Tim Fisher (4 Viewers)

[Grendel]

The question you asked was when did I last ATTEND a game, Dullard. Yesterday. Now piss off

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So who was playing Tim? I think it's perfectly legitimate to question your association with ccfc and ask which last ccfc game you attended.

You suggest you went to a game yesterday. So, who did you see yesterday Tim?

Are you Tim or did you decide to name fisher and the year sisu purchased the club together?

All questions that require answers.

You do, Tim, seem to suggest things about fishers personal life, matrimonial status etc. Which all suggests some inside knowledge

Who are you "Tim"? What is your game on here?

 

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[Rob S]

I've pointed that out several times & Rob S and others keep making out CCFC is in a stronger position than Wasps, its an absurd proposition, CCFC are deep in the shit, Wasps have a shortfall and need to ramp up turnover but they seem to have realistic plans on which they're making progress.

SISU need to worry about their own finances, last financial year CCFC posted losses that were equivalent to 40% of turnover.

I certainly haven't intended to make out that CCFC are in a strong position...far from it. I was just pointing out one of the possible reasons behind the current CT-led campaign: increasing the value of the stadium by having a long-term tenant.

 

[Nick]

The ct.clearly aren't doing it for the fans

 

[Rob S]

I do not see how the club can even think about a new stadium. The owners have lost gazillions and will lose more if they stay on, building a new ground will make things worse. Just sign a reasonable libg term rent deal at the ricoh on the best terms possible and sut tight to see what develops. If Wasps do go tits up then we could acquire the ricoh or a big slab of it for a fraction of the cost of a new stadium.

Well, the obvious point there is that Wasps are more likely to go tits up if we don't sign a long-term deal.

 

[Kingokings204]

Rob, you are a genuine guy and I follow you on twitter but some things you say don't add up. Sisu haven't put a penny in since 2014. Over 2 years now. There is no money. A new stadium is la la land and the butts even more so. It Simply doesn't work.

We need new owners who are willing to invest in the team and our future and to ask for anything more than £1 isn't going to happen. It's worth £1 and NOPM (see what I did there)

This is why people see NOPM as getting sisu out. If the club is losing more income then losses are greater and then they have to call it a day sooner. Not saying I agree with it just saying what the mentality is to it. It's to starve them out. They talk money as you said think like the enemy.

 

[Rob S]

So the SCG have left the squirrel and now have meetings on the Coventry to Euston train,
Where can I find the minutes, oh and Rob say hello to that Strange fucker for me.

For anyone who's been involved with CCLSC in the last few years, this is funny :clown:

(BTW, it was Stoke-on-Trent to Euston )

 

[Kingokings204]

Well, the obvious point there is that Wasps are more likely to go tits up if we don't sign a long-term deal.

But with your theory of a new stadium and developing butts etc then if wasps do go tits up in 10 years time then we have built a new stadium for us anyway.

 

[oucho]

But with your theory of a new stadium and developing butts etc then if wasps do go tits up in 10 years time then we have built a new stadium for us anyway.

My point exactly.

 

[tim07]

So who was playing Tim? I think it's perfectly legitimate to question your association with ccfc and ask which last ccfc game you attended.

You suggest you went to a game yesterday. So, who did you see yesterday Tim?

Are you Tim or did you decide to name fisher and the year sisu purchased the club together?

All questions that require answers.

You do, Tim, seem to suggest things about fishers personal life, matrimonial status etc. Which all suggests some inside knowledge

Who are you "Tim"? What is your game on here?

I'm a long suffering fan Grendullard, struggling to maintain my passion for a club that keeps kicking me in the teeth.

Ive been trying to wake up the sleepwalkers on here to the damage SISU are doing.

Some of these buffoons really think it's all somehow Wasps fault, or Higgs's....or the city council's.

It isn't.

So if I choose to attend a non league game on a Saturday, or a Sunday or any other day, then that's because
i) I'm doing my bit to starve SISU out; or
ii) I'm enjoying it more.
Or both.
All my teams won over the weekend by the way. Even CCFC.

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[MusicDating]

Nice to have a reasoned discussion on here rather than some people just shouting 'LOUD NOISES!'...

My analogy is this. Say you've bought some shares but the price has plummeted. However, you don't need to sell your shares to pay for things, so you keep hold of them in case the price goes back up. You'll only sell when the price goes back to 'x', so you don't listen to people telling you they're only worth tuppence.

The scary thing is, not knowing what SISU will do to try and get the price back up to 'x'. The Ricoh is still the biggest potential cash cow, so will they wait and see how Wasps do with bond repayments/naming rights (maybe years). Maybe building a new stadium would get the price back up to 'x'. Maybe investing in the team to get them promoted? The last two are obvs ridic as that would required additional funding...

I think that's what Rob S was getting at when he said we need to think like them.

 

[Rob S]

Rob, you are a genuine guy and I follow you on twitter but some things you say don't add up.
Sisu haven't put a penny in since 2014. Over 2 years now. There is no money. A new stadium is la la land and the butts even more so. It Simply doesn't work.

We need new owners who are willing to invest in the team and our future and to ask for anything more than £1 isn't going to happen. It's worth £1 and NOPM (see what I did there)

This is why people see NOPM as getting sisu out. If the club is losing more income then losses are greater and then they have to call it a day sooner. Not saying I agree with it just saying what the mentality is to it. It's to starve them out. They talk money as you said think like the enemy.

But with your theory of a new stadium and developing butts etc then if wasps do go tits up in 10 years time then we have built a new stadium for us anyway.

Putting in, or just getting, money for a stadium is a separate issue to putting money into the club. It can be done. I'm not saying it'll be straightforward or successful, but it is a viable option.

As for Wasps going tits up, it's not something anyone would bank on really. (Although it would be funny...I f'in hate seeing that stupid clip art logo all over the Ricoh.) Gotta have a plan B tho'

 

[chiefdave]

Ultimately, if people want #SISUOUT, they've got to engineer their exit strategy. At the moment, as with previous attempts, it just seems to be protest with the hope that somebody else will buy or they'll give up and go. Who's buying? Why on earth would Joy Seppala (or any other businessperson) just hand the club over after having gone this far? Anyone got, and I'm guessing here, £15–25m to chuck in to a club with not-a-lot?

It might not be what people want to hear but if you are going to deal with business people you have to at least try and think like them and understand how they will play their hand.

Absolutely this. Anyone that thinks Joy enjoys owning the club and wants to stick at it is bonkers. Give them a viable exit strategy and they'd be off like a shot.

 

[Kingokings204]

Absolutely this. Anyone that thinks Joy enjoys owning the club and wants to stick at it is bonkers. Give them a viable exit strategy and they'd be off like a shot.

Backs up the other thread AFC has started. Give them a slice of promotion if we get one and some up front money and that's it. Bye bye sisu.

P.s thanks Rob S for replying to my posts.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

tim fisher is an anagram of FIRM SHITE

Why do I feel SICK when I see that name. :spitoutdummy:

 

[Kingokings204]

Why do I feel SICK when I see that name. :spitoutdummy:

Don't you like fish?

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

Don't you like fish?

No I fucking don't. :meh:

 

[georgehudson]

i wonder whether, TF & JS will grace the ricoh with their presence vs n'thampton,
only 1 stand open, whuoa, imho, could be a few with some words for them

 

[Astute]

What I mean is, to put it in more brutal, Sun Tzu-esque terms, if you want to defeat an enemy you need to think like them.:woot:

No way am I moving to Northampton. Not even for 3 weeks.

 

[martcov]

Well, the obvious point there is that Wasps are more likely to go tits up if we don't sign a long-term deal.

I think we are more likely to go tits up first if we don't have security of tenure.

 

[Rob S]

I think we are more likely to go tits up first if we don't have security of tenure.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Gosford Green]

Wasps could do with(slight understatement) the revenue that 30 football games a year bring, the same can be said of the North Coventry area around the Ricoh.

If CCFC go they could in the slipstream. Is there an intermediator that can get both sides talking?

 

[Warwickhunt]

Wasps could do with(slight understatement) the revenue that 30 football games a year bring, the same can be said of the North Coventry area around the Ricoh.

If CCFC go they could in the slipstream. Is there an intermediator that can get both sides talking?

Norman Smurfthwaite the Port Vale chairman could do it! Read the current piece in the CEO what he states make common sense

 

[oucho]

Big problem for me is that nobody who runs the club actually acts as the public face of CCFC...thus, we do not know whether Venus has been appointed permanently or whether we're goign to be recruiting for a new manager.

A CEO who works full-time, based in Cov and with authority to make all key decisions would fix so many problems, and one of the reasons we'd benefit from new owners is that this is a model that SISU do not want to use.

 

[oldskyblue58]

obviously there are risks for Wasps, the other incomes at the stadium will help insulate to some degree I would think.

Waiting for them to go bump whilst telling everyone we are building our own or in a joint venture at BPA is a strange strategy especially if both results materialise. Can CCFC afford that time and just bump along? But then I guess SISU are high risk takers and CCFC is just a tool for them to use.

Wasps
- first revaluation of the 250 year lease was due 30-06-16 then every two years after that. 30 June is the Wasps Holdings year end so I would think the revaluation details will be audited in the usual manner and included in the accounts to be released this month. No great mystery
- what has significantly changed in a year that will materially affect the value of a 250 year lease?
- the first three interest payments are covered by the equivalent sum from the bond issue being put on deposit
- looks like in 2015 accounts 18% of income (including F&B) resulted from people turning up to watch rugby. In region of 3.8m out of 21.4m total turnover. CCFC turnover in total in 2015 4.7m, match receipts 1.8m
- Both ACL and Wasps were paying interest before the bond (combined total £1m approx.) The bond issue replaced those interest bearing loans it is not in addition to
- increased players wages costs yes but also increase in central distributions (central distribution in 2015 was 4.3m)
- does the london rd land development pay for the AHC development?
- I believe Ricoh still pay for their continued sponsorship so its not like they have no stadium sponsors income

Personally expect to see Wasps record further losses this last financial year, but to have improved compared to previous year. We will have to wait see.

To my mind there is no worth to CCFC, the only sticking point is how much ARVO extract from the set up and in what manner. No one is going to pay SISU some of the sums mentioned here. If that is what they might be expecting then they are basically saying we are not ready to go. In which case the fans are in for a lot more misery

 

[chiefdave]

- first revaluation of the 250 year lease was due 30-06-16 then every two years after that. 30 June is the Wasps Holdings year end so I would think the revaluation details will be audited in the usual manner and included in the accounts to be released this month. No great mystery
- what has significantly changed in a year that will materially affect the value of a 250 year lease?

Do you know much about what happened when Wasps nearly went bust as a result of their valuation of Loftus Road proving to be incorrect? All I've read is that they had to repay a lot of money quickly as they had taken loans based on an incorrect valuation and couldn't afford to pay it all back. Is that what is being hinted at by some? That the Ricoh valuation was incorrect and if and when corrected it could trigger a bond repayment they can't pay?

- looks like in 2015 accounts 18% of income (including F&B) resulted from people turning up to watch rugby. In region of 3.8m out of 21.4m total turnover. CCFC turnover in total in 2015 4.7m, match receipts 1.8m

So Wasps F&B was £3.8m and our total turnover was £4.7m, no wonder Fisher keeps banging on about the pie money.

 

[chiefdave]

To my mind there is no worth to CCFC

I would say the 'brand' probably has some value but as you say the club will be sold for the mythical pound, the bigger issue will be what happens to the debt and how much has to be paid out to get rid of that as we definitely don't want new owners coming in still having that to service.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Know nothing about what happened at loftus rd CD. Would hope once bitten twice shy but it might be what they are hinting at. Tend to think certain people are expecting separate public disclosure of the valuation where as I think that will come with disclosure in the audited accounts

The 3.8m was tickets and F&B split 2.6m and 1.2m respectively - someone is paying to get in it would seem

The key has always been the settlement of the loans and it is the ARVO ones that are the important ones

curious that a thread about Fisher ends up discussing Wasps

btw I found TF charming when I met him, I just didn't believe/trust what he was telling me about CCFC/SISU . I am sure he could be good company away from CCFC.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I would say the 'brand' probably has some value but as you say the club will be sold for the mythical pound, the bigger issue will be what happens to the debt and how much has to be paid out to get rid of that as we definitely don't want new owners coming in still having that to service.

I would think that "brand" value has been declining consistently over the last decade as the problems mount, and the competition cuts in to previously safe markets. It wont begin to consistently climb again until there is success on the pitch and new owners - just my opinion

 

[georgehudson]

i didn't see TF @ the game (vs n'thampton), but i did spot a person, male, approx age 30,
with his phone aimed @ ccfc fans when they were shouting 'sisu out',
furthermore this seemed to be condoned by some stewards,
who were deep in conversation about supposed culprits,

 

[shmmeee]

The ct.clearly aren't doing it for the fans

 

[Nick]

You mentioned ccc, I didn't?

 

[olderskyblue]

This thread has slowly turned from being about Tim, and what a twat he is, to he's alright really and Joy doesn't have to sell, to how it's CCC, Wasps and the CovTel's fault we're in this mess.

Surprised Nick hasn't popped up with his "this isn't all co-incidence" or "PR machine at work" lines...

It seems that way to me.

 

[dongonzalos]

I am not personally doing NOMP yet.
However SISU are and will continue to cut costs. Fan footfall will naturally drop and they will cut more costs.
If they don't develop a player to sell this may happen a bit quicker. If they do develop a player it will drag on longer.
Personally the only logic this makes to me is it is somehow linked to the legal action. So the aim is to have it costing nothing whilst awaiting the outcome.
People advising Joy are earning money whilst the current status continues and I guess she prefers to hear that advice than the thought of giving up.

There will be a cut off point where if they cannot get the club self sufficient they will put it into administration.

I can see the logic of the NOMP people, we will get to adminstration anyway, just a lot quicker via NOMP.

 

[Astute]

I am not personally doing NOMP yet.
However SISU are and will continue to cut costs. Fan footfall will naturally drop and they will cut more costs.
If they don't develop a player to sell this may happen a bit quicker. If they do develop a player it will drag on longer.
Personally the only logic this makes to me is it is somehow linked to the legal action. So the aim is to have it costing nothing whilst awaiting the outcome.
People advising Joy are earning money whilst the current status continues and I guess she prefers to hear that advice than the thought of giving up.

There will be a cut off point where if they cannot get the club self sufficient they will put it into administration.

I can see the logic of the NOMP people, we will get to adminstration anyway, just a lot quicker via NOMP.

The problem that we have is that SISU have not made a loss yet. They have made an investment. They only make a loss when they get rid of our club in whichever way they do and don't recuperate all money invested. This could make Joy keep hold of us for much longer whilst hoping that a miracle happens.

 

[dongonzalos]

The problem that we have is that SISU have not made a loss yet. They have made an investment. They only make a loss when they get rid of our club in whichever way they do and don't recuperate all money invested. This could make Joy keep hold of us for much longer whilst hoping that a miracle happens.

Yes and if this is true when you are in that position you don't always do the most logical thing.you go with the advice you want to hear instead.