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Wouldn't the council have to give this the all clear. I can imagine our council doing a lot of dumb things but even they must have clauses in the lease to stop Wasps selling things on to third parties. Imagine if they break it up and sell chunks off to different people and then go bust or move elsewhere. The council aren't going to risk having to clear that mess up.I've heard a slightly less optimistic version that they are looking at options for potentially selling parts of the business to raise short term cash. Not sure if this is to offset against the debt or to go towards any improvement projects, I'd guess the former but it could as easily be the latter baring in mind the debt isn't repayable until 2022? Is that right?
They’re difficult to get hold of. Wonder why...Anyone know where you can see the wasps attendance figures?
It was actually 15,401 according to the official Premiership rugby site. The Cov Telegraph on their match report have it as 15,410. Wasps trying to inflate their attendances by 9 hoping no one will notice, crafty buggers.15,400 for yesterday according to the CT.
I compared the game to last season. Wasps vs Gloucester was 26k+ that was on the 23rd dec. This time last year they played bath and the attendance was 15488. It’s falling but not at an alarming rate.It was actually 15,401 according to the official Premiership rugby site. The Cov Telegraph on their match report have it as 15,410. Wasps trying to inflate their attendances by 9 hoping no one will notice, crafty buggers.
So we have 3 different figures.
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26k to 16k is pretty alarming!I compared the game to last season. Wasps vs Gloucester was 26k+ that was on the 23rd dec. This time last year they played bath and the attendance was 15488. It’s falling but not at an alarming rate.
. It depends on how you look at it. From a commercial view they would compare the attendance year vs year. So that’s a loss of around 80. I know that year on year they are up against last year. However last year there was no big derby game so the figures look better than what there are. I think the attendance will be down on last year snd will continue dropping.26k to 16k is pretty alarming![/QUOTE
Fair point but they're relying on growing revenue, yes they're not as reliant on attendances as CCFC but the fact they're flat lining at best is not good news for Wasps. It depends on how you look at it. From a commercial view they would compare the attendance year vs year. So that’s a loss of around 80. I know that year on year they are up against last year. However last year there was no big derby game so the figures look better than what there are. I think the attendance will be down on last year snd will continue dropping.
FYI cumulative totals for all the Aviva clubs.Anyone know where you can see the wasps attendance figures?
Thanks for the overview. Based on that summary the life support machine is officially well and truly switched on.Make of this what you will. Just compared Saracens & Wasps 2017 figures.
Saracens
Ground capacity 10,000
Ave Attendance 9,400 (total Aviva attendances 2017-18 210,069)
Rugby related income £12.5m
Non Rugby Income £5.3m
Total wages £11.4m
Total staff 155
total players 55
Interest charges £20k
Loss for year £2.7m
Cashflow for year minus (£600K)
Senior debt £48m
Wasps
Ground capacity 32609
Ave Attendance 19338 (total Aviva attendances 2017-18 194,046)
Rugby related income £16.1m
Non Rugby Income £17.3m
Total wages £17m
Total staff 206
total players 53
Interest charges £2.3m
Loss for year £3.8m
Cashflow for year minus (£1.1m)
Senior debt £48m
- wage costs are for the total operation of each company
What I take from that and given that Saracens are arguably the best team in the country, have a long term base etc, is.......
- Rugby in general finds it hard to finance itself
- wage costs are an obvious major problem for all clubs
- that even with a much smaller capacity (and presumably few free tickets) Saracens still generate £12.5m Rugby related income (think about the maths of that and apply same to Wasps)
- other sources of income away from Rugby are vital
- similar senior debt figures but Saracens benefit from not paying interest - still made 2.7m loss though
cant help thinking too many people focus on the free tickets so Wasps must be really in trouble conjecture....... the actual published figures do not point to massive problem for them in free ticket giveaways, in fact the assertion that it is all free tickets doesn't seem to be supported at all other than anecdotally. There has to be a sizeable number, or large percentage, of people paying. Otherwise where do they get the revenue declared from? Yes they have problems.....Cash flow in total yes, interest burden yes, wage costs yes.......
Thanks for the overview. Based on that summary the life support machine is officially well and truly switched on.
Wonder what will happen when at some point in the future they get a new owner. For other rugby clubs that had moved from the capital it has been the signal for them to return.Most teams rely on the goodwill of creditors, investors and owners including Wasps
but in the scheme of things so far, it doesn't seem to be any more so than for most sports teams (outside the Premier League) so it doesn't raise further any particular hope in my opinion of it all benefiting CCFC or CRFC. Most teams rely on the goodwill of creditors, investors and owners including Wasps, CCFC & CRFC (the financials of all three are weak & vulnerable) most sports teams struggle with increasing wage costs and insufficient income...... and that is what is going on here.
Do most teams raise finance on the retail bond market?
Wonder what will happen when at some point in the future they get a new owner. For other rugby clubs that had moved from the capital it has been the signal for them to return.
No but most teams raise finance ........... whether it be owner loans (secured or not), loans from private equity funds, bank loans, other forms of loans or retail bonds ............ the bottom line is that they all appear as liabilities on the balance sheet and are all legally due for repayment
I'm sure I've asked this before (and I can't be bothered to check) but why would someone like Wasps have chosen to raise capital via retail bonds as opposed to arranging a commercial mortgage against the stadium, which would have almost certainly offered lower interest rates? Would it be likely that banks/finance houses weren't interested and they had to turn to bonds as a second choice, or is there other rationale behind the decision?
should imagine it had something to do with not having to make monthly payments of around £450k per month to clear £35m over 7 years even at a low 2.5% interest rate. To match the current interest payment alone even getting a mortgage at 2.5% would take 18 years to repay.............. and when they floated the bond the level of risk was reasonably high (it hasnt got any lower - arguably its higher after the last audit). Spread the risk amongst lots of people some of whom were fans can make sense, and they didnt have the monthly cash flow and still dont
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