USSR invades Ukraine. (88 Viewers)

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Russia have been for years declaring Ukrainian territory as Russian and when invading the much disputed Crimea I can’t remember a peep from you about that or other attempts to take over Donbass

Hitler had armed himself to the hilt and was preparing for a conquest of Europe - he also operated in an era where certain other nations had dictators with equal dubious intent

We have no formal treaty or legal obligation to Ukraine

NATO didn’t then exist - there was not a huge committed military alliance of nations who are signed up to protect each other

Hitler didn’t have nuclear weapons

The US had zero interest in Hitler - they have most certainly a huge interest in Mr Putin

Putin and his army is weak and has no capacity for a European invasion

China in economic strategic and political terms was non existent then and most certainly isn’t now

I think you are sitting in the 1930’s the only threat to global peace is if we actively defend a non NATO country which would open up a huge can of worms and potential dangers

So some similarities and some differences, which is hardly surprising considering the events are over 80 years apart. He didn't say they were the same.

So on your comments:

Nazi Germany had been declaring parts of Czechoslovakia were German and indeed they contained a majority of ethnic Germans.

We are now also living in an era of very dubious dictators, including in the region of the conflict.

What was the treaty obligation we had to act in relation to Czechoslovakia?

I accept Nato and nuclear weapons points.

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Deleted member 9744 said:
So some similarities and some differences, which is hardly surprising considering the events are over 80 years apart. He didn't say they were the same.

So on your comments:

Nazi Germany had been declaring parts of Czechoslovakia were German and indeed they contained a majority of ethnic Germans.

We are now also living in an era of very dubious dictators, including in the region of the conflict.

What was the treaty obligation we had to act in relation to Czechoslovakia?

I accept Nato and nuclear weapons points.

none of the others you’ve omitted to reference

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Russia have been for years declaring Ukrainian territory as Russian and when invading the much disputed Crimea I can’t remember a peep from you about that or other attempts to take over Donbass

Hitler had armed himself to the hilt and was preparing for a conquest of Europe - he also operated in an era where certain other nations had dictators with equal dubious intent

We have no formal treaty or legal obligation to Ukraine

NATO didn’t then exist - there was not a huge committed military alliance of nations who are signed up to protect each other

Hitler didn’t have nuclear weapons

The US had zero interest in Hitler - they have most certainly a huge interest in Mr Putin

Putin and his army is weak and has no capacity for a European invasion

China in economic strategic and political terms was non existent then and most certainly isn’t now

I think you are sitting in the 1930’s the only threat to global peace is if we actively defend a non NATO country which would open up a huge can of worms and potential dangers

So long story short you are still in the 'let him crack on with it' camp. Could have just said so.

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
So long story short you are still in the 'let him crack on with it' camp. Could have just said so.

Can you deal with each of my points rather than act like a child?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Can you deal with each of my points rather than act like a child?

Acting like a child? It's a comparison made by the head of our own army. No, of course it isn't identical. But if you can't see some overlap you're (again) being wilfully contrarian. The proposal that some of Ukraine which is argued to be 'ethnically Russian' be handed over to Russia to pacify Putin is similar to the rationale behind the Munich agreement. That's about all that's been said.

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
none of the others you’ve omitted to reference

I don't know how strong Putin's army is relative to Nazi Germany's so didn't comment.

Accept China point.

But the argument was there were similarities not that they are the same.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Again he just laughs and acts like it's a rebuttal

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Deleted member 9744 said:
I don't know how strong Putin's army is relative to Nazi Germany's so didn't comment.

Accept China point.

But the argument was there were similarities not that they are the same.

Its 1.5 million

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Its 1.5 million

What is?

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Again he just laughs and acts like it's a rebuttal

with respect as @fernandopartridge has said the comparison is embarrassing with Nazi germany. I left a long list of evidence and you didn’t address any of it!

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
with respect as @fernandopartridge has said the comparison is embarrassing with Nazi germany. I left a long list of evidence and you didn’t address any of it!

I did. And you didn't address his list if similarities

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Deleted member 9744 said:
I did. And you didn't address his list if similarities

Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
with respect as @fernandopartridge has said the comparison is embarrassing with Nazi germany. I left a long list of evidence and you didn’t address any of it!

Grendel said:
Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say

Good grief. Is the head of the army also an embarrassment for having called it a '1937 moment'? I mean your take of 'let Putin crack on with it' is the most embarrassing anyone has made on this topic.

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say

When you say anywhere else do you mean anywhere else other than Georgia, Moldova and the 2 incursions into Ukraine?

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Are you his dad? Can’t he answer for himself? I’ll let him answer thanks if you think Putin is going to invade anywhere else I think you are an idiot let’s see what your baby has to say

I have no idea whether he is going to invade anywhere else. In my view only an idiot thinks they know.

I just agree with BSB that there are some similarities, but it's not the same.

PVA · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Its 1.5 million

Pointless comparing army sizes from 1945 to now. Pretty much every country had a (massively) larger army back then.

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Good grief. Is the head of the army also an embarrassment for having called it a '1937 moment'? I mean your take of 'let Putin crack on with it' is the most embarrassing anyone has made on this topic.

so you haven’t said that Putin will if allowed a share of Ukraine look to invade elsewhere? You haven’t said that? Your comparison is stupid and ignorant - you seem to think he’s going to invade us. He won’t just relax

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
with respect as @fernandopartridge has said the comparison is embarrassing with Nazi germany. I left a long list of evidence and you didn’t address any of it!

And you haven't addressed the comments I made on your list.

skybluetony176 · Jun 30, 2022

Small matter of Belarus too which essentially is a vichy government to Russia with some 30000 Russian troops based there.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
so you haven’t said that Putin will if allowed a share of Ukraine look to invade elsewhere? You haven’t said that? Your comparison is stupid and ignorant - you seem to think he’s going to invade us. He won’t just relax

I namechecked Moldova and Georgia. Both have pro-Russian separatist regions, in Georgia's case already on the Russian border and in Moldova's case also on the border if Ukraine falls. Neither are NATO members either.

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Small matter of Belarus too which essentially is a vichy government to Russia with some 30000 Russian troops based there.

But according to Grendel, unlike in the 1930s there are no other dictators in the area.

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I namechecked Moldova and Georgia. Both have pro-Russian separatist regions, in Georgia's case already on the Russian border and in Moldova's case also on the border if Ukraine falls. Neither are NATO members either.

You said the old soviet states

USSR invades Ukraine.

that’s even more worrying Really? So a man chooses to invade a country from 3 sides with nearly all he’s got and there are no similarities to a certain someone doing it in ‘39? I guess the Ukrainian journalist who asked Boris the other day was taking the piss too.

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
You said the old soviet states

USSR invades Ukraine.

that’s even more worrying Really? So a man chooses to invade a country from 3 sides with nearly all he’s got and there are no similarities to a certain someone doing it in ‘39? I guess the Ukrainian journalist who asked Boris the other day was taking the piss too.

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Which does not necessarily have to be by conquest e.g. the puppet he has in Belarus

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Which does not necessarily have to be by conquest e.g. the puppet he has in Belarus

So he can make Poland a puppet state - how?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
So he can make Poland a puppet state - how?

Let's see how he gets on conquering Ukraine first. Again, at the same time you said 'let Putin crack on with it'.

You're always avoiding comment on that one-do you agree that would have been an error?

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 30, 2022

It’s a little like an abortion discussion I was having on a Christian group with a right wing extremist nut job

All grendel is saying is that this stops with negotiation why not try it

All bsb and herts are saying is there are similarities with nazi germany and to be fair so is the head of the British army, he is probably saying that as he’s eyeing up an increase in funding and more recruits but he’s still said it

Both are correct is my point

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s a little like an abortion discussion I was having on a Christian group with a right wing extremist nut job

All grendel is saying is that this stops with negotiation why not try it

All bsb and herts are saying is there are similarities with nazi germany and to be fair so is the head of the British army, he is probably saying that as he’s eyeing up an increase in funding and more recruits but he’s still said it

Both are correct is my point

Pretty much. The main difference is I don't see a negotiation with a concession of territory being the end. After all Crimea was tacitly given up by the West and the invasion still came 8 years later, likely only delayed by Covid

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
It’s a little like an abortion discussion I was having on a Christian group with a right wing extremist nut job

All grendel is saying is that this stops with negotiation why not try it

All bsb and herts are saying is there are similarities with nazi germany and to be fair so is the head of the British army, he is probably saying that as he’s eyeing up an increase in funding and more recruits but he’s still said it

Both are correct is my point

Just to be clear I have never said there shouldn't be negotiation. I was just supporting BSB's comment. One doesn't negate the other.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Pretty much. The main difference is I don't see a negotiation with a concession of territory being the end. After all Crimea was tacitly given up by the West and the invasion still came 8 years later, likely only delayed by Covid

It will end with talking though. I agree with your summary of what happened with crimea. It’s such a shame that we can’t treat Russia like any other bully and crush them and him with overwhelming force

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Let's see how he gets on conquering Ukraine first. Again, at the same time you said 'let Putin crack on with it'.

You're always avoiding comment on that one-do you agree that would have been an error?

I never said it so how can I comment on it?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jun 30, 2022

Grendel said:
I never said it so how can I comment on it?

Grendel said:
I’ve lived in a period where Russia has control of half of Europe and we avoided a nuclear holocaust. Russia now is never going to do this again. Ever. It’s straining at the neck to get Ukraine.

It’s going to take all his efforts and financial resources to keep hold of Ukraine and have a devastating effect over time in its country

I wouldn’t antiginise China so isolate him and let him get on with it in terms of military intervention

Fair enough it was 'get' rather than 'crack' in this case

PVA · Jun 30, 2022

His original 'let him get on with it' comment was before then

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 30, 2022

And the message to Putin is that 'all is good' as long as he doesn't invade a Nato country.

shmmeee · Jun 30, 2022

PVA said:
His original 'let him get on with it' comment was before then

The spreadsheeter has become the spreadsheetee!

Grendel said:
In simplistic terms let them get on with it and the sanction should be that Ukraine will always be denied NATO access

Grendel · Jun 30, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Fair enough it was 'get' rather than 'crack' in this case

“In terms of military intervention” I stand by that don’t you?

USSR invades Ukraine. (88 Viewers)

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