enough, tell me which one of these boys deserves the most criticism in your eyes? I think they ve done pretty well. Imagine when they get to 21 and their voices break.

Rich along with many others on here have been extremely critical of Jordan Clarke. I for one have been mystified by this as last season he came in and did well. His return to fitness has assisted the balance of the team.
Christie has been over used. The rest of the young players are not academy except bigiamara as they have enough games to be judged on suitability. In my view they clearly are suitable and better than the likes of bell Mcpake and for the majority of the time here baker.
The truth is some people say anything other than criticize the manager even if that means rubbishing the players at his disposal.
His job is to avoid relegation. If that is achieved he would deserve another year. I still would have reservations but if goals are achieved than fair is fair. However to say he is performing miracles is nonsense we are where we are because of the first half of the season when we were shocking.0

@richh87 · Mar 25, 2012

Macca said:
Fair enough, tell me which one of these boys deserves the most criticism in your eyes? I think they ve done pretty well. Imagine when they get to 21 and their voices break.

See, you're not taking it seriously. You simply don't get it. You think Beckham was running the show for Man Utd when he was 18? Er no, he was on loan at Preston.

You need to physically and mentally develop. Now these kids have got talent - which is great, but the other aspects are more important. Many youngsters have talent and then fall away into obscurity. I'm sure people thought Francis Jeffers was the real deal.

These kids have a great future - but to put so many into a squad at once is very risky. This Is likely to affect the team in more ways than simply an own goal or other massive cock-up; there will be less leadership, less confidence when things go wrong. Poorer communication.More likely to get intimidated by occasions HENCE THE AWAY FORM.

Ever heard the term schoolboy error? It's famous for a reason.

Thankfully we have a Manager who has acted like a father figure to these youngsters and the players seem to love Andy Thorn - that should not be underestimated. This is the reason that a squad devoid of the best players who made us come 17th - 20th is still somehow maintaining the fight against relegation.

Do you remember the football under Boothroyd? Ugly AND he lost the dressing room. Before you people have the nerve to slate Thorn - just take some time out to imagine where Boothroyd would have this team. Not to mention Thorn hasn't had money like our other managers.

Yes he'll make mistakes but he is learning fast. Alex Ferguson still makes mistakes - they're all human.

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

No coincidence that we are doing better since Thorn stopped making the big mistakes.

If we go down it seems quite obvious that many people on here are going to look back on that period and very much include that in one of the factors as to why we will have been relegated.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2012

We only have 2 schoolboys by your term bigiamara and Christie. Clark and Cameron have as much experience at this level as McDonald.

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

@richh87 said:
See, you're not taking it seriously. You simply don't get it. You think Beckham was running the show for Man Utd when he was 18? Er no, he was on loan at Preston.

You need to physically and mentally develop. Now these kids have got talent - which is great, but the other aspects are more important. Many youngsters have talent and then fall away into obscurity. I'm sure people thought Francis Jeffers was the real deal.

These kids have a great future - but to put so many into a squad at once is very risky. This Is likely to affect the team in more ways than simply an own goal or other massive cock-up; there will be less leadership, less confidence when things go wrong. Poorer communication.More likely to get intimidated by occasions HENCE THE AWAY FORM.

Ever heard the term schoolboy error? It's famous for a reason.

Thankfully we have a Manager who has acted like a father figure to these youngsters and the players seem to love Andy Thorn - that should not be underestimated. This is the reason that a squad devoid of the best players who made us come 17th - 20th is still somehow maintaining the fight against relegation.

Do you remember the football under Boothroyd? Ugly AND he lost the dressing room. Before you people have the nerve to slate Thorn - just take some time out to imagine where Boothroyd would have this team. Not to mention Thorn hasn't had money like our other managers.

Yes he'll make mistakes but he is learning fast. Alex Ferguson still makes mistakes - they're all human.

Alex Ferguson studies how the opposition are going to play though doesn't he.

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