Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes of course. The Tory press absolutely loved adored and never mocked Milliband.
If Corbyn was bad for the Labour Party the overwhelmingly right-wing press would not be complaining about him as loudly as they are.
It was Brown and Miliband who were a disaster for the Labour Party and there is every reason to think their preferred successor would be too.
The Tory press absolutely loved adored and never mocked Milliband.
Let's deal with the policies.
Well, firstly let's deal with the way this election has been conducted. I resent the implication nobody but morons and Tory supporters seeking to sabotage the election would vote for somebody in the Labour Party who supports the Labour movement. This from the start makes the whole thing seem like an attempted stitch-up by a political elite that has maybe gone wrong; it also shows an unwillingness from the other candidates to even entertain the thought that there is an underbelly of disenfranchised Labour sympathisers that they might want to reconvert to Labour voters.
Let's also deal with the 'centre'. Somebody (I forget who) said quite correctly in my view that you don't aim for the centre, you aim to bring the centre towards you. For better or worse, that was Thatcher's achievement - she managed through force of personality to move the centre ground more right than it had been... so much so that it's arguable Ted Heath was more left wing than Kendall (who, incidentally, is no credible alternative - she should be in the Tory Party!).
I resent the negative campaigning of Corbyn's rivals, who focus on his failings rather than their successes and future strategies. It's a microcosm of the ya boo of Westminster, where it's hard to know what a party actually stands *for* until it ends up having to implement its policies in government.
Now, onto Corbyn. Who has at least focussed on what he stands for. He will, ultimately, stand or fall on that, and that's admirable.
Of his policies, I have no problem with putting the means of production back in the hands of the workers, I have no problem with tax rises to pay for public spending. I also have little issue with an attempt to rebalance the political equilibrium. It's time for people to be offered a choice come an election rather than red and blue sides of the same coin.
I do have an issue with his quantitative easing for public works. This does seem slightly dangerous, and could generate rather extreme inflationary and debt pressures. I'd certainly like him to look at that again, or at least give more justification as to how that might work.
As for the man... I am not convinced he has the force of personality, like Thatcher, like Wilson, to move the centre ground towards him. This, ultimately, is the issue. The irony is that his rivals give him the prominance by focussing on him, and not themselves.
When it was Blair and his rivals throwng the brickbats, then I dismiss them with scorn. Brown, however, I credit with being a rather deeper thinker, and to the left of them anyway. He maybe makes me pause for thought more. (the irony is, Brown at his pomp probably did have the force of personality to move the political ground. That he lost this opportunity is his biggest failing)
But, the more I am told only idiots would vote for Corbyn, the more I wish I had registered to vote for. The sad thing would be if another member won this election and attempted to repress the left of the party again. There is a place for certain left leaning policies to work in a state, there is certainly a place for left leaning policies to be heard in the Labour Party!
They mocked every Labour leader I can remember, from Harold Wilson onwards. It didn't necessarily stop them from winning elections.
My membership card states:
"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few.Where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect."
Going by that it looks like three of the candidates shouldn't be standingm anyway, the only one who seems to have any inkling what the Labour Party is, or rather, should, be about is Jeremy Corbyn, which is where my vote is going.
The only thing likely to destroy the Labour Party is the PLP, with idiots such as Danzcuk already talking about a coup if Corbyn wins.
I think you will find the Sun actually supported Labour for a decade.
Is that why it was the most successful period in labours political history ?They supported "New Labour" which was the very antithesis of everything the traditional Labour Party stood for.
Is that why it was the most successful period in labours political history ?
I am voting
Cooper
Burnham
Kendall
Corbyn.
Labour party has always left the country in a better state, reference public goods and infrastructure. Tories always eat away at everything ordinary and non property owning people have struggled for.
That's not what I'm saying through NW.
Take, for example, something like music management. The whole industry functioned perfectly well for decades without degree courses. People would learn on the job as it was something they had a passion for and work their way up. Now the number of graduates outweighs the number of available positions by thousands to one.
The result is there are now far less jobs in the industry available as many positions which were formerly full time salaried positions are now staffed by a never ending rotation of unpaid interns. So you've got thousands of people with a degree that's pretty much useless and tens of thousands of debt.
Minimum wage, sure start, investment in schools and the building of state of the art hospitals last time. What state do you think Walsgrave hospital would be in by now if we had had only Tories in power? A disgrace, is my bet.
In 2010 the global economic crisis meant the Labour government bailed the banks ans saved the country from a deep and catastrophic recession. It is ironic, of course, that many people are now sitting in houses they would have lost and in jobs they would have lost if Labour had done what the Americans did and let some of it go broke. Tories cleverly twisted this to make it look as if Labour had caused rather than fixed the problem.
Before that that Labour always built houses for ordinary people, brought in progressive taxes, gave trade unions negotiating rights etc. the erosion of all of this is what has put the country into reverse.
Agree the funding was Tory-lite. They should have used direct taxation to fund it. Eg. They should have revalued council tax and added layers above the top payers now. In London people in around £6m houses pay same council tax as those in £60m houses. Land tax should also have been adopted.I went to Corbyn's meeting in Coventry. He was very critical of PFI, the funding method used to build the University Hospital Coventry. Massive PFI contracts are sucking the country & in particular the NHS dry and that was down to that Prescott, Milburn, Brown and the rest of his don't give a stuff for the future gang. Mind you it was Major who brought it in, but Labour who went OTT on it (as usual).
Corbyn will definitely shakes things up.
I think his activism, the way he takes to the streets and gets involved in grassroots issues, will catch the current tide in which many people are sick of the slick, vacuous politicians like Cameron who do smooth talk but believe in and do very little. He will catch the mood so let's enjoy the ride.
So Jeremy Corbyn it is, nearly 59.5% of the vote in the first round.
Burnhan 19%
Cooper 17%
Kendall 4.5%
Tom Watson is deputy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Don't worry! With Labour now out of the picture we can all rally round UKIP. Yay!
Farage for next PM and with it, a new Britain dawns! Can't wait!!
Corbyn against the twat Johnson should be a fantastic battle for pm in a few years
The death of democracyThis is the death of democracy.
I will give Corbyn 6 months max.
It's going to be hilarious.
The death of democracyinterestingly I was listening to a professor of ancient history at brum university this morning (open day for my eldest) and he was talking about the Persians attempting to end the first democracy against the athenians at the battle of marathon. They lost, I hardly think the labour party electing a 66 year old as leader is going to succeed where they failed.
Didn't realise he is 66.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
This is the death of democracy.
I will give Corbyn 6 months max.
It's going to be hilarious.
The death of democracyinterestingly I was listening to a professor of ancient history at brum university this morning (open day for my eldest) and he was talking about the Persians attempting to end the first democracy against the athenians at the battle of marathon. They lost, I hardly think the labour party electing a 66 year old as leader is going to succeed where they failed.
Either way it would have ended the first democracy. I'm no expert in ancient history just relaying what the professor said.Don't think it was about democracy, more about shoring up the eastern part of Persian empire after expansion into a formerly Greek sphere of influence, the Greeks had been supporting Ionian revolts since the Persians conquered it.
* Ionia, on East Med coast of modern day Turkey, the bit nearest Athens.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?