Tony Mowbray (16 Viewers)

[Nick]

Mowbray said he didn't like to get involved during the game I think

 

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[JulianDarbyFTW]

That's bollocks imo. As long as players are getting paid what they want, I don't know think the rest of it is a detterant

I did try to clarify in another post; if the money was the same and one club was stable and one was reportedly unstable, most right-minded people would pick the stable one. I agree that money plays a huge part. It does in all walks of life. But so does stability.

 

[Gazolba]

<snip> My parting shot would be the fact that sacking the manager has been tried over and over by this and most other clubs. It does not work. Why not try something different this time, stick with a good football man, ride out the bad times and see where it gets us.
.

It worked when we sacked Thorn. Pressley saved us from relegation and the 10-point deduction the following season. It worked when we sacked Pressley, Mowbray saved us from relegation. But for those two sackings we could have been in the Conference by now. If a manager is performing very poorly (as Mowbray has been for some time now), you can either give him more time or persist with him. But if you don't act and then results continue to be poor, sooner or later you will be blamed for not acting and disaster will ensue.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

It worked when we sacked Thorn. Pressley saved us from relegation and the 10-point deduction the following season. It worked when we sacked Pressley, Mowbray saved us from relegation. But for those two sackings we could have been in the Conference by now. If a manager is performing very poorly (as Mowbray has been for some time now), you can either give him more time or persist with him. But if you don't act and then results continue to be poor, sooner or later you will be blamed for not acting and disaster will ensue.

Thorn was replaced by Mark Robbins. He was sacked after the first 3 games of the season which were all drawn. Pressley did not save us from relegation. You might have a point with Mowbray taking over from SP. All the more reason to keep him.

 

[steve82]

I was at Blackpool last season and made comment on the fact Oggy was so influential from the touchline. Again here at Fleetwood I was able to observe again up close. It seems to me Oggy has much of the decision making while the match is in progress. He talks the tactics and shows the board to the sub coming on, he gives the encouragement to them going on and coming off, he shouts from the touchline at players, he basically has a lot of control over the way we do our business on match day.
So what's wrong here?
Well he's the goal keeping coach not the team coach? I'm surprised that he has so much sway over the match and players during the game. TM rarely gets out his seat. Now two things bug me here.
TM surely needs to show he is in control, that the players are playing for him on a match day and all enthusiastic momentum, endeavor and encouragement should be coming from him?
The second thing is what I mentioned last year. Oggy has been with us as a faithful servant for ever. I like him but he is not a manager or team coach and I just sense that some of our troubles on match days can be attributed to his influence. We pay for an experienced manager/coach to do this job and we are getting Oggy far too ingrained on a match day basis with what is or isn't happening on the pitch. Players may be confused and Page certainly was when Oggy then Venus had words from the touchline and Page shouting back and arguing before Mowbray stepped up?
I'd like to see Oggy moved sideways and concentrate on the goalkeeper coaching and be nowhere near the touchline on match days. Isn't Venus and Mowbray enough? There may be too many chefs in the kitchen on match days and TM ought to be front and centre. He must show he is making decisions during games unimpeded by Oggy or anyone else. Oggy is the common denominator on the coaching side since our slide from grace. Not saying it's his fault but with match day touchline influence he has may be a contributing factor. Can we please ask TM to step in and be seen to step in?

I sat pretty much next to the dug outs yesterday too so got too hear a lot of the commands.
•What I observed were that oggy was very present in the technical area but in a good way. He gave a lot of helping commands to RCC and at defending set pieces and to the new lad Sterry. Not so much decision making more reminding of positional play and especially to RCC to wind the click down till half time when Turnbull was limping badly.
• oggy as you say drills the subs on technical aspects from various sheets.
• JC is also very instrumental in the technical area, in a more quiet way pulling players close for a word.
• TM was up and down out of his seat offering his opinion, first half in particular, the second I don't think he moved. Shaking his head in disbelief a lot. Tho started to come in for heavy criticism from those seated close making there feelings known.
• on a side note Uwe Rostler was a entertaining watch, very animated and comical.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Who would you appoint in his place ??

Steve Cotterill would get us out this league in his first season IMO .
I am not saying sack TM now just answering your question

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I think 10 league games max, how many points / wins would he need in the next 4? 2 wins and a draw? That would out us on 10 from 10?

People keep mentioning Barnsley. After 6 games barnsley had 7 points and won 2 games and were 14th. After 10 they were 13th (played 1 less than the rest of the league) 4 wins and 14 points. More importantly thet were scoring goals.


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Then after that they lost about 10 games in the bounce and were in the relegation zone and still managed to get promoted.

So we have a lot more matches to turn it around than Barnsley did.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Would players really be that bothered? Its not like they stay long these days.
There's been no rumours of the players not getting paid, that's happened at other clubs.

I think they would be bothered if they wanted to stay long.

Hence i think why we've mostly signed young players trying to use us a stepping stone to bigger things and players who are past it on short term deals and a few others who would be considered a gamble trying to build/rebuild reputations and are happy to take short term deals.

 

[higgs]

If mogga does get sacked then we need to get rid of oggy aswell as his influence is not good around the club anymore as we lose manager after manager will he is bringing to the table other than 87 nostalgia I just don't know

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[Paxman II]

I sat pretty much next to the dug outs yesterday too so got too hear a lot of the commands.
•What I observed were that oggy was very present in the technical area but in a good way. He gave a lot of helping commands to RCC and at defending set pieces and to the new lad Sterry. Not so much decision making more reminding of positional play and especially to RCC to wind the click down till half time when Turnbull was limping badly.
• oggy as you say drills the subs on technical aspects from various sheets.
• JC is also very instrumental in the technical area, in a more quiet way pulling players close for a word.
• TM was up and down out of his seat offering his opinion, first half in particular, the second I don't think he moved. Shaking his head in disbelief a lot. Tho started to come in for heavy criticism from those seated close making there feelings known.
• on a side note Uwe Rostler was a entertaining watch, very animated and comical.

I agree with you Steve82 but my point being is it should not be his job to be this influential in my opinion. I want my manager to do what I believe in him for and why we brought TM in. I know he may approve of Oggy and others having sway in lots of areas and put trust in them but for me I think TM needs to get full control on match days at the touchline on every issue and decision. I don't want Oggy doing it. I want my man Mowbray asserting himself.
Yes Rosler was entertaining and wore his heart on his sleeve throughout. He at least made every decision and gave out instructions. he was the one putting an arm around the sub and telling him what he wanted as opposed to Oggy....when for me it should be Mowbray. I think there would be a contrasting difference from the players if they didn't have the 'legend' in Oggy to go through all the time.

 

[Grendel]

Despite my many misgivings about Mowbray I do not believe for one second he sits back and let's a goalkeeping coach do the tactics on match day.

 

[steve82]

I agree with you Steve82 but my point being is it should not be his job to be this influential in my opinion. I want my manager to do what I believe in him for and why we brought TM in. I know he may approve of Oggy and others having sway in lots of areas and put trust in them but for me I think TM needs to get full control on match days at the touchline on every issue and decision. I don't want Oggy doing it. I want my man Mowbray asserting himself.
Yes Rosler was entertaining and wore his heart on his sleeve throughout. He at least made every decision and gave out instructions. he was the one putting an arm around the sub and telling him what he wanted as opposed to Oggy....when for me it should be Mowbray. I think there would be a contrasting difference from the players if they didn't have the 'legend' in Oggy to go through all the time.

I actually like Uwe Roslers approach, he set the standard he wanted kicking every ball on the sidelines.
It is a tactic used up and down the country tho. It's not always the manager doing the leg work. Everyone has there styles I suppose

 

[Hobo]

It worked when we sacked Thorn. Pressley saved us from relegation and the 10-point deduction the following season. It worked when we sacked Pressley, Mowbray saved us from relegation. But for those two sackings we could have been in the Conference by now. If a manager is performing very poorly (as Mowbray has been for some time now), you can either give him more time or persist with him. But if you don't act and then results continue to be poor, sooner or later you will be blamed for not acting and disaster will ensue.

But hasn't moved us forward. Your projection of relegation to the Conference is a theory not a fact.

 

[Grendel]

But hasn't moved us forward. Your projection of relegation to the Conference is a theory not a fact.

There are no facts on this. We could have kept Andy Thorn as manager and we could now be in the champions league.

Personally I would doubt this.

 

[Hobo]

There are no facts on this. We could have kept Andy Thorn as manager and we could now be in the champions league.

Personally I would doubt this.

Of course there are facts, like us being in the bottom three of league 1, but only after 6 games. New. squad, young players...don't panic.

 

[Grendel]

Of course there are facts, like us being in the bottom three of league 1, but only after 6 games. New. squad, young players...don't panic.

When is the time to panic?

 

[Hobo]

When is the time to panic?

When you have bottled it.

 

[stupot07]

Despite my many misgivings about Mowbray I do not believe for one second he sits back and let's a goalkeeping coach do the tactics on match day.

I agree. The suggestion that an experienced manager would let oggy dictate systems, tactics, Subs, etc, is laughable.

Mowbray put oggy in charge of defending set pieces when he first arrived, the info in the folder what oggy shows players when they are coming on as sub is who they are marking and what positions they need to be in when defending set pieces.

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[Hobo]

When is the time to panic?

Seriously, being 11 points off first place with 40 games to go is not the time to panic.

 

[ccfcway]

When is the time to panic?

what's his aim ? if its promotion, we could do this via the play offs with is 7 points away. Plenty of time left yet

 

[chiefdave]

Despite my many misgivings about Mowbray I do not believe for one second he sits back and let's a goalkeeping coach do the tactics on match day.

It seems to be popular now that the coach or manager instructs someone further down the chain who does the yelling at the players and actually sorting things out. A total guess but maybe thats so the manager can concentrate on what's happening on the pitch.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

If mogga does get sacked then we need to get rid of oggy aswell as his influence is not good around the club anymore as we lose manager after manager will he is bringing to the table other than 87 nostalgia I just don't know

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I just don't get posts like this. How do you know? Do you work at the club? The probability is that you are guessing. Oggy could be fantastic. He could be terrible. If you don't know how can you say this decision or that decision needs to be made?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

There will be lots of managers out there haooy to come and take the reigns. I would give him another couple of games, but he needs to turn this around and quickly.

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So we lose the next two games TM is sacked. Who do we bring in and how will this new person succeed where every other manager we have had since relegation from the PL has failed? Why would this one be different, particularly as he is inheriting TM's squad at least until January and possibly to the end of the season depending on how much money is left? At some stage, at some point a manager of our club has to be given a chance to develop things long term, where dispite poor results he is allowed to carry on. Mowbray is honest, experienced and seems to have a plan. You seem to simply want to take a punt that the next one will be different. Why? Everyone knows we are a basket case of a club. For me the one glimmer of hope, the one thing that takes away from the colossal off field mess is that we actually have stumbled onto someone who might be able to take us forward on the pitch despite our crap owners.There was an extended glimpse of this last season. I think he can do it again if he is given the time. It can almost be guaranteed that in a little over a year ( maybe less) all those now calling for Mowbray to go will be doing the same to his successor. The rigmarole will start again. I hope Anderson remembers his words at the Trust forum when he said that statistically it is proven that sacking a manager almost never works. I hope he sticks to his guns, refuses to pull the trigger and backs TM to the hilt. It might be one of the very few sensible things a Sisu appointee has done.

 

[stupot07]

So we lose the next two games TM is sacked. Who do we bring in and how will this new person succeed where every other manager we have had since relegation from the PL has failed? Why would this one be different, particularly as he is inheriting TM's squad at least until January and possibly to the end of the season depending on how much money is left? At some stage, at some point a manager of our club has to be given a chance to develop things long term, where dispite poor results he is allowed to carry on. Mowbray is honest, experienced and seems to have a plan. You seem to simply want to take a punt that the next one will be different. Why? Everyone knows we are a basket case of a club. For me the one glimmer of hope, the one thing that takes away from the colossal off field mess is that we actually have stumbled onto someone who might be able to take us forward on the pitch despite our crap owners.There was an extended glimpse of this last season. I think he can do it again if he is given the time. It can almost be guaranteed that in a little over a year ( maybe less) all those now calling for Mowbray to go will be doing the same to his successor. The rigmarole will start again. I hope Anderson remembers his words at the Trust forum when he said that statistically it is proven that sacking a manager almost never works. I hope he sticks to his guns, refuses to pull the trigger and backs TM to the hilt. It might be one of the very few sensible things a Sisu appointee has done.

Do you think Mowbray will stay beyong his contract in the summer?

I like mowbray, I do. But I also have concerns about his management style, his stubbornness around tactics and the fact he still doesn't understand or know league one very well.

I'm not saying i want him sacked now, but I'm saying he needs to pull it around and sharpish otherwise the inevitable will happen.

Mowbray said this was a 2 year project, this was the season for pushing for promotion. You say he has a plan, what is it? We seem to have gone backwards.

1) for formation isnt working
2) we've scored just 2 league goals in 2 games and don't really look like scoring
3) hes brought in PL academy loans that are no better than our own players (page, sterry)
4) he continues to snub players - Ruben scored 1, got 2 assists and MOTM midweek then is an unused sub on sat.
5) he signed players that don't fit the system he wanted to play (e.g Reid)

You say he showed glimpses last season, the majority of that team isn't here, we're not building on last seasons success, we've had to totally rebuild, most of that is mowbrays fault.

How long do you give him? Will he stay and extend his contract?

I don't like the merry-go-round either And I do like mowbray, but he needs results.

As to who would come in? I don't know, but there will be plenty of takers.

Let's hope he gets some results in the next 2-3 games.

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[covcity4life]

2 wins on trot and these threads dont happen

its understandable,but still kneejerk

trust in TM!

 

[robbiekeane]

Do you think Mowbray will stay beyong his contract in the summer?

I like mowbray, I do. But I also have concerns about his management style, his stubbornness around tactics and the fact he still doesn't understand or know league one very well.

I'm not saying i want him sacked now, but I'm saying he needs to pull it around and sharpish otherwise the inevitable will happen.

Mowbray said this was a 2 year project, this was the season for pushing for promotion. You say he has a plan, what is it? We seem to have gone backwards.

1) for formation isnt working
2) we've scored just 2 league goals in 2 games and don't really look like scoring
3) hes brought in PL academy loans that are no better than our own players (page, sterry)
4) he continues to snub players - Ruben scored 1, got 2 assists and MOTM midweek then is an unused sub on sat.
5) he signed players that don't fit the system he wanted to play (e.g Reid)

You say he showed glimpses last season, the majority of that team isn't here, we're not building on last seasons success, we've had to totally rebuild, most of that is mowbrays fault.

How long do you give him? Will he stay and extend his contract?

I don't like the merry-go-round either And I do like mowbray, but he needs results.

As to who would come in? I don't know, but there will be plenty of takers.

Let's hope he gets some results in the next 2-3 games.

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Bang on

 

[robbiekeane]

2 wins on trot and these threads dont happen

its understandable,but still kneejerk

trust in TM!

This sounds ridiculous, but hear me out - in some ways it's not even so much about the results...its the manner of them and its about the fact that we seem to have gone backwards from last year. It's that we're trying to cram players into a formation that everyone can see isn't working and he's too stubborn to change it. It's his strange favouritism and snubbing of some players, and hit and miss signings.

If we were sat here on these points as we are now, but we have just been excruciatingly unlucky, scoring goals, the system looked promising, the signings look better that last year, and it seems that at any point now our luck will turn and we'll give someone and absolute pounding, then I'd not be talking about Mowbray going.

But I don't think anyone feels like that

 

[covcity4life]

This sounds ridiculous, but hear me out - in some ways it's not even so much about the results...its the manner of them and its about the fact that we seem to have gone backwards from last year. It's that we're trying to cram players into a formation that everyone can see isn't working and he's too stubborn to change it. It's his strange favouritism and snubbing of some players, and hit and miss signings.

If we were sat here on these points as we are now, but we have just been excruciatingly unlucky, scoring goals, the system looked promising, the signings look better that last year, and it seems that at any point now our luck will turn and we'll give someone and absolute pounding, then I'd not be talking about Mowbray going.

But I don't think anyone feels like that

just a few questions

what are the "miss signings" THIS year?

formation has us stronger at back,we just need to tweak attack. but i agree i wouldnt mind a return to 42-3-1 either.

what players is he snubbing?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

i wouldnt mind a return to 42-3-1 either.

Even we'd have a chance with 42 at the back.

 

[skybluesam66]

Even we'd have a chance with 42 at the back.

we would still only get a 0-0

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Do you think Mowbray will stay beyong his contract in the summer?

I like mowbray, I do. But I also have concerns about his management style, his stubbornness around tactics and the fact he still doesn't understand or know league one very well.

I'm not saying i want him sacked now, but I'm saying he needs to pull it around and sharpish otherwise the inevitable will happen.

Mowbray said this was a 2 year project, this was the season for pushing for promotion. You say he has a plan, what is it? We seem to have gone backwards.

1) for formation isnt working
2) we've scored just 2 league goals in 2 games and don't really look like scoring
3) hes brought in PL academy loans that are no better than our own players (page, sterry)
4) he continues to snub players - Ruben scored 1, got 2 assists and MOTM midweek then is an unused sub on sat.
5) he signed players that don't fit the system he wanted to play (e.g Reid)

You say he showed glimpses last season, the majority of that team isn't here, we're not building on last seasons success, we've had to totally rebuild, most of that is mowbrays fault.

How long do you give him? Will he stay and extend his contract?

I don't like the merry-go-round either And I do like mowbray, but he needs results.

As to who would come in? I don't know, but there will be plenty of takers.

Let's hope he gets some results in the next 2-3 games.

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I agree with some of what you say. Certainly the wing backs at the moment don't seem to be an improvement on DKE and Haynes, particularly attacking wise. Early days yet and this could change. It could be that these two were well down the list of players that TM was hoping to bring in. That in itself could be due to the budget that he has been given. I have to admit though that if TM was given a budget by Sisu/ Chris Anderson that he felt didn't give him a chance to succeed, I don't think he would have stayed.
Fans have every right to criticise a manager ( although it drives me up the wall when on 6-0-6 manager X is described as tactically naive by a caller as to do this with authority the caller would need to be tactically astute, unlikely in most cases), however could TM's stubbornness not simply be giving the system a good chance to work. He tried something similar at the end of last season and got 4 wins in 5 games. The system didn't work at Fleetwood, although I felt we were as likely to win as they were until they scored. However, I thought we looked good against Northampton and against West Ham. I agree though, you can't argue with the lack of goals. That has to improve dramatically. Problem is we don't seem to have a natural goal scorer.
Not sure about snubbing players as I would think he picks the team he thinks will win, after all, as shown by all of the "Mowbray out" comments, his job depends on results, I can't see managers picking favourites at his own expense.
You say the need to rebuild is Mowbray's fault. I don't agree with this. It is all about opinions but the only players released last year that I would have kept are Phillips and O'Brien. The rest were either returning loans or not re- signing like Fleck or perhaps not good enough. ( I think Harries, Willis and Turnble all look better than Martin). This is I think what Mowbray is trying to overcome, the fact that every year we start with half a new team. It seems to me that he is trying to sign the players he can build around on 3 or 4 year contracts. Harries, Jones and Turnball are the basis of this. Listening to him talking about the transfer window it seems he would have liked to have done more of these deals but for whatever reason ( probably wages), they didn't happen. If we manage to keep Willis, Cooke, Stevenson, the DKE boys, Biggi if he plays like he did on Saturday and Thomas if he can show the form he did when he first played, we would have the basis of a decent squad. ( I would include Haynes in this too as I think he can still develop into a good player). The plan as I see it is therefore, not to depend on loans, to have more of our own players and in the close season be able to tweak not overhaul the squad. Will he be given the time and resources to do this? Who knows. It certainly seems more than a two year job with one step back for every two forward. In an ideal world I think he would have kept Vincelot. However he did seem to fade at the end of the season and was not playing midfield then or in the preseason friendlies.It seemed like he needed the money to help finance maybe the Turnble deal.
You then come back to the fundamental question, is sacking Tony Mowbray now or in two games or even in ten, twenty games time likely to improve our fortunes given the time of year and all of them dismal circumstances that surround our club? I don't think it will. I have no doubt we would be inundated with job applications but do you really believe, despite all the evidence to the contrary that one of these will do any better than the umpteen other managers we have had or is this just another shot in the dark?
At the end of the season if we have had a resonable time or better, if there is hope and signs of progress, I think he will stay. At the moment we have to get through this season first so doesn't really matter.

 

[pete212]

How is oggy still in a job?

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Because he's a legend and always will be

 

[stevefloyd]

Past his sell by date......

 

[Hobo]

what's his aim ? if its promotion, we could do this via the play offs with is 7 points away. Plenty of time left yet

That is an important question, what indeed is the aim?

To most I think it would be a sustainable successful team.

Why do people think the necessity for promotion this year will achieve that?

The building of a successful club needs good foundations. Society seems to be losing that concept. Instant gratification seems more important than quality!

 

[Grendel]

That is an important question, what indeed is the aim?

To most I think it would be a sustainable successful team.

Why do people think the necessity for promotion this year will achieve that?

The building of a successful club needs good foundations. Society seems to be losing that concept. Instant gratification seems more important than quality!

Oh come on - this is football not "society" and short term always is more important.