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Take it as a compliment that Tony sees you as a nutter.
I like to think I remain sensible on the issue, though I'm sure some will disagree of course.
Take it as a compliment that Tony sees you as a nutter.
It's an asset to the city if you work there. Or in the hotel, casino, bars. Or you own or work in one of the pubs or clubs locally who benefit from events like this taking place in our city. Or you're cleaner, steward, or administrator. Still, as long as you're alright, fuck 'em, eh?
Let's hope it fails. Let's hope it fails and these people don't have their jobs any more. Let's hope it fails, so that there can be TV programmes about this White Elephant on the edge of Coventry, as opposed to the glowing terms in which it was referenced to a national audience today
It's an asset to the city if you work there. Or in the hotel, casino, bars. Or you own or work in one of the pubs or clubs locally who benefit from events like this taking place in our city. Or you're cleaner, steward, or administrator. Still, as long as you're alright, fuck 'em, eh?
Let's hope it fails. Let's hope it fails and these people don't have their jobs any more. Let's hope it fails, so that there can be TV programmes about this White Elephant on the edge of Coventry, as opposed to the glowing terms in which it was referenced to a national audience today
I thought it was wasps that has raised the city's profile , well according to them it was.Yes, the Ricoh never exist or had been on TV before wasps came along. Oh well no need for ccc to hang around, we're not needed, wanted it important. All hail wasps.
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Honestly, the Wasps sub forum is full of nutters.They should rename this sub forum the joke section.
I'm not at the game today, actually watched the game doing my ironing on the television
Tony comes up with the truth. It's excruciating painful to watch grown men praying something fails. Really. There are 32K happy people who have watched a game of sport in Coventry today that's been televised and shown one of the city's assets in a great light. And six embittered men on a message board trying to glorify every bit of bad they can find, or invent in it
And six embittered men on a message board trying to glorify every bit of bad they can find, or invent in it
I like some of the nutters. Otis being one of them, you too
I don't actually disagree with what Otis is saying. It's the ones who go the extra mile and then either cop a deaf one or turn mute when it comes to our clubs owners. Something Otis doesn't do. The same posters who scoffed at anyone suggesting that SISU were overplaying their hand and what would happen if someone came in for the Ricoh, like who they would say, it's a worthless white elephant, SISU are the only show in town etc. Some even dare suggest it may be of interest to a professional Rugby team, rounds of laughter from the intelligent scoffers, I even recall someone mentioning Wasps pointing out they'd played a European game here, try before you buy I seem to remember was my reply to that post, more laughter from the scoffing intellects. Yet here we are.
Then just recently they launch these bonds. Personally I don't know much about it so I pass little comment on it. The intellectual scoffers on the other hand were predicting a flop. That didn't exactly work out for them either. So now they're predicting that they won't be able to pay the interest and who knows the intellectual scoffers may be right. I don't pretend to know better but given the scoffers track record it'll probably end up being a roaring success.
They've pinned all their hopes it seems on CCFC being able to climb up high on the funeral pyre of Wasps RFC. Only problem being we're in danger of dying long before Wasps and that will be down to our owners not Wasps. Still if they keep ignoring our frailties while concentrating on Wasps I'm sure it will all come good in the end.
Nope it isnt excrutiating wishing that Wasps piss off back to from where they came, as supporting a local team I find they way they have left their traditional fanbase and muscled in, in the Midlands abhorent. I have always been straight and stated this as the reason I despise them.
That must be why you are on it so much Tony.
I only come on the Wasps sub forum to turn every thread onto a debate on CCFC and SISU. It only seemed right as the majority of posters on this sub forum are the same ones who like to deflect practically every thread on the CCFC general chat forum onto a debate on Wasps. If you can't beat them join them.
People are capable of identifying the negative impact Wasps will have for us long term as well as the negative impact SISU are currently having. Of course the danger is that in 5-10 years time we have become so much of an after thought and insignificant that we really will be ignored which is your worry.I like some of the nutters. Otis being one of them, you too
I don't actually disagree with what Otis is saying. It's the ones who go the extra mile and then either cop a deaf one or turn mute when it comes to our clubs owners. Something Otis doesn't do. The same posters who scoffed at anyone suggesting that SISU were overplaying their hand and what would happen if someone came in for the Ricoh, like who? they would say, it's a worthless white elephant, SISU are the only show in town etc. Some even dare suggest it may be of interest to a professional Rugby team, rounds of laughter from the intelligent scoffers, I even recall someone mentioning Wasps pointing out they'd played a European game here, try before you buy I seem to remember was my reply to that post, more laughter from the scoffing intellects. Yet here we are.
Then just recently they launch these bonds. Personally I don't know much about it so I pass little comment on it. The intellectual scoffers on the other hand were predicting a flop. That didn't exactly work out for them either. So now they're predicting that they won't be able to pay the interest and who knows the intellectual scoffers may be right. I don't pretend to know better but given the intellectual scoffers track record it'll probably end up being a roaring success.
They've pinned all their hopes it seems on CCFC being able to climb up high on the funeral pyre of Wasps RFC. Only problem being we're in danger of dying long before Wasps and that will be down to our owners not Wasps. Still if they keep ignoring our frailties while concentrating on Wasps I'm sure it will all come good in the end.
The Wasps Defence League, always on hand to denounce anyone who mentions anything remotely negative towards wasps.
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I don't think thats what people want to happen at all, if you believe that then you've completely missed the point of what people have been saying for the last 6 months. Some people just want to see the citys football team (the reason why it was built) to benefit from the Ricoh and not a Rugby team who have no historical connection to the city.
What if - rather than Wasps doing what they did - a conference company had come along, popped a roof over the football stadium and used it for concerts and exhibitions?
I said in a different thread that SISU lost all control of the future of ACL and the Ricoh the minute they self exiled CCFC to Northampton. Worse than that they made it so easy not only for another sports team to buy it on the cheap but also install themselves as anchor tenant. Even returning in the 11th hour didn't change this situation because they did on a short term match day only basis. SISU fucked up twice. First leaving and Second returning in the manor they did. Which is why you don't buy the "We came back to scupper the Wasps deal" theory. If you were going to do it you wouldn't do it in a manor that doesn't reduce the attractiveness of the deal that the other party is going to do. To do that they'd have to come back on A) a long term deal and B) a deal where you have the security of anchor tenant.
It's a hard bullet for some to swallow on here but SISU have got ACL/Ricoh wrong from day one. Even without taking the pointless JR into account.
Agreed. And thank fuck they have a 'franchise sports team' to blame. It's the only handle upon which to hang their argument. Otherwise they'd have to actually think through the sequence of events - with the football club being used without care by it's owners - that gave rise to Wasps getting the Arena. If it had been turned into a conference centre, or concert venue; they'd have nothing to vent their vitriol at
If you've got any consistent morals, than the franchise argument should really be enough for you.
If that isn't enough though, I can give you the screwing over of the football club - which if they continue to fail or leave Coventry knocks the other rubbish argument about this being a good thing for the City squarely on it's head.
If wasn't for the fact that it had screwed SISU over, I'm pretty sure there might be a few others a bit more angry about it if they troubled themselves to join the dots - however for some that alone makes the deal good enough and not worth further consideration.
You won't find me arguing otherwise about a lot of what you have said here, I've said several times if we had never left for Northampton then Wasps almost certainly wouldn't be here.Well maybe the people running that football team should have tried to buy it then? Huh?
Wasps have simply done what the football team should have done.
And all you can do is judge the effect, and not the cause.
What if - rather than Wasps doing what they did - a conference company had come along, popped a roof over the football stadium and used it for concerts and exhibitions? Now, I'm not advocating there's a business case for this, but if that had happened, you'd have to get down off your franchise-sport high-horse and perhaps realise that the fate of the Ricoh is as a function of SISU's brinkmanship; as without this, the council wouldn't have had a decision to make, and Wasps wouldn't have been nosing around.
In fact, the franchise-sport line is a great get-out-of-jail card for Fisher and his misguided policies; as it's got folk like you ranting at the wrong party for our hamstrung football club
But the franchise sport thing is also that which is being used by many to offer repulsion and hatred towards the deal. I understand that. I truly do. But - and here's the point I'm making - it also excuses the club's owners for the perilous position they put the football club in to achieve their own goal. And let's be honest, the asset (ACL, freehold, long lease, etc.) - would never have been held in the same Limited Company at the football club, it would have been a SISU Group asset.
What if CRFC had been a touch more successful in recent seasons - just two divisions better - and they were then in a position to move into The Arena. What would folk say then? The franchise sport argument goes out of the window, the 'supporting local sport' argument with regards the local council goes out of the window. What are you left with? The analysis of how the football club's owners put the football club's very viability at risk, and lost. That's the debate we'd be having. And we're not
You won't find me arguing otherwise about a lot of what you have said here, I've said several times if we had never left for Northampton then Wasps almost certainly wouldn't be here.
I'm not ranting at the wrong party, I know who is to blame for the current state of the club and that is undoubtedly the owners. I also know that because of the sale of the Ricoh, that barring a miracle the club will almost find it impossible to recover from this.
Its simple, before Wasps arrived I could always see the road to recovery from the mess SISU have left us in
After Wasps arrived I can no longer see the road to recovery from the mess SISU have left us in.
Most people from Coventry would watch BT Sport on Saturday, seeing the sell-out and the glowing way in which a location in Coventry is being lauded and be proud. I'm sorry, but that's the truth
But the franchise sport thing is also that which is being used by many to offer repulsion and hatred towards the deal. I understand that. I truly do. But - and here's the point I'm making - it also excuses the club's owners for the perilous position they put the football club in to achieve their own goal. And let's be honest, the asset (ACL, freehold, long lease, etc.) - would never have been held in the same Limited Company at the football club, it would have been a SISU Group asset.
What if CRFC had been a touch more successful in recent seasons - just two divisions better - and they were then in a position to move into The Arena. What would folk say then? The franchise sport argument goes out of the window, the 'supporting local sport' argument with regards the local council goes out of the window. What are you left with? The analysis of how the football club's owners put the football club's very viability at risk, and lost. That's the debate we'd be having. And we're not
The problem with cause and effect though is then we go in the circles of what causes what.
And as there was no flexibility over leases to be in the ground, something had to be done to change that.
Extreme, ruthless... but an entirely commercial decision made to force a commercial dispute. All the time this has been a commercial dispute, and part of the inflexibility in lease has been the desire to maintain a financial position. The problem is when it becomes commercial... deal with the sharks, you risk them ripping your leg off.
I don't expect a public service to be purely driven by finance. It seems, however, ours is.
So it may be a SISU cause of moving, but SISU also had cause to move from other actions. One definable position never works, and never works well. That still doesn;t alter the fact that while playing the caring, sharing, social hand, the former owners of ACL showed little actual desire to move from beyond a financial decision... culminating in professing many great things about community assets and building bridges.
As opposed to reducing it to the filthy lucre.
(FWIW had the Wasps owner bought CRFC and moved them to the Ricoh, then that's a far more appropriate way to get a successful Coventry based rugby team in my eyes - not like he'd have been taking over a club without the tradition and past success, is it?)
As an aside, the genuinely interesting objective survey would be to find out how it was received across the country, and whether Wasps were seen as a representation of Coventry.
My hypothesis would be no... but it would be interesting to test.
Whether that necessarily equates to Wasps representing Coventry - I'm not so sure
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