Top 6 Budget? (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

Talk of the budget didn't come up until posters started taking a snapshot of part of the season rather than a season as a whole and start calling for the managers head. Funny that the same posters weren't calling for him to be given a five year contract during a more favourable snapshot of the season. It was almost like they were waiting for him to fall on his sword so they could enjoy calling for him to go. Which is of course all too easy and ignoring the bigger picture. Budgets then came up as part of this bigger picture.

Or because shouting for a 5 year contract would be silly after a successful 3 months?

 

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[dongonzalos]

One small point. I've not personally put a position on where I believe we fall in the budget table. All I've said is why take SW at gospel given the history of smoke and mirrors from the top. Announcement in 2 weeks, new year. We're talking to multiple local authorities, the environment agency etc. and doing impact studies, TF estimates on crowds at Sixfields, required average gate for this season. I really could go on and on at what has turned out to be pure inaccuracy to bullshit to completely fudging figures and getting estimates wrong on an alarming scales. That seems to have been enough to upset Grendull and send him on the warpath putting words into my mouth, asking leading questions instead of just making the point etc.

SW said we have a playing wage budget of £2m, yes I would expect that to be correct. He then went on to say that we BELIEVE that puts us in the top quartile using the FL redacted report. It's the latter I'm saying is ambiguous and open to interpretation. To start of the top quartile is not the same as saying the top quarter (someone gave an explanation of that earlier) if it's top quarter i.e. sixth or above why not just say top quarter not quartile? Also the report is redacted so with the best will in the world the placing of us exactly in that table is going to require some estimating, I've already pointed out the history of estimating. Also the figures as far as anyone can tell is based on the SCMP calculation and there are ways and means of getting around that. Or are we to believe that Bury can afford the wages of the likes of Clarke based on the SCMP calculation?

I'm taking the suggestion that we have a top six budget with a cynical pinch of salt, that's all. And given the history of those at the top of our club who could blame me? I don't know where we actually fall in that table and neither does any of those taking sixth place as gospel because SW said so.

He specifically said 8th-6th on player budget.
Don't think he can be any clearer than that
We are either 8th, 7th or 6th.

 

[Nick]

If only we knew what Waggot said

 

[skybluetony176]

Or because shouting for a 5 year contract would be silly after a successful 3 months?

Correct. As is calling for his head on a snapshot of a season.

 

[skybluetony176]

Ive never called for the managers head, nor until today discussed the budget, it just hasnt been relevant.

In my opinion, Mowbray seems to have had a fairly decent budget. I think he could have done better, but am not sure whether that was play offs or not.

I dont agree with chopping and changing managers every year, as it just causes internal chaos, has no stability and costs the club money which could be spent on players. I hope he can achieve more next year, and think if he doesnt he will go by choice or by the clubs decision. I would like to think he will succeed, but he cant make the same mistakes again.

Fair enough Moff. I wouldn't fundamentally disagree with anything you said there.

 

[Nick]

Correct. As is calling for his head on a snapshot of a season.

There is a difference between calling for his head and pointing things out.

The same happened with Thorn and Pressley, to start off they could do no wrong, hands tied etc. Blame budgets etc.

I don't see the logic in changing him come October or December so a new manager has to work with Mowbray signings. He has 1 year left, may as well give him that (unless we are looking at relegation)

 

[Brylowes]

There is a difference between calling for his head and pointing things out.

The same happened with Thorn and Pressley, to start off they could do no wrong, hands tied etc. Blame budgets etc.

I don't see the logic in changing him come October or December so a new manager has to work with Mowbray signings. He has 1 year left, may as well give him that (unless we are looking at relegation)

Yeah would agree this, TM did worry me a bit with his tinkering, but I'm sure he will be
more equipped for it next season. I know all teams pick up injuries through the
season , but I think we were unlucky that most of ours were concentrated on defenders .
with a more settled back line, reckon we'd all be looking forward to the playoffs now.

 

[dongonzalos]

If only we knew what Waggot said

You would think we don't.......

The amount of times people are just making up their own figures and naming all the clubs who can't possibly have a higher player budget than us.
Interpreting words such as quartile incorrectly. Or state that we don't know where it sits in terms of playing budget.
But I don't mind repeating every time someone states it incorrectly as much as you take the rip

 

[chiefdave]

What point are people actually trying to prove now?

The argument seems to be if the budget is 6th, 7th or 8th. Does it really matter. Not like we're going to finish 8th and the argument that a small investment could have resulted in the play offs could be used.

 

[Nick]

What point are people actually trying to prove now?

I am not too sure, it starts as reasoning for the drop in form. If we lose a game it is down to budget and investment.

 

[Moff]

What point are people actually trying to prove now?

I was just impressed we got 15 pages out of something no one knows the exact truth about. Still we can argue well over supposition

 

[dongonzalos]

I am not too sure, it starts as reasoning for the drop in form. If we lose a game it is down to budget and investment.

For me it's one of the key things to judge a manager by.
Once he has had a couple of transfer Windows to assemble his own squad. If he isn't finishing where the budget should have you finish, he is under performing.
If he is finishing above that position he is over achieving.
If our player budget is the as Waggot previously said the same, for me next year if TM doesn't get 8th-6th questions will need to be asked.

 

[Grendel]

For me it's one of the key things to judge a manager by.
Once he has had a couple of transfer Windiws to assemble his own squad. If he isn't finishing where the budget should have you finish he is under performing.
If he is finishing above that position he is over achieving.
If our player budget is the as Waggot said, for me next year if TM doesn't get 8th-6th questions will need to be asked.

The trolling continues it's great - keep going.

 

[Nick]

For me it's one of the key things to judge a manager by.
Once he has had a couple of transfer Windiws to assemble his own squad. If he isn't finishing where the budget should have you finish he is under performing.
If he is finishing above that position he is over achieving.
If our player budget is the as Waggot said, for me next year if TM doesn't get 8th-6th questions will need to be asked.

He has had 2 windows.

You would think the best managers would be the ones who can manager their budgets best and get the best out of what they have.

The bad ones would just moan they haven't got unlimited money when they lose to teams who have much lower budgets.

 

[dongonzalos]

He has had 2 windows.

You would think the best managers would be the ones who can manager their budgets best and get the best out of what they have.

The bad ones would just moan they haven't got unlimited money when they lose to teams who have much lower budgets.

Yes I agree with you

Personally I would give someone two summers unless the squad and performances hasn't improved at all after the first summer.

 

[dongonzalos]

The trolling continues it's great - keep going.

From the Pele of Trolling I will take that as a compliment

 

[dongonzalos]

I was just impressed we got 15 pages out of something no one knows the exact truth about. Still we can argue well over supposition

I think we do know the truth.

Unless SISU decided to underestimate the playing budget in relation to other clubs, when discussing it in the public domain.
(I can't see any reason for them to do that. )
So unless you can tell me why they would.
I am happy we know where we sit in terms of player budget. (Not above 6th not below 8th)

 

[stupot07]

Can some who goes to the SCG ask the question please?

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[chiefdave]

Can some who goes to the SCG ask the question please?

Is the question why is there no Bovril anymore?

 

[stupot07]

Is the question why is there no Bovril anymore?

We know the answer to that. Wasps stopped doing it, Bovril isn't part of rugby tradition....

But I'm all seriousness, the SCG is tomorrow, when better to ask the question about how competitive our wage bill was/is this year.

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[dongonzalos]

We know the answer to that. Wasps stopped doing it, Bovril isn't part of rugby tradition....

But I'm all seriousness, the SCG is tomorrow, when better to ask the question about how competitive our wage bill was/is this year.

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Great idea
Would be nice for a useful question to be asked and hopefully answered.
Where will our player budget sit next year in relation to other clubs?
Will it be reduced as a result of the miscalculation over the 11k and 14k ?

 

[chiefdave]

Will it be reduced as a result of the miscalculation over the 11k and 14k ?

I'd be interested to know what caused such a large miscalculation.

 

[Brylowes]

I'd be interested to know what caused such a large miscalculation.

For a hedge fund/large companies this is basic stuff,does anyone really believe they mis-calculated

 

[Grendel]

For a hedge fund/large companies this is basic stuff,does anyone really believe they mis-calculated

It's nothing to do with a hedge fund but the person doing a calculation.

The probability is we over spent and actually went over budget and had to sell to avoid an embargo which is funny as 8th to 6th probably ended up 5th to 3rd

And we will finish 12th to 11th

 

[dongonzalos]

I'd be interested to know what caused such a large miscalculation.

I know it seems a bit crazy to be nearly 30 % out.

 

[Grendel]

I know it seems a bit crazy to be nearly 30 % out.

It's clearly overspend

 

[dongonzalos]

It's nothing to do with a hedge fund but the person doing a calculation.

The probability is we over spent and actually went over budget and had to sell to avoid an embargo which is funny as 8th to 6th probably ended up 5th to 3rd

And we will finish 12th to 11th

I think we went over budget as well. (Obviously just a guess) leading to the Maddison sale.
I just hope his sale leads to a top 4 player budget this season.

 

[Grendel]

I think we went over budget as well. (Obviously just a guess) leading to the Maddison sale.
I just hope his sale leads to a top 4 player budget this season.

Why? We had it by default this season and still achieved nothing.

 

[chiefdave]

For a hedge fund/large companies this is basic stuff,does anyone really believe they mis-calculated

Given that around the same time this came to light Waggott and Brookfield both got the push it seems plausible but I'd like to hear what they say.

 

[stupot07]

I'd be interested to know what caused such a large miscalculation.

Given that around the same time this came to light Waggott and Brookfield both got the push it seems plausible but I'd like to hear what they say.

Waggott and brookfield made a boo boo. My guess a mixture of more STs at a cheaper price, more match day ticket sales at a lower price, less sponsorship and overspending.

They woukd have been the people tasked by SISU to forecast and set the proposed budget. They should be the ones taking the blame for the cock up.


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[dongonzalos]

Why? We had it by default this season and still achieved nothing.

That's a guess to be fair. The official line is 8th-6th.
If a squad that only just survived relegation last season. Moves up to 13th-9th this season with such a budget.
Hopefully another budget of similar or more will lead to 6th-2nd next season

 

[sbadey]

Why? We had it by default this season and still achieved nothing.

It has been said on here we got 1mil up front in the Madders deal, so surely another 1 to 2 mil is payable when he goes to Norwich in the summer, also the compo we are due for Sambo going from all of which 60% should go to playing budget, add that to projected ST sales and match day ticket sales I would be very surprised if we DIDNT have a higher playing budget next season IMO.

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[Gazolba]

It has been said on here we got 1mil up front in the Madders deal, so surely another 1 to 2 mil is payable when he goes to Norwich in the summer, also the compo we are due for Sambo going from all of which 60% should go to playing budget, add that to projected ST sales and match day ticket sales I would be very surprised if we DIDNT have a higher playing budget next season IMO.

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Shouldn't the majority of the Maddison and Sambou money go to the academy?
After all, they were developed by the academy not by the first team.
We wont keep producing money-making assets unless the money is reinvested where it was generated.

 

[Brylowes]

Why? We had it by default this season and still achieved nothing.

So the person who only deals in facts, is in fact happy to deal in guesswork and supposition
when it suits.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Bottom line is we don't know and to be honest its academic. It isn't the amount/ranking that is important or some FL calculation it is how the amount available is utilised that counts and to be honest some of the signings this year do not seem to me to have been anything close to good acquisitions

I think the FL monitor the SCMP calculation and it is that which is ranked with other clubs not the full budget for the company

The Maddison money. I know people are expecting large amounts to come in but. I suspect part of the down payment was not cash but the loan of the Norwich player back to us. In any case a chunk of the money seems to have been utilised in repaying the owners short term loan - still £500k to repay. In addition if they have overspent they will need to recoup that either this financial year or next. Add to that the fact that they retain costs but have little income May June & July then even if the SCMP calculation is inflated by the sale it looks to me that the actual cash available will take some big hits before it is spent on players

Also a lot of the Maddison money is based on what ifs and maybes so until received those what ifs & maybes do not count in the SCMP calculation. Not to mention the agents fees to pay out