USSR invades Ukraine. (73 Viewers)

tisza · Jan 23, 2023

Flying Fokker said:

Fascinating discussions. Basically Russian foreign policy thinking and tactics haven't changed since the Cold War.
Western govt complacency/arrogance and a belief that money & trade could change a thought process that doesn't have any roots in liberal democracy ( much like they've believed in & failed with in countries like Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya and others).
A failure to understand that NATO expansion was because former parts of the Soviet empire always believed there would be a time when Russia would re-emerge as a threat to their new found independence.hence they applied to join NATO - they weren't coerced into joining.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jan 25, 2023

German tanks will be rolling east .......not for the first time !

tisza · Jan 25, 2023

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
German tanks will be rolling east .......not for the first time !

Interesting to see where they end up. Defending against new Russian push then maybe a sign West thinks things aren't going well. Attacking in the South and maybe West believing they can "win".

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jan 25, 2023

tisza said:
Interesting to see where they end up. Defending against new Russian push then maybe a sign West thinks things aren't going well. Attacking in the South and maybe West believing they can "win".

Russia will react very badly to any German tanks used against them. 25 million dead is rammed home in Russia. They've not forgotten and that's understandable.

tisza · Jan 25, 2023

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Russia will react very badly to any German tanks used against them. 25 million dead is rammed home in Russia. They've not forgotten and that's understandable.

Not sure it makes that bigger difference. Russian public been told the whole time that they're are at war with NATO; that NATO do have boots on the ground in Ukraine etc.
The bigger threat of a disproportionate reaction was Ukraine committing attacks inside Russia - which they done. The response to that has been the intensified bombings but no increase in the nuclear threat.
German-made tanks ever cross into Russian territory (Inc Crimea) then could ratchet up Russian public opinion.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jan 25, 2023

tisza said:
Not sure it makes that bigger difference. Russian public been told the whole time that they're are at war with NATO; that NATO do have boots on the ground in Ukraine etc.
The bigger threat of a disproportionate reaction was Ukraine committing attacks inside Russia - which they done. The response to that has been the intensified bombings but no increase in the nuclear threat.
German-made tanks ever cross into Russian territory (Inc Crimea) then could ratchet up Russian public opinion.

I'm quite shocked that Germany has been knocking out these tanks at such a rate . Never knew the German heavy armaments industry was so active .
Seeing the iron cross on the side of those tanks leaves me feeling a bit uncomfortable to be honest !

Kieranp96 · Jan 25, 2023

Tanks now soon F16's and more , even though Russia is gaining a lot of ground at the moment compared to previous months, when that floor hardens up and Ukraine soldiers are trained up on tanks then we will see a Kharkhiv situation down south .

tisza · Jan 26, 2023

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I'm quite shocked that Germany has been knocking out these tanks at such a rate . Never knew the German heavy armaments industry was so active .
Seeing the iron cross on the side of those tanks leaves me feeling a bit uncomfortable to be honest !

To the Germans it was just another manufacturing business - mainly for export. Ukraine war has changed that mindset. Going to see real increases in theirs ( and other EU countries) military spending. One for Russia, two to reduce the reliance on the US and it's less reliable political mindset.
Germany more than any other country had got Russia situation wrong. It's amazing they did so seeing as a large part of their country had been under Russian control for such a long period.

Flying Fokker · Jan 26, 2023

Not sure what to say about this, other than I am lost for words! They Want their ball back and are short an authority figure to tell them that it’s ok, we have loads more.

I posted, really because this is typical, uncontrollable Russian media. They, say that it is us who will press the red button but in the same conversation i feel the left hand is pulling the right hand back in this debate.

shmmeee · Jan 26, 2023

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Russia will react very badly to any German tanks used against them. 25 million dead is rammed home in Russia. They've not forgotten and that's understandable.

Not sure why we’re bothered about how Russia react, they’ve hardly been pulling their punches so far.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jan 26, 2023

tisza said:
To the Germans it was just another manufacturing business - mainly for export. Ukraine war has changed that mindset. Going to see real increases in theirs ( and other EU countries) military spending. One for Russia, two to reduce the reliance on the US and it's less reliable political mindset.
Germany more than any other country had got Russia situation wrong. It's amazing they did so seeing as a large part of their country had been under Russian control for such a long period.

I'm a bit confused about those Leopard tanks currently being used by many other European countries. The news last night seemed to report that it was Germany's decision whether to allow those Leopard tanks to be sent to Ukraine. I don't get it. Are these tanks "on loan" to other countries or purchased outright ? Surely if it's the latter that country has the right to decide for itself. You don't buy tanks and then be told by the manufacturer where you can or can't deploy them. Or am I missing something ?

tisza · Jan 26, 2023

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I'm a bit confused about those Leopard tanks currently being used by many other European countries. The news last night seemed to report that it was Germany's decision whether to allow those Leopard tanks to be sent to Ukraine. I don't get it. Are these tanks "on loan" to other countries or purchased outright ? Surely if it's the latter that country has the right to decide for itself. You don't buy tanks and then be told by the manufacturer where you can or can't deploy them. Or am I missing something ?

Armaments need special govt export license. In these are conditions basically saying for the exclusive use of the purchaser or something similar. It's to control ( in theory) where arms are ending up ég countries buying arms then reselling them to "problem" countries. Also applies to many products that could be used in weapons manufacturing, space technology, guidance systems and so on.

tisza · Jan 26, 2023

Flying Fokker said:
Not sure what to say about this, other than I am lost for words! They Want their ball back and are short an authority figure to tell them that it’s ok, we have loads more.

I posted, really because this is typical, uncontrollable Russian media. They, say that it is us who will press the red button but in the same conversation i feel the left hand is pulling the right hand back in this debate.

It's state controlled media. It's very much aimed at domestic consumption for the regional masses as being their main source of news. Don't forget it is still a 10 year sentence for openly criticizing Putin's Ukraine policies.

Again the mobilizations/conscriptions etc are focused in the region's rather than the major cities. The major cities start amassing casualties then becomes more difficult for govt to control the narrative as well as unrest becomes more high profile.

dutchman · Jan 28, 2023

Skybluefaz · Jan 28, 2023

dutchman said:

Seems legit.

stay_up_skyblues · Jan 28, 2023

Skybluefaz said:
Seems legit.

Iran drone strike targets defence factory as blaze engulfs facility

In one dramatic clip, a flash of light and an explosion can be seen near some buildings along the Imam Khomeini Expressway.

www.express.co.uk

tisza · Jan 29, 2023

Flying Fokker said:
Iranian arms factories have been bombed in the last 24 hours.

Iran drone strike targets defence factory as blaze engulfs facility

In one dramatic clip, a flash of light and an explosion can be seen near some buildings along the Imam Khomeini Expressway.

www.express.co.uk

Going to happen more often. Iranian support for Russia could well see the sharing of nuclear technology between the two countries as the price for this support.

Flying Fokker · Jan 29, 2023

tisza said:
Going to happen more often. Iranian support for Russia could well see the sharing of nuclear technology between the two countries as the price for this support.

They need to wind their neck in. Israel (My non partisan view), will not let that happen. I wonder who sent the drones over? It can’t be Ukraine surely?

tisza · Jan 29, 2023

Flying Fokker said:
They need to wind their neck in. Israel (My non partisan view), will not let that happen. I wonder who sent the drones over? It can’t be Ukraine surely?

Israeli. They have some of the "best" military drone technology

Kieranp96 · Jan 30, 2023

tisza said:
Israeli. They have some of the "best" military drone technology

And they’re meeting in Ukraine in the coming days , hopefully they give in and give Ukraine some advance drones and advance anti drone systems.

Sbarcher · Jan 31, 2023

Just watched the 3 episodes on iPlayer of Putin v the West.
Like WW2 we (the West) have appeased Putin and let him get away literally with murder which has enboldened his dream of re-instating the USSR empire. it's a great watch.

tisza · Jan 31, 2023

Sbarcher said:
Just watched the 3 episodes on iPlayer of Putin v the West.
Like WW2 we (the West) have appeased Putin and let him get away literally with murder which has enboldened his dream of re-instating the USSR empire. it's a great watch.

absolutely.
Theme is constant in the "West" that trade and money can change mindsets/political systems etc.
"Less liberal" regimes interpret the "West" as weak due to the perception that policies on issues such as immigration, equality, free speech, human rights show Govt weakness.
Putin has been speaking & writing about reestablishing Soviet sphere of influence as far back as 2007/8. He's backed the "other side" in many of the recent conflicts that have involved Western powers

Flying Fokker · Jan 31, 2023

eastwoodsdustman · Jan 31, 2023

Flying Fokker said:

The old bloke at about5 minutes gets it almost right just the wrong side.
It’s scary that the russian publics views are so blinkered

tisza · Jan 31, 2023

eastwoodsdustman said:
The old bloke at about5 minutes gets it almost right just the wrong side.
It’s scary that the russian publics views are so blinkered

Have to remember these "older" interviewees also grew up in (and were educated by) a system that was anti-West already.
There's little independent media (any negative or attempts to report the happenings in Ukraine is still punishable by up to 15 years in prison) so people often just parroting the govt media - again much the same as Communist times.
Also Russians hugely nationalistic which means it takes a lot for them to speak out against their own country - something the Govt plays on massively.

PVA · Feb 1, 2023

Looks like the US are sending some longer range systems to Ukraine.

2-3x the range of HIMARS, which themselves had a really big impact on the war.

tisza · Feb 1, 2023

PVA said:
Looks like the US are sending some longer range systems to Ukraine.

2-3x the range of HIMARS, which themselves had a really big impact on the war.

Russia launches a push then it's anti aircraft defence & tank "killers" they need now. Italy & France were talking about sending some.

Flying Fokker · Feb 1, 2023

Kieranp96 · Feb 5, 2023

Seems the Eastern front for Ukraine is about to collapse to the next major defensive line, they need more equipment ASAP.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 5, 2023

Kieranp96 said:
Seems the Eastern front for Ukraine is about to collapse to the next major defensive line, they need more equipment ASAP.

Sleepy Joe doesn’t want to escalate though.

Kieranp96 · Feb 5, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Sleepy Joe doesn’t want to escalate though.

As I said to a friend the other day we’re in this war now in every way but troops, we’re a country at war like the us Poland ect.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 5, 2023

Kieranp96 said:
As I said to a friend the other day we’re in this war now in every way but troops, we’re a country at war like the us Poland ect.

If most people agree that Putin isn't going to use nukes either way, just air bomb his garbage army and get it done

USSR invades Ukraine. (73 Viewers)

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