Thorn (6 Viewers)

@richh87 · Mar 25, 2012

I was very critical of Jordan Clarke after he had a shocker positionally at Forest - due to inexperience.

Since then he's got better and better and is proving me wrong. I favoured Christie due to his pace - but now i'm not sure who i'd go with.

The way these kids have been brought through Is extremely impressive.

@richh87 · Mar 25, 2012

Otis said:
Alex Ferguson studies how the opposition are going to play though doesn't he.

Where Is your proof that Thorn doesn't?

This is getting silly.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2012

@richh87 said:
Where Is your proof that Thorn doesn't?

This is getting silly.

Coming from you that really is silly. As silly as mantling ferguson and thorn in the same thread.

torchomatic · Mar 25, 2012

Amazing really, that even after a great win, three unbeaten games in a week, there's still arguments over the manager.

stupot07 · Mar 25, 2012

@richh87 said:
I was very critical of Jordan Clarke after he had a shocker positionally at Forest - due to inexperience.

Since then he's got better and better and is proving me wrong. I favoured Christie due to his pace - but now i'm not sure who i'd go with.

The way these kids have been brought through Is extremely impressive.

Clarke was playing out of position against forest. There's no coincidence that he has vastly improved since moving to his natural right back position.

Not sure if you're referring to the Mccleary goal.

Personally I think Clarke is a better player than Christie.

torchomatic · Mar 25, 2012

I've never really rated Clarke, but I must say he's shut me up over the last few games. He's really doing well. Good on him.

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

Otis said:
But the whole point Astute ..... and this has been brought up dozens and dozens of times ....... with this squad and this inexperience in young players and this lack of money, what we didn't need was an inexperienced manager at the helm.

We all thought it was going to be tough season and we would be in the bottom half of the table and more than likely in a relegation scrap anyway, so people quite rightly were asking, could we afford a novice at the helm making many mistakes and some of them big mistakes as he was "learning his trade?"

This has always been the argument. Just astonishes me that you have posters on here saying "But to succeed he had to learn his trade. To do that he's required the experience."

To have a novice manager at the helm, learning his trade, surely you would only do so at a club where you felt that we were more than capable of holding your own in this division and finishing midtable!

If you think you are going to struggle then the last thing you need for a season of struggle is an inexperienced man holding the reins.

Surely everyone can understand that stance by so many of us? And also, as has been alluded to on many occasions, some of the mistakes he made at the start of the season were whoppers. All managers make mistakes ...... they do have some idea of how the opposition are going to play though and the tactics the opposition might deploy.

Having an experienced manager can help, but ot does not mean your team will succeed. Did we have better players last season and an experienced manager that had got promotion from this division? Was he backed by SISU? He was even allowed to give King a 10k a week contract. How did he do?

How many other experienced managers have we had that have failed to get us out of this division? Do you remember us winning the cup in 87? Did we have an experienced manager? Forest have some good players and a strong squad. They have spent a fair bit of cash. how experienced have their managers been?
AT was one of the crazy gang. I have always thought this experience will do us good. He is very knowledgable of the game. Yes it would have been better to have an experienced manager, but it don't mean everything. Ask Fester fans how Sven did with the 10m plus. How experienced do you want?

I really hope we keep AT after thiis season. He now has experience. He seems to be a good motivator, although some can't see it with his post match interviews

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 25, 2012

It's the repeated insinuation that Thorn carries absolutely no flaws whatsoever that irritates most people, and when it's combined with superlative after superlative about the constraints he is under, it borders on cultish obsession.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It's the repeated insinuation that Thorn carries absolutely no flaws whatsoever that irritates most people, and when it's combined with superlative after superlative about the constraints he is under, it borders on cultish obsession.

100% correct.

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

@richh87 said:
Where Is your proof that Thorn doesn't?

This is getting silly.

You are making it silly, Rich.

Don't want to go over this all again. Blackpool at home. Thorn had no idea how they were going to play. Don't want to have to go over this all over again. :facepalm:

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
Having an experienced manager can help, but ot does not mean your team will succeed. Did we have better players last season and an experienced manager that had got promotion from this division? Was he backed by SISU? He was even allowed to give King a 10k a week contract. How did he do?

How many other experienced managers have we had that have failed to get us out of this division? Do you remember us winning the cup in 87? Did we have an experienced manager? Forest have some good players and a strong squad. They have spent a fair bit of cash. how experienced have their managers been?
AT was one of the crazy gang. I have always thought this experience will do us good. He is very knowledgable of the game. Yes it would have been better to have an experienced manager, but it don't mean everything. Ask Fester fans how Sven did with the 10m plus. How experienced do you want?

I really hope we keep AT after thiis season. He now has experience. He seems to be a good motivator, although some can't see it with his post match interviews

A lot of what you say is right. You do have a better chance though with an expereinced manager at the helm than one with no experience.

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It's the repeated insinuation that Thorn carries absolutely no flaws whatsoever that irritates most people, and when it's combined with superlative after superlative about the constraints he is under, it borders on cultish obsession.

I have never seen a post saying AT is faultless.

You can lose count each week with comments saying people think AT is faultless.

You can lose count in a day how many people say it is AT's fault we are where we are. Pointing out it is not all the fault of AT is not saying he is faultless.

Grendel · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
I have never seen a post saying AT is faultless.
You can lose count each week with comments saying people think AT is faultless.
You can lose count in a day how many people say it is AT's fault we are where we are. Pointing out it is not all the fault of AT is not saying he is faultless.

Read rich's post the one where sir alex gets a mention.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
I have never seen a post saying AT is faultless.

You can lose count each week with comments saying people think AT is faultless.

You can lose count in a day how many people say it is AT's fault we are where we are. Pointing out it is not all the fault of AT is not saying he is faultless.

I said insinuations Astute. Rich biting your head off at any criticism of the man, even when mixed with praise, I take as him implying that Thorn is beyond fault. Fair or not?

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

kduffy said:
Read rich's post the one where sir alex gets a mention.

Have done. Was said as a fact that AT don't study opponents.

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

Why are we going backwards here and regurgitating the same old thing?

Isn't everyone now saying Thorn IS getting better at the job? Can't we now focus on that.

There is an insinuation from some that no-one could have done any better and that any other manager would have made mistakes too. As I said, some of AT's mistakes were massive. He seems to have learnt from that and fair play to him for that.

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I said insinuations Astute. Rich biting your head off at any criticism of the man, even when mixed with praise, I take as him implying that Thorn is beyond fault. Fair or not?

Praise is not needed all the time, just the same as personal attacks

SydneySkyBlue · Mar 25, 2012

@richh87 said:
See, you're not taking it seriously. You simply don't get it. You think Beckham was running the show for Man Utd when he was 18? Er no, he was on loan at Preston.

You need to physically and mentally develop. Now these kids have got talent - which is great, but the other aspects are more important. Many youngsters have talent and then fall away into obscurity. I'm sure people thought Francis Jeffers was the real deal.

These kids have a great future - but to put so many into a squad at once is very risky. This Is likely to affect the team in more ways than simply an own goal or other massive cock-up; there will be less leadership, less confidence when things go wrong. Poorer communication.More likely to get intimidated by occasions HENCE THE AWAY FORM.

Ever heard the term schoolboy error? It's famous for a reason.

Thankfully we have a Manager who has acted like a father figure to these youngsters and the players seem to love Andy Thorn - that should not be underestimated. This is the reason that a squad devoid of the best players who made us come 17th - 20th is still somehow maintaining the fight against relegation.

Do you remember the football under Boothroyd? Ugly AND he lost the dressing room. Before you people have the nerve to slate Thorn - just take some time out to imagine where Boothroyd would have this team. Not to mention Thorn hasn't had money like our other managers.

Yes he'll make mistakes but he is learning fast. Alex Ferguson still makes mistakes - they're all human.

An exceptional post. That really is all there is to it.

You can talk tactics until the cows come home but our biggest downfall this season been due to inexperience and not being able to handle backs to the wall situations - dropping many points as a consequence.

Spirit and the fact they are playing for the manager has carried them through but I do think the additions of Norwood and Nimely were needed and may just keep us up.

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
An exceptional post. That really is all there is to it.

You can talk tactics until the cows come home but our biggest downfall this season been due to inexperience and not being able to handle backs to the wall situations - dropping many points as a consequence.

Spirit and the fact they are playing for the manager has carried them through but I do think the additions of Norwood and Nimely were needed and may just keep us up.

Will keep us up you mean

Macca · Mar 25, 2012

GinettasStickySofa said:
An exceptional post. That really is all there is to it.

You can talk tactics until the cows come home but our biggest downfall this season been due to inexperience and not being able to handle backs to the wall situations - dropping many points as a consequence.

Spirit and the fact they are playing for the manager has carried them through but I do think the additions of Norwood and Nimely were needed and may just keep us up.

How is a post that had ignored my question, spouted on about Thorn again, and wobbled on about tactics be exceptional????????

Macca · Mar 25, 2012

In addition I think you will find these days that players are ready much earlier. Our players are good enough, sorry of that offends people

blueflint · Mar 25, 2012

we were better than them thats all that matters

Macca · Mar 25, 2012

blueflint said:
we were better than them thats all that matters

Precisely, why people are still moaning after this week I don t know

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
Praise is not needed all the time, just the same as personal attacks

I don't think you'll find a personal attack on him anywhere.

kg82 · Mar 25, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I don't think you'll find a personal attack on him anywhere.

I can name one poster that does - surprisingly, he hasn't been on for a while!

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

The problem we have between ourselves is there was a high percentage of us that thought we would be higher in the table with an experienced manager. Countless times this has been stated as fact. Those that could see it as not being a fact have been labeled as AT sympathisers that can see no wrong with him. Some of these see others taking shots at AT and blaming him for our predicament. The truth is somewhere in the middle. There has been so much crap said on the matter.

Could another manager have done better? Yes

Could another manager have done worse for us? Yes

The only thing that can be stated as a fact is we will never know.

We just need to get this season over with and survive. Then regroup and hope for a better season next season. All we can hope for is the players that have come through this season do not all get sold. There is a chance of this happening.

frodobaggins · Mar 25, 2012

AT doing better than expected. But he's still a better scout than he is a manager.

The CableGuy · Mar 25, 2012

Ha, I didn't think me posting Thorn's post-match comments would result in a 10-page thread within 24 hours.

All I'll add is, we won a must-win, and:

Inexperienced Manager in making mistakes shocker. News at Eleven.

Otis · Mar 25, 2012

I think it is more 'inexperienced manager was making big mistakes, but is now getting to grips with the job.'

Just crossing my fingers that none of those early season mistakes come back to haunt us if we were to go down and reflect on games where it could have been different.

wingy · Mar 25, 2012

As this appears to be our season in reverse and we take 12-13 more points ,which i envisage,he will keep us up and have performed better or as well as all the others before ,without the dire product on the pitch of the previous two,at this point we are three points worse off than when he took over a year ago ,having played two more , those two were wins so deficit of nine points with seven to play ,i see every reason for optimism that our form will continue , 3-4 more wins with one ro two draws should do it as Goal difference is worth a point ,its possible to do with three defeats if all other results positive

dadgad · Mar 25, 2012

Otis said:
He seems to have learnt from that and fair play to him for that.

More or less then you are agreeing that "you cannot learn without experience". The key thing is that he stuck around long enough for the benefits of his experience to kick in. This fact coupled with a bit of siege mentality is exactly why we are seeing an upturn in form.
Thorn got the job because he was the cheapest option but he has the respect of the players and, incidentally, just about everyone WITHIN the game, opposing managers and the like.
It is high time everyone admitted that Thorn is, all things considered, the best man for the job.

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

dadgad said:
More or less then you are agreeing that "you cannot learn without experience". The key thing is that he stuck around long enough for the benefits of his experience to kick in. This fact coupled with a bit of siege mentality is exactly why we are seeing an upturn in form.
Thorn got the job because he was the cheapest option but he has the respect of the players and, incidentally, just about everyone WITHIN the game, opposing managers and the like.
It is high time everyone admitted that Thorn is, all things considered, the best man for the job.

Get ready with your crash helmet. You are going to be a WUM, AT lover who can't see any of his faults and many more ;-)

dadgad · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
Get ready with your crash helmet. You are going to be a WUM, AT lover who can't see any of his faults and many more ;-)

Haha, more than capable of dealing with the moronic negativity, after all, like Thorn, I've stuck to my guns.:wave:

Astute · Mar 25, 2012

So have I. The only time I have ever doubted him as being the right man for our predicament was xmas time

Macca · Mar 25, 2012

Astute said:
Get ready with your crash helmet. You are going to be a WUM, AT lover who can't see any of his faults and many more ;-)

So anyone who doesn't 100 percent agree with you is incapable of rational reply? I might not be in this chaps camp but I think his post was a good one and worthy of thought

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