Is that around the level of current losses?
Trust statement regarding the AHC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter CJ_covblaze
- Start date
But does it if all that is used to plug losses when there is a free pool or relatively cheap source of talent to pluck from others development?
Edit :-Oh. Senior moment
I think there are 3-4 pitches at Ryton that could be utilised also if upgraded.
Forgot to add at our current level are we able to attract either good enough talent or Indeed the physical specimens required for this division?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
And if our players go elsewhere, like Sambou has, we get less compensation for being a lower grade academy. So it will cost more to run and we'll get less money back.
My post above kind of suggests the level we play at dictates what we get when selling.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I think that's where the long term comes in. We've done... alright with our academy recently. And showing a path beaten by Wilson and Maddison helps. hell, even Bigi and Thomas are 'successes' in that respect, in that they got a chance at bigger clubs thanks to their time with us.
What botheres me more is the likes of Phillips. To a degree we always need backups who won't be superstars, and that's where an academy's useful (more loyalty to the club who brought you up, cheaper wages and the like), but if the likes of Phillips end up not rated by the manager good enough to be reserve right back then... that's where you wonder about the point of it all.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What's the score with the connection these days? Has it gone?
Never hear or see it promoted in the media, for eons now.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yeah I get that, I suppose that was my point. You need cat 2 status so you get the money in, you need the facilities (floodlights, indoor pitch, etc) to not only get the money but also to enable coaching time all year around, you're not going to deliver a £1.1m cat 2 standard academt including coaching hours, etc when you are only getting £200k grant and don't have access to the facilities needed to deliver the coaching all year round.
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Still there, don't think the club has owned it for many years.
http://www.sportsconnexion.co.uk/contact-us/
http://www.sportsconnexion.co.uk/about-us/
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Had to sell it when JH lost money with Washington Diplomats.
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albatross
Well-Known Member
I get where you are coming from and I would like to retain the Cat 2 status but i really believe the club is strapped for cash and needs to save money and that is what this is all about.
In order to get the £500k grant you have to spend £600k. The first team wage budget is under constraint, no money from the owners so if the club can free up £400k of the £600k for the first team then on last seasons performance that might be just that extra bit of quality required for promotion to the championship Thats £400k that is taken away from funding the clubs core activity and what brings in the supporters , better players and in turn young players to the club. Beginning to move us out of his mess.
So progress with the first team has to be the priority and that in turn will drive additional revenue which at a later stage could be put back into the academy.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I get get that, but if you drop the academy, you're not going to 9-10 back up players of quality coming through, people like kelly-evens, George Thomas, etc will be on significantly less than signing players on loan or first team pro's to be back up. The academt is paying for itself.
And what you're saying is very short termist. The academy and sbitc is also very important for engaging young fans, my 5 year old goes to the Saturday club and idolises James maddison and he gets the link of starting with sbitc, practicing getting better and if good enough 1 day playing for Coventry. Kids identify with the youngsters that have come through the academy.
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albatross
Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100%
I am not advocating the reclassification as yes it is short term, but what isn't about CCFC these days. I am just putting an alternative point of view as I genuinely believe that the club want to do this to save money. With the Wasps academy they have an opportunity to do it and point the finger else where. I strongly suspect that the club will be unable to reach an agreement with Wasps and will go to cat 3.
The real statement of intent from CCFC will be if they start to let some of the academy staff go or make them part time. SISU have said no more money, stand or fall with the money you get in. I really believe that it has come to the dismantling of the fabric of CCFC to allow them to survive.
Sad days
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But it generates far more than £600K in player sales. Not to mention a good chunk of our squad are academy graduates. Lose our status and it will be harder to recruit players.
albatross
Well-Known Member
OK CD. Your point raises some interesting questions with me.
CA has to make the decisions on how to use his available budget.
Do you want a club that has a successful first team or do you want a club that has a CAT 2 academy and sells all the best young players to support an ailing club?
If you have to support TM to move up the leagues, bring in the crowds would you gamble that extra bit to get him there?
There is no guarantee that spending the money on the first team will get you that promotion and conversely there is no rule that says that a Cat 3 academy could not or would not produce the same crop of Calum Wilsons etc.. Very few leave from the academy most spend at leat a season in the first team squad.
Put yourself in CA Shoes what decisions would you make? Extra First team Cash for success or a Cat 2 academy? but remember the budget can only be spent once.
Its a real quandary and I don't think there is a right answer because ideally you want both but i think that is the fix the club is in.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But that isn't the option. The academy makes a profit, if you lose the academy you don't have more money to put into the first team you have less. And you also have a big hole to fill in the squad in the likely event that you don't have as many players coming through at the required level. If you're a Wilson or a Maddison are you going to join a Cat 3 academy or look elsewhere?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Or maybe the club could ask?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Would you not normally expect when someone makes you an offer for them to actually tell you what the offer is?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
You could probably build an indoor pitch if you used the spare land and knocked down what used to be the indoor cricket centre (what is that actually used for now?). But you'd only have two outdoor pitches. How close would that get us to Cat 2 requirements?
Would certainly be nice to have everything on one site and under our own control.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
It's used for 5 aside, netball, functions and a gym. Also classes, but the numbers have dropped on the football front not as many leagues now.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Is it big enough to fit a pitch that meets the requirements in or would you need to knock the building down? Will have to take a closer look at what the other requirements are.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The whole area is more than big enough including the car park.
You would have to pay a bit though I imagine.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If you could use the existing building it could probably be done relatively quickly and cheaply. If you've got to knock the building down and start again its a much bigger project.
Nick
Administrator
Unless it's just playing to the crowd
I think that is what is hurting us the most in all of this,.
Another loss of status and attachment, yet this is where we are.
Again I do think If we select Prem offcasts carefully we have the potential to generate equal transfer funds to those currently whilst someone else does the development, possibly better physical specimens than we currently attract, less diminutive.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I like the idea of an academy beside ryton.
If we were not having to build a new training facility as we keep ryton.
Could that money not be spent on the connexion and use it in the same way the Higgs centre was. A community place as well as the academy.
If the owner wanted to sell.
However even with that I would still want us to either agree long term at the Ricoh or start with a 18-23k stadium with the room to expand to 30k if the premiership dream is ever achieved.
albatross
Well-Known Member
With respect CD you did not answer my question about how you would spend the budget..... and you are not losing the academy just spending less. The club has no money and the budgets are usually set at the beginning of the season. Any kids we currently have in the academy will most likely stay over the next couple of years anyway so what exactly are you losing?
Do you preserve the status quo with the academy producing players that are then sold to balance the books while the club slowly declines? it could be argued that this Cat 2 academy has not given us anything but relegation football for the last 15+ years. I acknowledge it has produced some fine players and probably turns a profit for the club but where is it getting the first team? There is no reason that a cat 3 academy could not produce the same quality of players that have come out of the academy over the last 10. With regards to going else where Leicester and WBA regularly take kids from Coventry into their academies.
This is just an alternative view regarding the way the club might be looking at its choices. like you I would like to do both.
Do you preserve the status quo with the academy producing players that are then sold to balance the books while the club slowly declines? it could be argued that this Cat 2 academy has not given us anything but relegation football for the last 15+ years. I acknowledge it has produced some fine players and probably turns a profit for the club but where is it getting the first team? There is no reason that a cat 3 academy could not produce the same quality of players that have come out of the academy over the last 10. With regards to going else where Leicester and WBA regularly take kids from Coventry into their academies.
This is just an alternative view regarding the way the club might be looking at its choices. like you I would like to do both.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Personally I would expect that if it was this important to someone that the someone it's important to are proactive not reactive.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If the academy drops to Cat 3 you lose £250K in funding so if you want to continue to provide anything approaching the same level a further £250K a year has to be found to fund the academy. That is not money that is funding facilities, it's funding the day to day operation. If you don't find that you scale back the academy. Dropping to a Cat 3 academy will undoubtedly make it harder to recruit players, that will mean less players of the required standard for our first team and less chance of finding the next Wilson or Maddison. It also means that when academy players leave the compensation we receive will be considerably lower.
The academy also generates more than it costs to run so its not a case of saying spend £250K less on the academy and we'll have £250K extra for the first team budget (even if that would work with FFP). So no I would not divert money away from the academy to the first team.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Yes but aas a landlord myself I expect them to ask me what they get for there money.
TBF if one of my tenants says they want to leave I put it straight on the market, I don't question their right to move or why.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But lets say you overheard one of your tenants on the phone to their parents saying they hoped to one day buy the own house. Would then assume they are leaving imminently and get someone else in without asking your existing tenant what their plans are?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I know everyone focussed on down grading to cat 3 but that's not the only option is it? CA will have to consider whether keeping any academy is viable or not. They could for instance cherry pick from other academies and just operate a development squad/U21. Yes there will be compensation to pay on some of the players picked up but with the right cherry picking the added value could be just the same as academy investment. Isnt that what they have started doing with acquisitions like Jones ? Attract players by offering a clear progression to first team and good training & facilities? They have already it seems built a core development squad so it would possibly need an influx of three or four each season to keep it ticking on
They could probably run it all from Ryton and reduce the investment in staff. Facility costs could be reduced. The Academy it is argued pays for itself because of the player sales of former academy players - well you can look at it that way certainly. You could also look at it that no significant increase in value happens until the player gets in the first team and that the value added by the academy for any player is the compensation due should they move on at that stage. The real value is added by playing first team. To get that one player you have to invest in many more players for many years. It has from the figures provided cost SISU/CCFC over the last 8 years £600k pa net to fund an Academy. Whilst some players made the first team, which has been largely failing in Championship & L1, many have walked (been pushed)with no fee at the end of their contract. The two that buck the trend are Wilson & Maddison.
Then there are the youngsters to look at U8's U9's etc. Is there an option to form partnerships with organisations like Strachan Academy, Coerver etc to badge part of there work with the CCFC brand and ship the cost of actually running the Academy out to them
Just thoughts, not saying its the way to go, but what if that is the decision being made........
I am not saying this is correct, unless you have the numbers to crunch then no one knows, but CA especially in the current circumstances has to look all options
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