It will pause the killing. It'll be a temporary ceasefire in all but name really - like the Budapest Memorandum and Minsk Agreements, amongst many other treaties or agreements they have violated.
Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (29 Viewers)
- Thread starter tisza
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It will pause the killing. It'll be a temporary ceasefire in all but name really - like the Budapest Memorandum and Minsk Agreements, amongst many other treaties or agreements they have violated.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Well one alternative is that we carry on doing what we were doing and Trump doesn’t bend over for a dictator. Mental I know.
If you think leaving the Ukrainians to be killed, raped and kidnapped by a psycho is some great humanitarian effort I’m not sure what to say TBH.
Every Putin expert says he respects force and nothing else. And that he won’t be able to believe what he’s managed to get out of Trump. But you seem to know better and think this time if we just give in he’ll go away. How did that work in 2014?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I've said before I'd be OK with allowing rUkraine into NATO as a safeguard against future Russian invasions. Otherwise, what is stopping one?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Carry on doing what we have been doing? - Hundreds of thousands have been killed.
Leave them to be killed, raped, and kidnapped? - What is happening right now?
You are suggesting military action against Russia in all but name there. That isn't realistic. You haven't got a credible alternative here, so you don't really have any ground to stand on in telling people an 'attempt' (I use this loosely as it indeed may not work) at peace talks isn't a good idea.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It won’t stop it
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I've asked you this before: why hasn't Russia invaded Estonia?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Because it’s unimportant
You do understand that invading a NATO country doesn’t mean that any other member has to support it?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If that is the case then Ukraine joining it should be of no concern
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And neither can you! That’s the entire point.
It's readily available to view, it's not some secret document:
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
No it isn't the point. You came at me for giving a transparent opinion that the only way to stop the war is an attempt at peace talks, which involve measures to stop Putin doing it again put into them. It might not work, indeed, but there is no other option.
What you are saying is that I am wrong and that it should essentially be allowed to carry on with the war, as it is, and let thousands more die.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You’re suggesting something that won’t work then saying everyone else’s ideas won’t work so it has to be yours. I could do the same. Your idea also leads to thousands dying. You don’t have some magical no harm solution no matter how much you keep repeating that you do. Russian rule of Ukrainian territory will continue to be brutal and Russia will continue trying to destabilise and ultimately take over the country because that’s their aim.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I'm suggesting trying something different to what is happening now, which has led to hundreds of thousands of people being killed. That's it.
You want to let it carry on, with absolutely no end in sight.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Geeza is a legend, no doubt it will have the snowflakes rattled
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No U. You’re suggesting giving Russians free rein basically. Let them keep what they have occupied, keep raping, killing and kidnapping Ukrainians in those territories and providing no security guarantees so that they can come back and finish the job in a few more years. You’ve got this fantasy that giving in will mean no more deaths for some reason.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
I’m not shocked to see you don’t want peace and a war killing thousands over, doesn’t surprise me one bit! You seriously need a break from this forum, on it day and night 24/7 do you not think that’s a bit sad?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Where have I said any of that?
I think you have taken what you have read on Reddit and just projected that onto me!
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Ignore him he’s as clueless about this as he is about the football side of things
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I don’t go on Reddit. Though your views are standard “I’ve been consuming Russian propaganda” stuff. But you keep saying you want to stop “hundreds of thousands being killed” and then suggesting giving an aggressor free rein to carry on just people should stop trying to stop them. It’s fantasy. And that’s even if you think the Ukrainians are just going to go “OK Trump made a deal I won’t fight back when someone tries to take my home”. I mean come on!
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Again, I haven't said any of this!
What's fantasy is expecting military action to Stop Russia, or to expect that the current status-quo is better than any attempts at peace talks.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Is this a reference to Ukraine?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It was stopping Russia. It was supposed to take three days remember. They burned through half their military without any NATO boots on the ground.
And what peace talks? Talks involves both sides. This is just Trump giving Putin whatever he asks for.
Actual peace talks happen when both sides have leverage as people have been saying from the start.
He has stated numerous times he has no issue with Ukraine ceasing to exist and is perfectly happy to hand it over to Russia.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What I actually want is for Russia to withdraw from all the land, pay reparations and hand over Putin to be tried for war crimes in the same dock as Netanyahu. Clearly that is entirely unrealistic and a substantial compromise on it would be to allow Putin to keep the land he's stolen, forgo any reparations, forgive him of war crimes and in return just allow Ukraine to join NATO as a safeguard against future violence.
Yet even that is seen as not enough of a bone to offer Putin.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
The State Department never placed an order, the Biden administration asked the State Department to explore armoured vehicle options. “However,” the spokesperson added, “the solicitation is on hold and there are no current plans to issue it.”
State Department says Tesla wasn't a awarded $400M contract to produce 'armored' cars
A State Department budget document set off a wave of speculation about a deal.
www.nbcnews.com
What about its right to make international alliances of its choosing? Seems like a pretty basic tenet of national sovereignty.