Too many COOKS spoil the broth (2 Viewers)

[Philosoraptor]

Enlighten me then. What does each of them do?

I believe what Shmmeee is trying to say is that the 'ceteris paribus' is not there.

Or, if we are going for it, it is there but in the wrong place or places.

 

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[Hobo]

The last seven years aren’t a myth. It’s not about results it’s about tens of millions spent and performances getting worse not better year on year. For all the shit Sisu brought with them, we consistently improved under Robins and Viveash. Just doesn’t seem to me a coincidence that once we get a more involved owner for better or worse that starts to fall apart. Feels like Robins is here as a figurehead not as the spokesman for a tight knit coaching setup. Maybe we need to rip the plaster off and replace Robins and go all in with Kings vision, but what I’ve seen so far has been poor across the board for a lot more spend. Give them time, sure, but they’ve spent all summer with this squad and other coaching teams manage to have instant impact. I think considering the fanfare around this expanded team it’s fair to ask questions about impact.

I know all that, the new coaches have barely had eight weeks left alone 7 years. But you are going down the knee jerk path. Your only opinion is 'different' rather than solutions.

The higher you rise the harder success is. I believe the future is still bright if we have patience.

Earlier this year I drove past the Norwich training ground and it's facilities. It made me realise how far adrift we are from teams we consider our equals.

You mention SISU, they were like Mafia concrete boots and they dumped us at sea.

What worked in League 1 & League 2 won't necessarily work in the Championship. Clinging onto Viveash is like clinging onto McFadzean, Godden & Kelly.

 

[MalcSB]

Oh it's all down to Refs against us? Get real. Callum Doyle showed us what we are lacking. Got pushed by Simms fairly and took a nasty knock on the knee against the post. Got up played on. Got clattered fairly by Wright and ok a bit of tetchy afters. But got on with it, then clattered Wright in six yard box and the Sakamoto. Both hard but fair challenges, defending like his life depended it. When he was at Coventry as a teenager he played in every position across the central three. Far more versatile than McFadz. Doyle is a quality defender and a class above and has bounced back from his broken leg on loan at Leicester.

Was booking Lati and not booking Doyle reasonable.

 

[Hobo]

Was booking Lati and not booking Doyle reasonable.

Lati's booking was totally stupid on Lati's part. Sakamoto was as good as off the pitch injured. Lati walked him further onto the pitch and physically prevented the medical staff getting to him when the ref had given them permission to come on. It was bizarre behaviour by Lati. I can only assume he wanted Sakamoto treated on the pitch rather than off it ? His booking was fully justified.

 

[Covcraig@bury]

4-4-2 or 4-3-3 the old fashioned way. We need to boss the midfield, my opinion feel free to shoot me down

 

[Hobo]

So far doesn’t look like any of the new replacements our good enough to replace Adi and Dennis

obviously just coaching our Centre backs to pass it to each other before playing a tediously slow ball out to the full back

hopefully it gets turned around in the next couple of weeks, but a counter attack style is the way to go

We were playing slow ball from the back under Viveash.. It was his trademark

And that isn't a complete criticism. Play football and play with variety and tempo

 

[shmmeee]

I know all that, the new coaches have barely had eight weeks left alone 7 years. But you are going down the knee jerk path. Your only opinion is 'different' rather than solutions.

The higher you rise the harder success is. I believe the future is still bright if we have patience.

Earlier this year I drove past the Norwich training ground and it's facilities. It made me realise how far adrift we are from teams we consider our equals.

You mention SISU, they were like Mafia concrete boots and they dumped us at sea.

What worked in League 1 & League 2 won't necessarily work in the Championship. Clinging onto Viveash is like clinging onto McFadzean, Godden & Kelly.

My solution is either keep doing what’s worked for Robins or go full Man City lite with an appropriate Head Coach or whatever wank name they give their manager. For me Robins and Viveash and to a lesser extent Lawrence worked as a team. Viveash was repeatedly mentioned by players as an influence, moreso than Robins. I think it’s fair to assume a large chunk of our success was down to him.

I worry King is biting off more than he can chew. He’s a very opinionated guy and has clearly had an impact not just on commercial and revenue/spend side of things. You made big calls like that, you have to take the responsibility for the results of it and there needs to be results. Breaking something that was working and replacing it with something better is fine, but there has to be results or you have to account for the lost time.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I wonder if our new equipment can draw out Voronoi diagrams instead of xG.

An awful lot better in my honest opinion.

Horses for courses and all that.

 

[shmmeee]

I wonder if our new equipment can draw out Voronoi diagrams instead of xG.

An awful lot better in my honest opinion.

Horses for courses and all that.

What do you think of this?

 

[Philosoraptor]

What do you think of this?

The wonders of Github. Open source software at its very best.

Yep, you've got the approach.

Oh, I know where all the decent computer programmers from chess hang out. They would have a field day from taking stats off this.

Doing this is very specialized work.

One of the reasons why I showed you the software

I'm just playing around with a very small part of a very large project.

 

[Hobo]

My solution is either keep doing what’s worked for Robins or go full Man City lite with an appropriate Head Coach or whatever wank name they give their manager. For me Robins and Viveash and to a lesser extent Lawrence worked as a team. Viveash was repeatedly mentioned by players as an influence, moreso than Robins. I think it’s fair to assume a large chunk of our success was down to him.

I worry King is biting off more than he can chew. He’s a very opinionated guy and has clearly had an impact not just on commercial and revenue/spend side of things. You made big calls like that, you have to take the responsibility for the results of it and there needs to be results. Breaking something that was working and replacing it with something better is fine, but there has to be results or you have to account for the lost time.

My take is Viveash wasn't faultless and probably overturned his own applecart? Robins didn't. I think Robins, not just the Senior management started to feel perhaps Viveash wasn't the right fit going forward (despite, let's face it a long contract).

Under the new structure it is early days. So I am going to wait and see rather than knee jerk like some spotty teenager. Quite frankly I have more going on in my life than getting over anxious about a handful of mediocre results.

We have plenty of talent to work with. People need to chill out a bit.

 

[blunted]

You are just entrenched in the past. How have we got worse? We had terrible pre seasons under Viveash and a terrible finish last year.

He had a high profile job at Chelsea, then was at Coventry League 2, League 1, then Championship. Nobody came in and said what is he doing at that level, we will have him?

He was a good coach but he wasn't God of the coaching world.

Give the new guys time.

Firstly, it is way too early to judge the new coaching staff. If we are seriously shit at Christmas, questions have to be asked regarding recruitment, coaching and tactics. They may be collectively better than Adi. We will have to wait and see.
Adi's record says he is a top successful coach. His record proves that. Would he have been good enough for the Prem with us? Clearly, we wont ever know now.
We did start badly under Adi in the last two seasons which seems a recurring problem that needs addressing within the club The elite friendlies haven't proved any better than our previous lesser club build ups.
The end of season collapse has been fully documented by the club and the players who said they were running on fumes. Injuries, the cup run and lack of squad were the cause, although a couple of bad offside decisions did not help
Several different coaches should not be shouting different instructions during a game, if indeed that is happening.
I explained to you before that Adi made it abundantly clear in his interview that he was happy here as an assistant and had no intention of moving or being a manager. I don't understand why you persist in claiming that no one came in for him when you simply don't know if that was the case and to reiterate he made it crystal clear he was happy here. There was a strong rumour that Plymouth wanted him as Manager. Who knows if he had other offers during his time here. I don't know and neither does anyone else.
It was inevitable that if we put in the average performances we have this season that the Adi question would be asked. Too early for that but if we don't finish in the top 10 this season a serious review of our set up needs to be addressed. And I don't mean sacking MR who I believe is a top man manager. The coaches "paint the pictures" and they need to get us winning in the league fairly soon

 

[shmmeee]

My take is Viveash wasn't faultless and probably overturned his own applecart? Robins didn't. I think Robins, not just the Senior management started to feel perhaps Viveash wasn't the right fit going forward (despite, let's face it a long contract).

Under the new structure it is early days. So I am going to wait and see rather than knee jerk like some spotty teenager. Quite frankly I have more going on in my life than getting over anxious about a handful of mediocre results.

We have plenty of talent to work with. People need to chill out a bit.

Ah where’s the fun in that?

Ive been silently bed wetting since Viveash left. I think he was vital, and slightly damp since Lawrence went. I don’t have the blind faith in matching tracksuits and people who vibe like they’re very active on LinkedIn being some amazing modern coaching revolution by default. What makes Man City Man City is 99% Pep and his coaches and 1% the bloke who preheats the team bath or knits individual cock warmers in winter. They are just the trappings of wealth.

 

[Hobo]

Ah where’s the fun in that?

Ive been silently bed wetting since Viveash left. I think he was vital, and slightly damp since Lawrence went. I don’t have the blind faith in matching tracksuits and people who vibe like they’re very active on LinkedIn being some amazing modern coaching revolution by default. What makes Man City Man City is 99% Pep and his coaches and 1% the bloke who preheats the team bath or knits individual cock warmers in winter. They are just the trappings of wealth.

I will leave you with your broad spectrum of anxieties over the International Break.

 

[Hobo]

Firstly, it is way too early to judge the new coaching staff. If we are seriously shit at Christmas, questions have to be asked regarding recruitment, coaching and tactics. They may be collectively better than Adi. We will have to wait and see.
Adi's record says he is a top successful coach. His record proves that. Would he have been good enough for the Prem with us? Clearly, we wont ever know now.
We did start badly under Adi in the last two seasons which seems a recurring problem that needs addressing within the club The elite friendlies haven't proved any better than our previous lesser club build ups.
The end of season collapse has been fully documented by the club and the players who said they were running on fumes. Injuries, the cup run and lack of squad were the cause, although a couple of bad offside decisions did not help
Several different coaches should not be shouting different instructions during a game, if indeed that is happening.
I explained to you before that Adi made it abundantly clear in his interview that he was happy here as an assistant and had no intention of moving or being a manager. I don't understand why you persist in claiming that no one came in for him when you simply don't know if that was the case and to reiterate he made it crystal clear he was happy here. There was a strong rumour that Plymouth wanted him as Manager. Who knows if he had other offers during his time here. I don't know and neither does anyone else.
It was inevitable that if we put in the average performances we have this season that the Adi question would be asked. Too early for that but if we don't finish in the top 10 this season a serious review of our set up needs to be addressed. And I don't mean sacking MR who I believe is a top man manager. The coaches "paint the pictures" and they need to get us winning in the league fairly soon

I think we definitely need a top ten finish because we are a top ten side, possibly top six, but not top two.

I have said the new coaches deserve time.
I have said Viveash was a good coach and a good fit for us at the time.
All I have pointed out was he wasn't perfect and we had bad runs of form under him.

Blaming our frailties on him departing is ludicrous as they were apparent under his coaching regime. Unless you didn't attend games last season?

 

[Calista]

I believe what Shmmeee is trying to say is that the 'ceteris paribus' is not there.

You reckon?

 

[shmmeee]

You reckon?

He took the words right out of my mouth…

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

So is the excuse this season that the coaches need time to gel, is that really a thing? If they are good coaches shouldn't they be able to put on high level coaching sessions from day one?

 

[Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue]

Picking up on a few previous comments about our new coaching staff.
previous seasons have seen MR be the man giving instructions from the bench to the players with AV and DL staying on the bench but giving advice and support.
since they have gone and the new coaching team have come in we have seen yesterday and the mat h at Bristol as well as the Oxford game up to three coaches at a time shouting orders to players on the pitch from the managers area.
surely this is confusing players and also undermining Robins as the manager. Could this be the reason the players look confused and unsure what they should be doing.
imagine being at work and you have three or four people telling you how to do your job at the same time

I thought @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 had started this thread, but then realised it would said Cucks not Cooks!

 

[tisza]

Players don’t look up for it or fit, that’s supposed to be a named persons job. Our set pieces are basically as hoc, that’s another. Defensive shape is poor. Attacking patterns non existent. The coaches clearly can’t get their ideas across if they have them and the players aren’t motivated or fit.

As I say it smacks of all the gear and no idea, startup with VC funding type hires. Not the considered incremental hires you make when you’re self funding and can hire for impact and fit.

Nailed it

 

[clint van damme]

We have started better than under Viveash some seasons. The guys reputation is a myth. Otherwise he would have been back coaching in the Premier League years ago.

We're not in the premier league, we're in the Championship, so we need people who can coach effectively in the championship, and I think it's indisputable that he did a good job on that front.

 

[Hobo]

We're not in the premier league, we're in the Championship, so we need people who can coach effectively in the championship, and I think it's indisputable that he did a good job on that front.

Yes he did a good job I am not disputing that. Perhaps the new guys given the time they deserve will do a very good job?

It's a football club. Players move on, coaches move on, managers move on. They are always fluid, especially with form and injuries thrown in.

I thought pre season there were encouraging signs. Then once things started for real players went back to how they were doing things at the end of last season.

However, I have Bristol and Norwich being there or there abouts. So the start may not pan out to be as disastrous as some think? Norwich wasn't a great performance, but it was a vast improvement on Stoke.

The main problem is the disconnect between our midfield and our forwards. We have to have the legs to get in and around Simms so he is not isolated. At Stoke their CB's played him well. One engaged and the other dropped off and moped up. It was too easy but that wasn't Simms fault. It is early days and the sort of panicking some of our fans are doing is nothing new.