Upcoming Changes At The Ricoh (44 Viewers)

Noggin · Nov 19, 2014

Grendel said:
That's interesting. So it if had made them money you would have supported it.

Wow

If the movement of ccfc for a year was clearly going to lead to a significant long term betterment of ccfc financially (and I would need it clearly demonstrated that they had taken things like future supporter numbers etc into account) I would support it, I would expect the club to make it easier for the fans though. The main problems with the move to northampton were it was completely unnecessary and massively harmful. if it had been necessary or massively positive then I'd support it, or at the very least not vehemently oppose it.

Ian1779 · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
I haven't made any judgement on WASPS decision, I simply am not informed enough to know what options were available to them and what they had tried in the past, I don't know if this was necessary or even if its a good decision. I wasn't trying to make out anything, you are an idiot as usual. I have no emotional attachment to wasps, no feelings about them at all really other than being disappointed there is no easy route for us to own our own stadium anymore and I won't be attending their games.

Nick (and liked by you as every idiotic post is) is inferring that because the motivating factor behind the movement of wasps and the movement of ccfc is money that they are somehow equatable acts. That's nonsense of the highest order, wasps were moved for the financial benefit of wasps (and yes the the plan is for that to lead to financial benefits for their owners), our movement was not done for the financial benefit of ccfc, in fact it was done despite the incredibly obvious and massive financial damage it would do to ccfc, so they could inflict financial damage on ACL.

Or from another point of view... the Northampton move was done to ultimately return to Coventry in a better position (motive, rationale is not necessarily in dispute)

Wasps are not looking for a cash boost before trotting off back to London are they?

So who's worse?

Noggin · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
Or from another point of view... the Northampton move was done to ultimately return to Coventry in a better position (motive, rationale is not necessarily in dispute)

No one has ever been able to make a reasoned and backed up argument how the move to northampton would ever lead to the betterment of ccfc. Plenty of soundbites and comments about the long term and needing the revenue but nothing that actually made any sense whatsoever if you looked at it at all closely.

Look at the damage it's none, no assets, a terrible squad, abysmal crowds, no realistic chance to own our own stadium, a fanbase that loath the owners and hate each other, crappy sponsorship, an awful retail store, no ability to handle big game ticket sales anymore, then there is millions in lost revenue while we were away. Opps forgot the administrations, the ruining of last season, the likely relegation to league 2 this season.

letsallsingtogether · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
I haven't made any judgement on WASPS decision, I simply am not informed enough to know what options were available to them and what they had tried in the past, I don't know if this was necessary or even if its a good decision. I wasn't trying to make out anything, you are an idiot as usual. I have no emotional attachment to wasps, no feelings about them at all really other than being disappointed there is no easy route for us to own our own stadium anymore and I won't be attending their games.

Nick (and liked by you as every idiotic post is) is inferring that because the motivating factor behind the movement of wasps and the movement of ccfc is money that they are somehow equatable acts. That's nonsense of the highest order, wasps were moved for the financial benefit of wasps (and yes the the plan is for that to lead to financial benefits for their owners), our movement was not done for the financial benefit of ccfc, in fact it was done despite the incredibly obvious and massive financial damage it would do to ccfc, so they could inflict financial damage on ACL.

Noggin said:
No one has ever been able to make a reasoned and backed up argument how the move to northampton would ever lead to the betterment of ccfc. Plenty of soundbites and comments about the long term and needing the revenue but nothing that actually made any sense whatsoever if you looked at it at all closely.

Look at the damage it's none, no assets, a terrible squad, abysmal crowds, no realistic chance to own our own stadium, a fanbase that loath the owners and hate each other, crappy sponsorship, an awful retail store, no ability to handle big game ticket sales anymore, then there is millions in lost revenue while we were away.

100% correct you beat me to it.
How anyone can think that cov moved away for the better of the club is beyond me.
You only have to look at the reaction at fishers forums to know dont do it.
But as usual they never listened to the fans.
Yet people still defend them. Their only argument is go on support the wasps they really have no shame in supporting the scum that own us others have to take some of the blame but ultimatly it is down to that bullying culture that sisu use.
And I fucking hate bullies

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

My point, with which I was directly addressing Italia was that in my view it is hypocritical to condemn SISU then applaud Wasps. In my opinion (I've highlighted that) I don't think either side have any excuses for moving their respective clubs. Neither side should have move their respective clubs and both should be universally condemned for moving their respective clubs.

Those of us who went to Sixfields were slagged off, which is fair enough, but I don't know one person who went who agreed with it. To be honest I can cope withabuse levelled at me and other attendees from the likes of yourself. However, I cannot and will not accept the breathtaking hypocrisy of Italia and the growing army of others who somehow think poor little Wasps didn't have a choice.

letsallsingtogether said:
How anyone can think that cov moved away for the better of the club is beyond me.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

torchomatic said:
FFS. You were shocked, giving up your support, finger pointing, banner waving and generally waving your pitchfork about because CCFC moved to Northampton. Yet, you think Wasps moving to Coventry is great and you'll be going to watch. Not a thought about the rugby team already in the City, not a thought about Wasps fans, not a thought that this will probably mean CCFC will move again in the future... I tend to agree with NW.

It's the non stop banging on about people being selfish and how some fans caused this tbh. Those who have different opinions but are civil, great. Some seem surprised why they're called morons though.

And they're usually the ones who cause most damage...

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
No one has ever been able to make a reasoned and backed up argument how the move to northampton would ever lead to the betterment of ccfc. Plenty of soundbites and comments about the long term and needing the revenue but nothing that actually made any sense whatsoever if you looked at it at all closely.

Oh yes they have, but fools decide either to decide that means I agree with it,am pro sisu, or incapable of empathy.

Alas the one-eyed drone leaves the club open to burning as certain posters stick their fingers in their ears.

wingy · Nov 19, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
100% correct you beat me to it.
How anyone can think that cov moved away for the better of the club is beyond me.
You only have to look at the reaction at fishers forums to know dont do it.
But as usual they never listened to the fans.
Yet people still defend them. Their only argument is go on support the wasps they really have no shame in supporting the scum that own us others have to take some of the blame but ultimatly it is down to that bullying culture that sisu use.
And I fucking hate bullies

The Bloke will never be able to carry the club onwards .

He absolutely has to go

Anyone who puts faith In him are deluding themselves ,deny him Oxygen and he will wither ,he has already TBF.

Ian1779 · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
No one has ever been able to make a reasoned and backed up argument how the move to northampton would ever lead to the betterment of ccfc. Plenty of soundbites and comments about the long term and needing the revenue but nothing that actually made any sense whatsoever if you looked at it at all closely.

At the moment there is no reasoned and backed up argument for the Wasps move is there....? Especially as their move is permanent and they have isolated their own fan base. However their move lauded as this amazing piece of enterprise.

Noggin · Nov 19, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
Oh yes they have, but fools decide either to decide that means I agree with it,am pro sisu, or incapable of empathy.

Alas the one-eyed drone leaves the club open to burning as certain posters stick their fingers in their ears.

I've never seen a post from you that gave a reasoned argument how the move to northampton could be beneficial to ccfc that stands up to any sort of scrutiny, it's the same as the arguments for building a new stadium, there is no one who has managed to describe how this could be a good idea, other than We need all the revenues in order to survive thus building a new stadium is a good idea.

Noggin · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
At the moment there is no reasoned and backed up argument for the Wasps move is there....? Especially as their move is permanent and they have isolated their own fan base. However their move lauded as this amazing piece of enterprise.

There is a reasoned and backedup argument for the wasps move (by backed up I mean an argument where you can produce figures based on reasonable assumptions that make it a good idea, not actual hard proof) of course you can also make a reasoned and backedup argument for why the wasps move is bad idea to, it's very much an informed gamble on their part. But how is this relevant to anything?, no one is arguing that the wasps move is a great idea. It is the case though that the movement of wasps was in the opinion of wasps/owners in the best interests of wasps financially, it's an understandable if unpleasant choice. This wasn't the case with ccfc, there was nothing necessary, nothing understable, nothing viable, nothing reasonable and nothing that was in the best interests of ccfc financially or otherwise.

Ian1779 said:
However their move lauded as this amazing piece of enterprise.

what tosh

italiahorse · Nov 19, 2014

Nick said:
They were moved for the same reasons, money! Posts like this just make people look silly, especially after they were outraged when we were moved. It wouldn't surprise me if some well known fans were cosying up for freebie tickets at Wasps.

This post is straight from the Ann Lucas book of propaganda.

So CCFC are financially better off thanks to the Northampton move ?

Ian1779 · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
what tosh

I suggest partaking of a few threads on this board. You will be inundated with people that think it is a wonderful piece of business

Noggin said:
There is a reasoned and backedup argument for the wasps move (by backed up I mean an argument where you can produce figures based on reasonable assumptions that make it a good idea, not actual hard proof) of course you can also make a reasoned and backedup argument for why the wasps move is bad idea to, it's very much an informed gamble on their part. But how is this relevant to anything?, no one is arguing that the wasps move is a great idea. It is the case though that the movement of wasps was in the opinion of wasps/owners in the best interests of wasps financially, it's an understandable if unpleasant choice. This wasn't the case with ccfc, there was nothing necessary, nothing understandable, nothing viable, nothing reasonable and nothing that was in the best interests of ccfc financially or otherwise.

A crippling rental agreement with no access to any revenue whatsoever would seem to me a good rationale to start with.

As for Wasps 'reasoned argument'.... they play less games than us, with a lower average attendance, and have moved 85 miles away from their historical fan base. I don't think I would call that reasoned - no matter how much bullshit, spurious figures (£6m generated for local area for 1 game as an example) and fancy Powerpoints you throw at people.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
I suggest partaking of a few threads on this board. You will be inundated with people that think it is a wonderful piece of business

A crippling rental agreement with no access to any revenue whatsoever would seem to me a good rationale to start with.

As for Wasps 'reasoned argument'.... they play less games than us, with a lower average attendance, and have moved 85 miles away from their historical fan base. I don't think I would call that reasoned - no matter how much bullshit, spurious figures (£6m generated for local area for 1 game as an example) and fancy Powerpoints you throw at people.

All well and good except the crippling rental agreement had gone before we went to Sixfields then what happened???

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Ian1779 · Nov 19, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
All well and good except the crippling rental agreement had gone before we went to Sixfields then what happened???

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Only went as the club went into administration though. Technically you could then argue there was no agreement or deal in place at all meaning the club did not have anywhere to play.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Nov 19, 2014

But practically you know that's not true yes it was admin and yes they had somewhere to play

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Noggin · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
I suggest partaking of a few threads on this board. You will be inundated with people that think it is a wonderful piece of business

people that think they got a bargain? sure, people that think they are doing a good job in the short period since buying the arena sure, people who are insisting that taking wasps from wycombe and buying a stadium in Coventry is a wonderful idea, I don't think so.

Ian1779 said:
A crippling rental agreement with no access to any revenue whatsoever would seem to me a good rationale to start with.

no no, it really is not, in the slightest, at all. But thats been discussed a thousand times with dozens if not hundreds of posts with people posting numbers of this can have never have been the right choice, especially when they had already been offered great deals to lower the rent before leaving. I'm not going to do it again because the fact you still feel this way means you arn't open to reason.

Ian1779 said:
As for Wasps 'reasoned argument'.... they play less games than us, with a lower average attendance, and have moved 85 miles away from their historical fan base. I don't think I would call that reasoned - no matter how much bullshit, spurious figures (£6m generated for local area for 1 game as an example) and fancy Powerpoints you throw at people.

There reasoned argument is obvious, they believe in a different location and with full revenues they can grow a fan base to the size that is sustainable even with the fact the move will likely cost them thousands of regular fans. The otherside of the argument is equally as obvious, this will cost them thousands of fans and once the novelty has worn off here they will end up with less than they started with. I don't know which is correct, nore do I care really, but you have to be pretty unreasonable not to see there actually is a reasoned argument for the benefit of wasps in this move (even if it fails) and there was no reasoned argument for the benefit of ccfc in our move. It was clearly and obviously about hurting acl for sisus benefit.

lift tower · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
As for Wasps 'reasoned argument'.... they play less games than us, with a lower average attendance, and have moved 85 miles away from their historical fan base. I don't think I would call that reasoned - no matter how much bullshit, spurious figures (£6m generated for local area for 1 game as an example) and fancy Powerpoints you throw at people.

You're right re their fanbase and I detest franchised sport in this country as much as the next man but they have managed to get a lucrative sponsorship deal out of it and have an asset to show for it. In that respect it was done for the "right" business reasons IE they didnt do it to try and distress Wycombe and alienate their fans and sponsors.

Whether or not their fans and the wider Warwickshire public will take to them remains to be seen, but living in Northampton I have noticed a lot of Rugger fans are a different breed to us football fans! For them it does seem to be more about the matchday experience and having a drink with the chaps. On a matchday near Franklins Gardens the streets are full of LandRovers etc with Saints stickers that have travelled in from the sticks.

Moff · Nov 19, 2014

lift tower said:
Whether or not their fans and the wider Warwickshire public will take to them remains to be seen, but living in Northampton I have noticed a lot of Rugger fans are a different breed to us football fans! For them it does seem to be more about the matchday experience and having a drink with the chaps. On a matchday near Franklins Gardens the streets are full of LandRovers etc with Saints stickers that have travelled in from the sticks.

Yes local fans for a local team, not some imported one from London.

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

What's also pretty galling is that we paid more in rent while we were there than Wasps paid for the whole shebang.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
All well and good except the crippling rental agreement had gone before we went to Sixfields then what happened???

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Deleted member 5849 · Nov 19, 2014

Christ it's like talking to a brick wall with some.

Let's SHOUT LOUDLY at what we don't want to hear.

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

Breaking News: Wasps narrow down sites for another stadium move just in case the Ricoh option doesn't work out.

Moff said:
Yes local fans for a local team, not some imported one from London.

Ian1779 · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
there was no reasoned argument for the benefit of ccfc in our move.

Do we have a better deal for being at the Ricoh now than before we left? Yes we do - so I'd say there was at least one benefit.

That benefit has come at a cost in other areas - and if you looked at the cost overall (savings + revenue versus loss of earning at Sixfields) then financially it has not worked out, but it very much depends on what the owners are planning long term really. If they are intent on staying for a long while, then maybe at some point they may see that strategy play out to some benefit.

Wasps will have to have a similar long term plan to achieve their objective. I would not be surprised if Wasps lose per year just as much as we did during our tenure at Sixfields until they either establish themselves here in the Midlands, or sell up and piss off back to London.

Making justifications for the Wasps move and deriding the SISU actions for doing pretty identical things is hypocrisy.

italiahorse · Nov 19, 2014

duffer said:
I'm a CRFC fan - in fact I've been to more CRFC games than CCFC games over the last couple of years. I'm not happy about what's been done to CRFC. I'd much rather you didn't pretend to speak for CRFC fans when you've clearly no idea how we feel. It's actually kind of offensive.id
Never said I'd spoken to CRFC fans I said I had seen no real protests

As for Wasps, it's a convenient pretence that their fans aren't bothered. Here's a straight question on one of their boards - how many of their fans said they were happy to move?

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,14923654,page=1

Never said they were happy to move. But the fan base in Wycombe is not in keeping with the size of the club so it was an easy decision to move into what they believe is a potentially bigger fan base. Time will tell.

Like CRFC fans though, what's the point in protesting, it's a done deal. As fans who suffered for a year when their club was moved 35 miles away 'temporarily', I just find it incredible that anyone here could posit the idea that a large number of Wasps fans wouldn't be equally or probably more upset. It's just a denial of the obvious to try to avoid being called hypocritical, im

I agree. It's a done deal so like CRFC fans what's the point of protesting. Lets try and make the best of it and get a good deal for both Wasps and us.

And yes, I'd also be aggreived if Wasps landed at (say) Broadstreet rather than the Ricoh, because it would still be a franchise, and it would still limit CRFC's ambition. Neither of those things is acceptable to me.

But you are from Coventry what about Rugby fans in Warwickshire?

So, a question for you. What kind of good deal from Wasps do you think is achievable? Do you think that SISU don't want a good deal from Wasps for some reason? I'm not at all clear what you're asking people to do here. Get angry at SISU? Is there anyone here that isn't?!

I've said before it's in Wasps interest to get CCFC on board. Say they gave CCFC all the profits from sales on food, drink, car parking etc they would be no worse off but would gain from economies of scale (i.e. the more you spend the cheaper it becomes). Costs of ticketing system and other facilities would be halved. Even if they charge CCFC 50% of the cost CCFC would not have to provide there own 100% facility.

We are all angry at Sisu but the anger is being channelled at Wasps, and anyone like myself putting some positives on it, instead of getting Sisu to drop the JR and new stadium talk in favour of working on a deal. Hopefully Sisu are using talk of a stadium as a negotiating ploy, but I doubt it.

Edit: And the major boost to the economy thing. I hope you're not buying the £6m a game bullshit touted by the council - that's laughable.
I went to the Casino, football, Casino for the England match, had a meal, watched my daughter box in the Jaguar hall and then back to the Casino and it all looked pretty good to me.
The Arena shopping facilities are second to none. I've lived around this area for years and it's great boost for the area.

The simple fact is that limiting CCFC's ambitions with regard to the Ricoh, will probably limit their ability to thrive as club. It might even lead ultimately to them leaving, or possibly folding. Any of those things happening will have a far more negative effect to the city than Wasps arrival here.

Maybe, but people need to do the figures. If we had made the PL even with the original high rent we would be quids in now.

Anyway, this argument's been made by me enough now. Whether you accept it or not is up to you, but there's no need to pretend that either Wasps or CRFC fans are happy about them turning up at the Ricoh - look for your justification elsewhere
As I said, I never said they were happy. I just want to move on and get a deal done at the Ricoh before the moment has gone.

ccfcway · Nov 19, 2014

"The Arena shopping facilities are second to none."

what ?

Greggs, Carphone Warehouse, Game, New Look, a pet shop and a subway ?

I bet the Bull Ring, Trafford Centre etc must be kicking themselves.

James Smith · Nov 19, 2014

torchomatic said:
What's also pretty galling is that we paid more in rent while we were there than Wasps paid for the whole shebang.

Can't but agree with that (loan not withstanding) the council stitched us up good and propper with their hypocritical stance/sale and Sisu didn't help matters with the new stadium talk. Wasps got a bargain which should have been ours.

Noggin · Nov 19, 2014

Ian1779 said:
Do we have a better deal for being at the Ricoh now than before we left? Yes we do - so I'd say there was at least one benefit.

That benefit has come at a cost in other areas - and if you looked at the cost overall (savings + revenue versus loss of earning at Sixfields) then financially it has not worked out, but it very much depends on what the owners are planning long term really. If they are intent on staying for a long while, then maybe at some point they may see that strategy play out to some benefit.

Wasps will have to have a similar long term plan to achieve their objective. I would not be surprised if Wasps lose per year just as much as we did during our tenure at Sixfields until they either establish themselves here in the Midlands, or sell up and piss off back to London.

Making justifications for the Wasps move and deriding the SISU actions for doing pretty identical things is hypocrisy.

Do we have a better deal now, yes, was it better than one on offer to us before we left, not sure without the full details. even if it is we would be have been better in the short, medium and long term taking that deal, unequivocally yes, was this 100% obvious before we moved, unequivocally yes, it hasn't just not worked out, the damage was completely predictable(other than the loss of ability to buy the stadium), this is my exact point, there was no argument for moving in the first place, no situation where it would have worked out, the damage they have done with the move will take years to repair and quite possibly never, despite how terrible things are they can consider themselves lucky that it hasn't been worse, we are still in league one (probably not for long though) and we have been allowed back.

as for the last point, you really aren't worth the effort, complete utter nonsense.

italiahorse · Nov 19, 2014

ccfcway said:
"The Arena shopping facilities are second to none."

what ?

Greggs, Carphone Warehouse, Game, New Look, a pet shop and a subway ?

I bet the Bull Ring, Trafford Centre etc must be kicking themselves.

.... to name a few, but why mention the others in putting down the area.
You'll be mentioning the scrap yard next

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

The shops are fine. It's the rugby stadium that lets the area down.

italiahorse said:
.... to name a few, but why mention the others in putting down the area.
You'll be mentioning the scrap yard next

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

Noggin said:
Do we have a better deal now, yes, was it better than one on offer to us before we left, not sure without the full details. even if it is we would be have been better in the short, medium and long term taking that deal, unequivocally yes, was this 100% obvious before we moved, unequivocally yes, it hasn't just not worked out, the damage was completely predictable(other than the loss of ability to buy the stadium), this is my exact point, there was no argument for moving in the first place, no situation where it would have worked out, the damage they have done with the move will take years to repair and quite possibly never, despite how terrible things are they can consider themselves lucky that it hasn't been worse, we are still in league one (probably not for long though) and we have been allowed back.

as for the last point, you really aren't worth the effort, complete utter nonsense.

James Smith · Nov 19, 2014

torchomatic said:
The shops are fine. It's the rugby stadium that lets the area down.

Actually to be fair to DeVere, the hotel when I've stayed there has been quite good in terms room only as it's possible to nip to Tesco and get something to bung in the microwave to eat. Watching Sky Sports in the bath was a totally new experience for me.

lift tower · Nov 19, 2014

Moff said:
Yes local fans for a local team, not some imported one from London.

True. But Northampton Saints weren't always the draw they are to the wealthy village dwellers of Northants and the surrounding areas. I remember pre-professionalism when their ground was worse than Northampton Town's County Ground and they were attracting a couple of thousand. When the game turned pro along came the millionaire chairman with big money contracts for top players, stadium expansion and corporate boxes offering a nice day out for the chaps and their fanbase expanded hugely.

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

They were still a Northampton team though.

lift tower said:
True. But Northampton Saints weren't always the draw they are to the wealthy village dwellers of Northants and the surrounding areas. I remember pre-professionalism when their ground was worse than Northampton Town's County Ground and they were attracting a couple of thousand. When the game turned pro along came the millionaire chairman with big money contracts for top players, stadium expansion and corporate boxes offering a nice day out for the chaps and their fanbase expanded hugely.

letsallsingtogether · Nov 19, 2014

What a pile of dross.

If CRFC had brought the Ricoh the same people would still be here shouting fucking egg chasers stole our ground.

Get it through your thick skulls Sisu didn't want it, if it wasn't for free.

couldn't even afford the 2.7 million for half a share.

torchomatic · Nov 19, 2014

Nah, don't agree there. If CRFC were using the Ricoh as well as us then I don't think anyone would mind. Not sure why it's so difficult to grasp for some.

letsallsingtogether said:
What a pile of dross.

If CRFC had brought the Ricoh the same people would still be here shouting fucking egg chasers stole our ground.

Get it through your thick skulls Sisu didn't want it, if it wasn't for free.

couldn't even afford the 2.7 million for half a share.

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