UK Prisons (1 Viewer)

[bringbackrattles]

Programme on the telly last night about the state of British prisons. As an ex con myself, but not been back for 20 years, I'm glad I cleaned my act up as what a mess they're in now. The inmates are ruling many gaols as there aren't enough prison officers to control them, and drugs are rife and out of control. The last time I was inside drugs were just coming in, replacing tobacco as currency, so no wonder violence is so widespread inside now. But in a way the programme could be a positive thing, as anyone thinking of getting in trouble may just be scared off, as most prisons are hell holes and full of misery etc.

 

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[Nick]

Drugs will always get in, especially with things like Spice. As they train the dogs to smell it and make systems to detect it they change the ingredients a bit so it smells different. Corrupt officers getting offered stupid money to take things in, a basic iPhone is worth about a grand in there so you can see why an officer on 20k might see the appeal to take one of those in for somebody if they have money worries.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The whole system needs a massive shake-up. We lock way way too many people up in this country.

Debtors, shoplifters, drug addicts etc. can & should be helped/punished/rehabilitated within society........not locked up at a cost of £70K + per year....

Also, put a fucking net up to stop the gangs flying supplies in by drone......jeez....its not rocket science is it......

 

[richnrg]

...Also, put a fucking net up to stop the gangs flying supplies in by drone......jeez....its not rocket science is it......

You're right. Attempting to control a man made projectile whilst it flies throught the atmosphere is certainly not rocket science.

 

[bringbackrattles]

The whole system needs a massive shake-up. We lock way way too many people up in this country.

Debtors, shoplifters, drug addicts etc. can & should be helped/punished/rehabilitated within society........not locked up at a cost of £70K + per year....

Also, put a fucking net up to stop the gangs flying supplies in by drone......jeez....its not rocket science is it......

Looking back at my time in prison I was celled up with all sorts of people. One bloke got 7 years for threatening his ex girlfriend on the phone, she reported him and he got sent down,his first offence. Another prisoner nicked money from a place where he worked, about a hundred quid, he got two years. Strange sentences really, to me they seemed too harsh for the crimes. As one chap I was in with who got moved out the cell after just two days, I found out he was doing six months for sexually assaulting his daughter, so he got moved to the "nonce wing " segregation, now he should have got life !

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

There's an upsurge in 'taking the mat' now too. Prisons becoming ideal spots for recruiting potential terrorists.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

You're right. Attempting to control a man made projectile whilst it flies throught the atmosphere is certainly not rocket science.

damn my oversight...the omission of a winking or lol emoji........and now the joke is yours.....

 

[Covstu]

Looking back at my time in prison I was celled up with all sorts of people. One bloke got 7 years for threatening his ex girlfriend on the phone, she reported him and he got sent down,his first offence. Another prisoner nicked money from a place where he worked, about a hundred quid, he got two years. Strange sentences really, to me they seemed too harsh for the crimes. As one chap I was in with who got moved out the cell after just two days, I found out he was doing six months for sexually assaulting his daughter, so he got moved to the "nonce wing " segregation, now he should have got life !

The issue would be if your man went beyond threatening actions and actually harms the girl and he wasn’t convicted on the first one.

 

[bringbackrattles]

The issue would be if your man went beyond threatening actions and actually harms the girl and he wasn’t convicted on the first one.

No he just used words when he was drunk. She recorded his call, as she thought he may harm her etc. But lots of cons claim innocence, their nearly all angels of light ! I was old school and accepted my guilt and took my sentence, and got on with it. A lot of cons will never accept they did wrong and put blame on everyone except themselves.

 

[Nick]

What was the documentary called, which channel etc?

 

[bringbackrattles]

What was the documentary called, which channel etc?

I watched it last night. ITV at 10.45. Documentary on the state of prisons in the UK. On for an hour. Focused on riot in Winson Green, filmed by the cons ! Plus other nicks, talking to officers, and at the end the new head of prisons admitted they were in a mess. A good programme though.

 

[skybluetony176]

Prison is a horrible place not just for the inmates but those who work there too. I was reading something a few years ago and it stated that prison officers not only have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession in the U.K. it also has one of the shortest life expectancies post retirement. All stress related.

 

[bringbackrattles]

Prison is a horrible place not just for the inmates but those who work there too. I was reading something a few years ago and it stated that prison officers not only have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession in the U.K. it also has one of the lowest life expectancies post retirement. All stress related.

A lot of prison officers in prisons in the 70's/80's were ex army. They came from a discipline background and were tough. I got on well with many of them as they were hard but fair, mess with them and you'd regret it, but behave yourself and they'd be fine. You find many cons who cause trouble can't do their time, they're weak and are a pain.

 

[skybluetony176]

A lot of prison officers in prisons in the 70's/80's were ex army. They came from a discipline background and were tough. I got on well with many of them as they were hard but fair, mess with them and you'd regret it, but behave yourself and they'd be fine. You find many cons who cause trouble can't do their time, they're weak and are a pain.

Doesn’t surprise me. I have a cousin and uncle who joined the prison service after leaving the army in the 80’s.

 

[Nick]

Watching it now, those ones on leads dog fighting each other!!

 

[Otis]

Prison is a horrible place not just for the inmates but those who work there too. I was reading something a few years ago and it stated that prison officers not only have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession in the U.K. it also has one of the shortest life expectancies post retirement. All stress related.

Yeah, well, they put it down as suicide, but I can't believe that many all just 'jumped' off the balcony in C Block without a gentle push of encouragement.

 

[bringbackrattles]

Watching it now, those ones on leads dog fighting each other!!

Good advert as a warning : Don't take drugs !

 

[rob9872]

The whole system needs a massive shake-up. We lock way way too many people up in this country.

Debtors, shoplifters, drug addicts etc. can & should be helped/punished/rehabilitated within society........not locked up at a cost of £70K + per year....

Also, put a fucking net up to stop the gangs flying supplies in by drone......jeez....its not rocket science is it......

I'd happily lock more up and for longer. In fact I'd make prison building a national industry if there aren't enough spaces. Despite the odd example like BBR mamy don' rehabilitate and I'm not convinced a number of them want to. Never worked a day in their life and from parents who were the same just expect everything to fall their way and if not they'll take it anyhow. More chance of a custodial for a longer and harder time is still the best deterrent imo. It certainly wouldn' cost £70k pa in my ideology too as it wouldn't be rewards just do your time and if you come back you'll get longer.

 

[dutchman]

I was watching a programme about life on benefits (Channel 5 I think?) and a young parent from Nuneaton said he was "looking forward to going back inside so he could meet all his old mates". He was visibly upset when the judge let him off with a non-custodial sentence. Says a lot about the regime in English prisons.

 

[Otis]

Different world isn't it, because prison would absolutely terrify me.

 

[tisza]

I'd happily lock more up and for longer. In fact I'd make prison building a national industry if there aren't enough spaces. Despite the odd example like BBR mamy don' rehabilitate and I'm not convinced a number of them want to. Never worked a day in their life and from parents who were the same just expect everything to fall their way and if not they'll take it anyhow. More chance of a custodial for a longer and harder time is still the best deterrent imo. It certainly wouldn' cost £70k pa in my ideology too as it wouldn't be rewards just do your time and if you come back you'll get longer.

Maybe I'm old school but I basically agree.
Like the schools once discipline breaks down everything starts to fall apart.
Few do-gooders seem to wield too much influence. Break the law go to jail. Need something similar to certain US states 3 convictions and it's prison time.
Seeing press pieces about kids not coping with exam pressure this year as standards have been tightened. Same as non-competitive sports. School supposed to prepare kids for life. Life is competitive. Sending kids out under prepared as they assume someone will always be there to wipe their noses. No surprise we're seeing more reports about people living with their parents whilst they're in their 30s etc.
Govt has a duty of care to the overwhelming majority of people who don't t break the law to ensure their safety & protect them from crime. Also has a duty of care that prison should actually be a safe & secure environment for staff & inmates.

 

[bringbackrattles]

I'd happily lock more up and for longer. In fact I'd make prison building a national industry if there aren't enough spaces. Despite the odd example like BBR mamy don' rehabilitate and I'm not convinced a number of them want to. Never worked a day in their life and from parents who were the same just expect everything to fall their way and if not they'll take it anyhow. More chance of a custodial for a longer and harder time is still the best deterrent imo. It certainly wouldn' cost £70k pa in my ideology too as it wouldn't be rewards just do your time and if you come back you'll get longer.

Do you know what I agree. I'd never have thought I'd say that as an "ex offender" but you do make a good argument. But for me the solution to reducing numbers in prison would be when a prisoner got a say 4 year sentence, do all the 4 year instead of him/her out after 2 years. I tell you that would stop many commiting crime ! And through experience I can say have harder screws on the wings, who won't be intimidated by a drugged up inmate who knows he'll be put on the hospital wing, where he'll have it cushy. But you'll get some who will return time and time again, it took me 3 sentences to see the errors of my ways, but if they made it harder and not be so soft these days, a large number wouldn't go back.

 

[Nick]

The thing is about making it harder is the whole human rights thing, it isn't as simple as if somebody plays up just giving them a bit of a kickin. There's paperwork to fill out every time any force is used, there's having to be able to justify things like even taken a baton out to a prisoner and having to explain why you did it etc. In the G4s prisons the prison gets charged (money wise) every time they use any force (even restraining) a prisoner so they don't like doing it at all.

The whole conditioning of prison officers is rife as well, to some of the prisoners £5k is spare change in their sofa but if they see a prison officer is struggling for money they are straight on it trying their luck to see if they will bring things in for them.

I reckon for most officers the issue isn't the actual prisoners or that they work in a prison it's more the conditions they have to work in and some of the other gimps they have to work with (bearing in mind their lives could be in their hands).

 

[shmmeee]

I'd happily lock more up and for longer. In fact I'd make prison building a national industry if there aren't enough spaces. Despite the odd example like BBR mamy don' rehabilitate and I'm not convinced a number of them want to. Never worked a day in their life and from parents who were the same just expect everything to fall their way and if not they'll take it anyhow. More chance of a custodial for a longer and harder time is still the best deterrent imo. It certainly wouldn' cost £70k pa in my ideology too as it wouldn't be rewards just do your time and if you come back you'll get longer.

Prison is expensive. You’re at the least feeding and housing them as well as paying for all the staff around it from admin and guards to probation and courts. Even your wet dream “stick em in a box” penal system would be massively expensive.

I’d rather do what works than let my basal emotions guide me. My aim is to reduce crime and the repercussions of crime. And all the evidence suggests having lots of shit prisons doesn’t help that.

People are just big kids, generally being a dick to them makes them a dick back.

If you want it just to have some fun at the expense of people you deem unworthy, just cut the prisons and have The Running Man or something. At least that’s drive advertising revenue. But don’t pretend it’s for anything other than simple revenge.

 

[tisza]

For me the system is also failing when prisoners are let out early or convicted prisoners are not sent to jail where lack of available spaces is a key issue/excuse.

 

[tisza]

The thing is about making it harder is the whole human rights thing, it isn't as simple as if somebody plays up just giving them a bit of a kickin. "QUOTE]
Always this issue of balancing the rights of the individual against the rights of the rest of society. Albanian gangsters can't be deported because Albanian prisons are tough etc.
When the "rights" of an individual impinge on the rights of the majority then the balance of the system is wrong.
Prison discipline should have a different set of rules. It's a special set of circumstances so special laws. Eg Assault an officer 3-5 yrs extra, drug selling 3-5 yrs, using drugs 12 months extra.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I'd happily lock more up and for longer. In fact I'd make prison building a national industry if there aren't enough spaces. Despite the odd example like BBR mamy don' rehabilitate and I'm not convinced a number of them want to. Never worked a day in their life and from parents who were the same just expect everything to fall their way and if not they'll take it anyhow. More chance of a custodial for a longer and harder time is still the best deterrent imo. It certainly wouldn' cost £70k pa in my ideology too as it wouldn't be rewards just do your time and if you come back you'll get longer.

all evidence suggests it doesn't work..........just look at the USA

 

[fernandopartridge]

Maybe I'm old school but I basically agree.
Like the schools once discipline breaks down everything starts to fall apart.
Few do-gooders seem to wield too much influence. Break the law go to jail. Need something similar to certain US states 3 convictions and it's prison time.
Seeing press pieces about kids not coping with exam pressure this year as standards have been tightened. Same as non-competitive sports. School supposed to prepare kids for life. Life is competitive. Sending kids out under prepared as they assume someone will always be there to wipe their noses. No surprise we're seeing more reports about people living with their parents whilst they're in their 30s etc.
Govt has a duty of care to the overwhelming majority of people who don't t break the law to ensure their safety & protect them from crime. Also has a duty of care that prison should actually be a safe & secure environment for staff & inmates.

What does wider society get back for that? Have you ever looked at reoffending rates? Prison is a useless punishment for anything other than the most serious crimes

 

[henry the wasp]

I was watching a programme about life on benefits (Channel 5 I think?) and a young parent from Nuneaton said he was "looking forward to going back inside so he could meet all his old mates". He was visibly upset when the judge let him off with a non-custodial sentence. Says a lot about the regime in English prisons.

One of the smack rats from nuneaton was on that. Had over 100 convictions.
Currently doing 8 years for manslaughter.

 

[Covstu]

What does wider society get back for that? Have you ever looked at reoffending rates? Prison is a useless punishment for anything other than the most serious crimes

so what do you do with the habitual burgler who keeps breaking into houses and cars. Not as serious as murder of course but does he keep getting off as he shouldn't go to prison?

 

[Nick]

so what do you do with the habitual burgler who keeps breaking into houses and cars. Not as serious as murder of course but does he keep getting off as he shouldn't go to prison?

Let the people who he steals off have 15 minutes with him, like from Hostel / The Purge.

 

[Covstu]

Let the people who he steals off have 15 minutes with him, like from Hostel / The Purge.

I think Shhmmee's Running man idea has legs....

 

[fernandopartridge]

so what do you do with the habitual burgler who keeps breaking into houses and cars. Not as serious as murder of course but does he keep getting off as he shouldn't go to prison?

Some sort of payback to society. Community work. Street cleaning anything really. Prison and then out to reoffend just isn't working.

 

[bringbackrattles]

I've got to say it again but only by changing the way you think, and acting on it can anybody change their ways. You can stick someone in a top hotel to do their time, but he/she would still cause trouble, they'd find something wrong with it. I've been inside with some people who would fight themselves if they could,and others who would steal from you as soon as your back was turned. They didn't want to change, they thought why should they ? They were right and society was the baddie, they just reflected all that's bad in the world.
So in other words some people will never change, because they don't think they're doing wrong,and how scary is that.

 

[tisza]

What does wider society get back for that? Have you ever looked at reoffending rates? Prison is a useless punishment for anything other than the most serious crimes

No reason why prison cannot rehabilitate or be a deterrent without being extreme.

Community Work etc. May be okay for minor offences for non-repeat offenders but not for others.
Regarding reoffending rates tend to show that rates fall with length of sentence. So make people serve larger % of sentence and increase sentences.