Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (30 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Ever been a more cynical and obvious abuse of the Presidential pardon than what has happened over last few days? God knows who is next.

Mannafort for fucks sake.
The amount of Trumps circle who've ended up in jail is incredible.
I bet he doesn't pardon Cohen.

 

---

[tisza]

Mannafort for fucks sake.
The amount of Trumps circle who've ended up in jail is incredible.
I bet he doesn't pardon Cohen.

The political ones are bad enough but those Blackwater security personnel pardoned for massacring civilians - words fail me

 

[clint van damme]

The political ones are bad enough but those Blackwater security personnel pardoned for massacring civilians - words fail me

That was unbelievable.
Though for me, Mannafort enabled corruption on a mass scale in Uukraine that lead to many deaths. I appreciate a lot of people dont look at it like that but to me he's a scumbag.

 

[Grendel]

Ever been a more cynical and obvious abuse of the Presidential pardon than what has happened over last few days? God knows who is next.

I would say the pardon given to Nixon was somewhat worse

 

[shmmeee]

I would say the pardon given to Nixon was somewhat worse

You’d be wrong.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well at least he’s kept his promise to drain the swamp. If the swamp was US prisons.

 

[Grendel]

You’d be wrong.

Nixon was pardoned to avoid the ensuing scandal getting aired in public. It destroyed Fords presidency

 

[shmmeee]

Nixon was pardoned to avoid the ensuing scandal getting aired in public. It destroyed Fords presidency

Nixon was pardoned to move the country past the whole debacle. What it did to Fords presidency is irrelevant, it was done with the national interest at heart. Trumps are pure personal gain.

 

[Grendel]

Nixon was pardoned to move the country past the whole debacle. What it did to Fords presidency is irrelevant, it was done with the national interest at heart. Trumps are pure personal gain.

I think you will find the news coverage at the time thought different

Didn’t Clinton pardon some fraudster who was a significant donor to his campaigns?

 

[shmmeee]

I think you will find the news coverage at the time thought different

Didn’t Clinton pardon some fraudster who was a significant donor to his campaigns?

I doubt Trump will be writing anything like this though: Opinion | My Reasons for the Pardons (Published 2001)

The entire pardon system makes a mockery of the justice system, I’m just saying that these Trump ones are all either favours for people (Blsckwater) or people connected with his own criminal endeavours, which considering pardoning yourself isn’t supposed to be done seems to go against the spirit of the law.

 

[tisza]

I think you will find the news coverage at the time thought different

Didn’t Clinton pardon some fraudster who was a significant donor to his campaigns?

Clinton was another one. The campaign donor, his drug dealing "brother" and some terrorists.

 

[Grendel]

I doubt Trump will be writing anything like this though: Opinion | My Reasons for the Pardons (Published 2001)

The entire pardon system makes a mockery of the justice system, I’m just saying that these Trump ones are all either favours for people (Blsckwater) or people connected with his own criminal endeavours, which considering pardoning yourself isn’t supposed to be done seems to go against the spirit of the law.

Oh I agree the pardon system has no place in a democracy it’s the sort of thing you’d expect in a banana republic

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

American politics is rank with corruption on both sides of the aisle because they have allowed lobbyists and donors free rein to hand over anything in exchange for favourable legislation. Trump filling the swamp with a hose is just another extension

 

[shmmeee]

American politics is rank with corruption on both sides of the aisle because they have allowed lobbyists and donors free rein to hand over anything in exchange for favourable legislation. Trump filling the swamp with a hose is just another extension

Don’t buy this both sidesism TBH. Had this argument with “centrist” Yanks. Trump was a step change in levels of both incompetence and corruption and support for him falls outside the party political model. It’s support for something other than liberal democracy.

This “they’re all corrupt” meme has just led to a weakening of public standards and a free pass for loons and autocrats. In much the same way the “everything is racist” meme has blunted anti racist efforts. Some things are worse than other things and that doesn’t make the other things good things just not as bad as the worse things and politics is nothing but those choices.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don’t buy this both sidesism TBH. Had this argument with “centrist” Yanks. Trump was a step change in levels of both incompetence and corruption and support for him falls outside the party political model. It’s support for something other than liberal democracy.

This “they’re all corrupt” meme has just led to a weakening of public standards and a free pass for loons and autocrats. In much the same way the “everything is racist” meme has blunted anti racist efforts. Some things are worse than other things and that doesn’t make the other things good things just not as bad as the worse things and politics is nothing but those choices.

The NRA’s lobbying of Republican politicians has held back gun reform for decades. Health insurance companies and big pharma have been donating mega bucks to Democratic politicians to prevent single payer or more ambitious health systems being implemented. The behemoth that is the military industrial complex has again lobbied its way to obscene contracts long before Trump was on the scene. On the Democratic side again you had the infamous saga over Hillary’s paid private speeches by Goldman Sachs. At the time they said openly they had given her a green light to make some digs in public because they knew she was really on their side.

The US has been an oligarchy for a long time. Electing a billionaire reality show host was just the icing on the cake. Both sides allow lobbyists and special interests to dictate what they do in government. In a month Trump will be gone but the rank corruption will still be there.

 

[shmmeee]

The NRA’s lobbying of Republican politicians has held back gun reform for decades. Health insurance companies and big pharma have been donating mega bucks to Democratic politicians to prevent single payer or more ambitious health systems being implemented. The behemoth that is the military industrial complex has again lobbied its way to obscene contracts long before Trump was on the scene. On the Democratic side again you had the infamous saga over Hillary’s paid private speeches by Goldman Sachs. At the time they said openly they had given her a green light to make some digs in public because they knew she was really on their side.

The US has been an oligarchy for a long time. Electing a billionaire reality show host was just the icing on the cake. Both sides allow lobbyists and special interests to dictate what they do in government. In a month Trump will be gone but the rank corruption will still be there.

Yeah of course, but Trump tripled down on that normal corruption and added in some downright criminality and dangerous breaking of political and social norms that the country may never recover from. Lobbyists are one thing, attempted coups and support for white nationalist militia another.

Of course the status quo needs improving, but that doesn’t mean it can’t get worse.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah of course, but Trump tripled down on that normal corruption and added in some downright criminality and dangerous breaking of political and social norms that the country may never recover from. Lobbyists are one thing, attempted coups and support for white nationalist militia another.

Of course the status quo needs improving, but that doesn’t mean it can’t get worse.

He was bad, but in a month he's gone. His problem is that he kept saying the quiet part loud whereas the ones before him were smart enough to keep things under wraps. His anti-truth, anti-evidence, anti-expert slant that he has brought tens of millions of people along with will I agree cause lasting damage.

Let's not forget though that after 2008 the crooks who caused the crash were not only allowed to walk free but got huge pay offs and the firms allowed to help themselves to the public purse. Trump is entertaining the idea of pardoning himself (!) but it has been bad long before he showed up. In fact you could argue, he wouldn't be there in the first place if the corruption hadn't been so entrenched to begin with.

 

[tisza]

He was bad, but in a month he's gone. His problem is that he kept saying the quiet part loud whereas the ones before him were smart enough to keep things under wraps. His anti-truth, anti-evidence, anti-expert slant that he has brought tens of millions of people along with will I agree cause lasting damage.

Let's not forget though that after 2008 the crooks who caused the crash were not only allowed to walk free but got huge pay offs and the firms allowed to help themselves to the public purse. Trump is entertaining the idea of pardoning himself (!) but it has been bad long before he showed up. In fact you could argue, he wouldn't be there in the first place if the corruption hadn't been so entrenched to begin with.

Let's face it once he's gone the next few years are going to see a mountain of information from the inside being revealed about his Presidency.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This from Trump about insisting on a $2,000 universal payment instead of the $600 his aides persuaded him to adopt instead shows what a great missed opportunity his presidency was. His instincts are right, but he's far too stupid and too much of a narcissist craving approval from those around him to stick to them. Though it is too late in the game for him, it does still force Republicans to argue against giving more money to their constituents.

$2,000 Stimulus Check Update: House Democrats to Put Forward Trump's Proposal for Vote (msn.com)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let's face it once he's gone the next few years are going to see a mountain of information from the inside being revealed about his Presidency.

He made a lot of enemies who will only be too happy to make some easy money and publicity from spilling the dirt. My point is, vast numbers of the politicians below him will still be helping themselves to a rotten system long after he has gone. And going 'yeah but I'm not Trump' doesn't make it right. Biden will undo the more insane moves from Trump's administration but looking at his Cabinet picks so far, it will basically be a reset to 2016. In which case, Trump 2.0 will be back in '24

 

[tisza]

He made a lot of enemies who will only be too happy to make some easy money and publicity from spilling the dirt. My point is, vast numbers of the politicians below him will still be helping themselves to a rotten system long after he has gone. And going 'yeah but I'm not Trump' doesn't make it right. Biden will undo the more insane moves from Trump's administration but looking at his Cabinet picks so far, it will basically be a reset to 2016. In which case, Trump 2.0 will be back in '24

Whilst you have a system where money can basically buy all sorts of positions ( and the huge amount of money paid to and used by lobbyists ) you have a system open to abuse and corruption. You mentioned NRA - around 75 million to Trump and Republican campaigns 2020 alone.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Whilst you have a system where money can basically buy all sorts of positions ( and the huge amount of money paid to and used by lobbyists ) you have a system open to abuse and corruption. You mentioned NRA - around 75 million to Trump and Republican campaigns 2020 alone.

The NRA pretty much exclusively donate to Republicans. Which is why even though practically all Americans support things like universal background checks on guns, the legislation will never change. Corruption is that country's biggest obstacle to progress. When they do things like direct ballot initiatives and let voters choose the policy direction, it ends up favour of more progressive outcomes.

 

[shmmeee]

The NRA pretty much exclusively donate to Republicans. Which is why even though practically all Americans support things like universal background checks on guns, the legislation will never change. Corruption is that country's biggest obstacle to progress. When they do things like direct ballot initiatives and let voters choose the policy direction, it ends up favour of more progressive outcomes.

Yeah while we’re over here with a monarchy, hereditary peers, and basically rich landowners running the show as they have got hundreds of years, I won’t be too quick to criticise the yanks.

The only thing that’s stopped us becoming them is the spending and media rules. Now the internet has made all that moot and Turning Point and Prager U can go direct I suspect we aren’t far behind. After all, we’re just about to crash the economy so a few old boys can get rich.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Surely this is illegal!!!

 

[shmmeee]

Surely this is illegal!!!

I don’t get what his end game is. He’s lost. He’s going to have to leave in a few weeks. What’s he going to do then? The courts won’t hear his nonsense. Only thing left will be popular support.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don’t get what his end game is. He’s lost. He’s going to have to leave in a few weeks. What’s he going to do then? The courts won’t hear his nonsense. Only thing left will be popular support.

Countryside tour stoking up hatred of everyone who doesn’t proclaim him king

 

[shmmeee]

Countryside tour stoking up hatred of everyone who doesn’t proclaim him king

I worry for his fans it won’t end at rallies.

 

[clint van damme]

I don’t get what his end game is. He’s lost. He’s going to have to leave in a few weeks. What’s he going to do then? The courts won’t hear his nonsense. Only thing left will be popular support.

Still think he's trying to get Biden to give him a pass on further prosecution.
He's got the Manhattan tax case, the Russia stuff and now they reckon they'll be stuff that comes out in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial so he's potentially in a lot of shit.

 

[skybluetony176]

Still think he's trying to get Biden to give him a pass on further prosecution.
He's got the Manhattan tax case, the Russia stuff and now they reckon they'll be stuff that comes out in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial so he's potentially in a lot of shit.

If there’s any merit to any of those investigations Biden needs to let them run. If he pardons him the Trump cult will say, told you so, he’s innocent and it’s all a stitch up. If he doesn’t pardon him and Trump is successfully prosecuted then the Trump cult will be claiming he’s a political prisoner and it was all a set up. Biden won’t win either way with the cult. However, there’s no denying that there’s millions of people that voted Trump who aren’t in the cult and are reasonable people when presented with facts. Biden owes it to them to let them know the facts, whatever they might be.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If there’s any merit to any of those investigations Biden needs to let them run. If he pardons him the Trump cult will say, told you so, he’s innocent and it’s all a stitch up. If he doesn’t pardon him and Trump is successfully prosecuted then the Trump cult will be claiming he’s a political prisoner and it was all a set up. Biden won’t win either way with the cult. However, there’s no denying that there’s millions of people that voted Trump who aren’t in the cult and are reasonable people when presented with facts. Biden owes it to them to let them know the facts, whatever they might be.

The most promising cases against him are in fact state cases rather than federal ones. Even if he tries pardon shenanigans they won’t apply for those

 

[shmmeee]

This is excellent on why Biden won: Why did the 'terrible candidate' win?

Some reminders of basic political lessons here. Especially liked this bit:



It’s also why I think Starmer is smart. You can be a lot more radical with policy once you’ve built your image as sensible and moderate. We’ll see when the manifesto hit in three/four years but if he’s doing it right Labour can offer policy similar to Corbynism without the attacks landing with the public.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is excellent on why Biden won: Why did the 'terrible candidate' win?

Some reminders of basic political lessons here. Especially liked this bit:

View attachment 18033

It’s also why I think Starmer is smart. You can be a lot more radical with policy once you’ve built your image as sensible and moderate. We’ll see when the manifesto hit in three/four years but if he’s doing it right Labour can offer policy similar to Corbynism without the attacks landing with the public.

Clenches teeth...really clenches teeth....

 

[clint van damme]

This is excellent on why Biden won: Why did the 'terrible candidate' win?

Some reminders of basic political lessons here. Especially liked this bit:

View attachment 18033

It’s also why I think Starmer is smart. You can be a lot more radical with policy once you’ve built your image as sensible and moderate. We’ll see when the manifesto hit in three/four years but if he’s doing it right Labour can offer policy similar to Corbynism without the attacks landing with the public.

Starmer has already got a lot of issues on his plate.
His Brexit stance has got the FBPE mob up in arms.
The people who plotted against their party's own leader, then told the left they needed to support the leader or they would be enabling the tories are now in revolt against that leader!

Personally, though no fan of Starmer I think he's called it right to support the deal.
There are those that say if he supports it he can't criticise it going forward but if I were him the 'let's level up Britain' rhetoric will give him a far more fertile line of attack because we know it's not going to happen and he can make an issue of the Tories betraying the 'red wall'.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

$2,000 stimulus cheque has passed the HoR, now goes to the Senate. Bernie saying he will force the Senate to remain in session if McConnell refuses to stage the vote.

 

[wingy]

FFS.

Trump election lawyer Lin Wood calls for Pence to be ‘executed by firing squad’

Attorney makes baseless claims against George Soros and Bill Gates

www.independent.co.uk