mmttww
Well-Known Member
This.
He can't be that bad - we have now had two finals and a semi final in 4 competitions
Plenty of supposedly good teams fall by the wayside.
Big name managers have constantly struggled to create any team spirit with England - where players egos were massaged and they were more interested in that than being committed to win
I'm sure you would be met with the same enthusiasm if during the women's euros you constantly shouted "she plays for Man Utd WOMENS", "that's a record in the WOMENS game", "Actually the men did this in 1990" etc.Imagine saying ‘what about the men’s game’ in the moments of glory for the Lionesses?
A subtext I never like about coverage of the women’s game is the cheap swipes at England’s lack of success from supporters and pundits alike. It’s jarring.
He can't be that bad - we have now had two finals and a semi final in 4 competitions
Plenty of supposedly good teams fall by the wayside.
Big name managers have constantly struggled to create any team spirit with England - where players egos were massaged and they were more interested in that than being committed to win
If we're being incredibly pedantic it would be a combination of Mowbray, Venus & SladeRussel Slade took us to the chekatrade trophy final , if we are being pedantic
So, Mowbray and Venus as the centre backs. What position did Russell Slade used to play?If we're being incredibly pedantic it would be a combination of Mowbray, Venus & Slade
His brother plays for GhanaWilliams just shouldn't be playing for Spain. It's just not right.
Oh that's fine. I don't mind that.His brother plays for Ghana
They were both born in Spain. My son said his brother plays for Ghana as he's got too much competition in Spanish squad & wouldn't get picked.Oh that's fine. I don't mind that.
Russel Slade took us to the chekatrade trophy final , if we are being pedantic
He should be congranulated on his achievements because on paper they are very good and ultimately that's all that he will be remembered by in 30 years time .
For me , I've rarely enjoyed watching Gareth southgates England .
But as I stated last night I feel that it was his best result as manager of England.
Hopefully we win Sunday
Yeah, plays on the wing as well, has actually played for Spain before switching to GhanaThey were both born in Spain. My son said his brother plays for Ghana as he's got too much competition in Spanish squad & wouldn't get picked.
What England teams did you prefer?
I enjoyed watching England under venables especially in 96 , I enjoyed watching us under Glenn hoddle tbh even if he did lose his job for being a bit of a nut case and we were a good watch under sven despite some bad fortune in major tournaments but it was an era of great teams
Different times not comparible is it .We kept losing
Different times not comparible is it .
Sven lost to a great brazil team in 2002 , and a really good Portugal team in 2 other tournaments one of which we were down to 10 men
Hoddle lost to Argentina with 10 men and venables lost a semi final to Germany
And we MUST add that the tournament format is weaker now than back then
If it’s weaker why are teams like France Germany and Netherlands long gone?
When we last reached a semi final in the World Cup we scraped out of a poor group, played a drab game against Belgium and nearly lost to Cameroon.
In 96 we drew against a low ranked Swiss side and the only real highlight was a group win vs Netherlands
We won against a Spanish side on penalties who has scraped through their group with a late win against Romania
The Czech Republic nearly beat an average German side in the final
Germany and Holland are not the sides they were , France have been woeful all tournament scoring 1 goal from open play
Tournaments today are by default weaker as they have more teams in them , diluting the quality , this is fact .
Southgate has been blessed with easy runs in every tournament , this is well known and documented .
In 2018 Southgate lost 3 matches in the world cup alone and we finished 4th ..
I have credited him with holland simply by the fact they are 7th in the world
When there were less teams in the euros powerhouses like Greece and Denmark won them
I guess the same place that powerhouses Wigan athletic were when they won the fa cup or Wimbledon or coventry city ..
And to add to your badly made point about euro 96 .
Germany Spain and Holland were all above England in the world rankings
France and Belgium are above us in the rankings now. In fact, Croatia are above Spain and Germany.
Right , what's your point ? Belgium are gash , France are pretty poor , Germany still havent got back to being good since 2014 , Spain are playing well for the first time since 2012
The top teams are shite , England should be winning things with this team
We are ranked number 3 in Europe , 1 and 2 are out so England are the highest ranked team in Europe left in the competition ..According to the rankings we shouldn’t and you keep referring to the rankings
It's incredibly hard to talk about Gareth southgate tbh .. very easy to explain what's been so unlikeable about his time as manager but very hard for some to understand it ..
Incredibly frustrating when people compare him to managers who were managing England in a far more difficult international era .. like Comparing pep guardiola at man city to kevin keegan as man city manager and suggesting they had the same circumstances .
As I've stated last night was southgates greatest result at a major tournament .. and for that he should be commended
There’s a lot of content on previous managers and the teams they managed. Players from those last teams have admitted that there were cliques and the almost didn’t like each other because of their club rivalries.
We can talk about this factor or the other, one thing everyone can agree on is that England have underachieved as a nation at major tournaments.
Harry Redknapp did a 2004 v 2024 England Euros team head-to-head and only picked Walker > Neville and Kane > Owen. Which is interesting because one of the following statements needs to be true:
1) Our class of 2024 isn’t as good as we believe, OR:
2) Our class of 2004 really was that good but they failed to reached the heights expected
Southgate’s achievements are as followed:
- changing the culture of national team, people report playing for England as a club atmosphere
- winning opening games at major tournaments
- winning KO games against top tier nations like Germany & Netherlands
- getting deep into major tournaments
- investing in the small details around penalty shootouts (learnt from 2021)
- understanding that teams need to grow into tournaments
Irrespective of what happens on Sunday, even the most ‘anti-Southgate’ person ought to agree that he’s laid the foundations to come in and improve. Apparently Lee Carsley is front runner should Southgate stand down.
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Can look at some of the teams that reached major semi finals in those so called glory years too - Sweden, Bulgaria, South Korea, Turkey... Greece winning the bloody European thing.If it’s weaker why are teams like France Germany and Netherlands long gone?
When we last reached a semi final in the World Cup we scraped out of a poor group, played a drab game against Belgium and nearly lost to Cameroon.
In 96 we drew against a low ranked Swiss side and the only real highlight was a group win vs Netherlands
We won against a Spanish side on penalties who has scraped through their group with a late win against Romania
The Czech Republic nearly beat an average German side in the final
Can look at some of the teams that reached major semi finals in those so called glory years too - Sweden, Bulgaria, South Korea, Turkey... Greece winning the bloody European thing.
The likes of Modric, De Bruyne are up there with the best of the best, it's kind of disrespectful to Croatia's achievements to decide they only did it because the competition was weaker. Only one team can win the thing and it's not like Man City where you can buy players in the positions you need... and Guardiola's tactical decisions in the Champions League final Vs Chelsea were more bizarre than anything Southgate has managed.
At the end of the day it's a knockout tournament so fine margins and luck, but Southgate's record is so consistent it deserves respect.
If football people keep referring to football teams back them having better players then they probably did have better players ..
And I can't say this again mate , there were so many good international teams compared to today , world football was filled with all time greats
Hence why it was harder for England to win tournaments .
Let's be honest Greece fluked it and were outplayed v france and Portugal but ultimately they won the games
I think there’s a hint of nostalgia clouding your judgement. 1990 and 1996, the tournaments that people older than myself cite, had some average results.
We won 6/31 opening games at major tournaments before Southgate who has won 100% of his opening games.
Let’s be honest, the standard of lower ranked teams has dramatically improved too. Whilst it’s fair to say the Euros has got ‘easier’, the World Cup has arguably got harder to win.
I find it strange that you can’t seem to state the obvious: England have been chronic underachievers.
There was also a big difference between those great Italian sides of the past who turned out 1-0s and the teams trying it now. Football is entertainment, or at least it’s supposed to be.And nostalgia ? Nothing further from the truth , world football was superb , even club football was better
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