Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Such borderline decisions that can judge a player offside by half an inch is ridiculous.
VAR needs an overhaul (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Voice_of_Reason
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Otis
Well-Known Member
Completely with you. Don't scrap it. Just ditch the microscope, slide rule stuff.
They should have taken one look at that yesterday and said that's too close to call and there is no obvious error.
Use it for stuff like ......
was the tackle made inside or outside the penalty area, for pens (again, if too close to call, go with the ref's on-field decision)
If a player was clearly in his own half for a through ball when a goal is scored and an offside decision has been given.
For stuff that's missed. I.e. an off the ball elbow or punch etc.
To check if the keeper has one foot still on the line for penalties. Again, if it's not instantly clear that his foot isn't on the line, go with the on-field.
I think it needs refining re bad tackles too. They so very often look much worse in slo-mo
Basically, just use a common sense approach. None of this "pull out the microscope" nonsense.
Of course managers would sometimes complain, but it would be fairer. As has been said, the technology isn't good enough to make these microscopic decisions.
Use it for the above and then along with goal line technology, it will be a much better spectacle to watch.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Use only for fact
If you can’t be certain make sure you can be before using it
If you can’t be certain make sure you can be before using it
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with Otis.
There IS a place for VAR. It's the current implementation of it which is poor.
In a way I'm glad we aren't in the prem and have to deal with this every week. You can never truly celebrate a goal with VAR around and it's just killing moments of magic and strangling the game.
There IS a place for VAR. It's the current implementation of it which is poor.
In a way I'm glad we aren't in the prem and have to deal with this every week. You can never truly celebrate a goal with VAR around and it's just killing moments of magic and strangling the game.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Or at the very least, give the advantage of uncertainty to the attacker. Football is about celebrating goals, not robbing people of that.
hinckley cov
Well-Known Member
Don’t think there’s any place for var , go back to the ref and linesman doing their jobs
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yeah should be daylight between the two lines at least.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
Didn't spot that.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Think he’s played on in the middle
It’s the same with Ohare being fouled after playing the ball forward
You can’t check everything
The overhaul is very straightforward - haul it all into the Thames and be done with it.
Just look at the Premier League thread on this forum - just endless moaning about why VAR was used for this, but not for that. Once the toys are out of the box, you will always have people whinging that it needs to be used for everything, else it’s not fair - and so it’s turned out to be. It’s time to put the toys away.
Just look at the Premier League thread on this forum - just endless moaning about why VAR was used for this, but not for that. Once the toys are out of the box, you will always have people whinging that it needs to be used for everything, else it’s not fair - and so it’s turned out to be. It’s time to put the toys away.
Yorkshire SB
Well-Known Member
Going to happen isn’t it? Wenger pushing for it. Basically looking for daylight between the attacker and defender for it to be considered offside.
So potential that if we played yesterday’s games with the rules for next season, we’d have won.
So potential that if we played yesterday’s games with the rules for next season, we’d have won.
Would revolutionary 'Arsenal Wenger offside law' be the ultimate VAR solution football needs? | Goal.com UK
Reports have suggested that IFAB are considering implementing a new Arsene Wenger-inspired offside rule to help stop VAR controversies - but would it really make a difference?
www.goal.com
Otis
Well-Known Member
I disagree.
If it needs a line drawn to see if someone is offside, then simply don't draw the line and go with the referee's decision.
It's not rocket science and I don't think they will now ever get rid of it. I think it's here to stay, so it needs modifying and overhauling.
Stop drawing lines. It's either obvious, or it's not. If you are having to draw a line, it's not obvious.
Theonlywayisskyblue
Well-Known Member
Watched the BBC highlights last night and surprised none of the pundits really questioned it. Apparently not on the live coverage either ? At very best it was highly marginal
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
They’re used to it - they trust the tech
Theonlywayisskyblue
Well-Known Member
Cricket works well when the marginal decisions given not out by the umpire are never over-ruled but left as umpire's call to reflect a margin of error. Yesterday was a true umpire's call as it wasn't given on-field
How is that cOnSiStENT though? What happens when one ref wants to draw a line where another one wouldn’t bother?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
But the Lino may give a different decision if that’s the case
I’m over the conspiracy shit but still annoyed with the law. It’s too close to give
Wrong headed for the game itself and the game at Large
Gynnsthetonic
Well-Known Member
The more I look at it the more he's onside, the ball hadn't been released and the line over the players foot, something wrong there, how can someone not even there on a laptop decide that, feel totally cheated
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The huge question mark is when it leaves his foot
In what universe should this ever be a “huge question” in a game as gloriously bonkers as the one we saw yesterday?
This is why VAR is total shite. We’re catering to babies instead of watching the fucking game.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
But if that’s the rule maybe the link flags but I agree totally
If you think that all referees are going to agree on what they’re able to decide with their naked eye then I have some extremely bad news for you about human error
Otis
Well-Known Member
But common sense tells you, you can look at an image and see that two objects are close to each other and would need a much longer and closer look to see which is ahead of which.
It's very simple really. Give them 10, 15, 20 seconds to look at it, max .
Instantly yesterday, you could see that needed a line to see if he was offside or not. If you need the line, don't draw the line.
Pretty obvious when you need to draw a line or not isn't it.
If it looks really close, stick with the referee's decision.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
We can all judge clear and obvious surely. If you can't immediately see it with the naked eye, it's not obvious.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
They should pull out the microscope and look at the fact most referees are duped time and time again by diving cheating players, getting away scot-free, why can't VAR intervene during an incident and get the ref to yellow card the cheats after the event, its poisoning the game and is corrupt, players cannot gamble so why are they allowed to cheat !!
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Never been a fan of Var (see numerous other posts and threads) and it needs to go. But it won’t cos the tv pundits love it as it keeps their ‘expert opinions’ in the limelight. It makes refs and Lino’s dither about decisions…perhaps without var the Lino would have raised his flag yesterday, maybe not…we will never know.
Goaline Technology fine but everything else is not fit for purpose. Those who call for ‘daylight’ between attacker and defender are calling for a change in the laws of the game not the application of technology. That’s all well and good but where do you stop …how much daylight etc etc. the offside law is simple but football is a fast moving game…accept officials make mistakes ..I can take that rather than the wait for someone in a booth far away getting out a slide rule and measuring a player’s toenail. As others say until we have the technology to determine the exact moment a ball is played and the position of every player on the pitch at that moment (and a camera at right angles to the touchline at every inch to ensure an exact angle to judge an offside) it is not fit for purpose.
PUSB
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Goaline Technology fine but everything else is not fit for purpose. Those who call for ‘daylight’ between attacker and defender are calling for a change in the laws of the game not the application of technology. That’s all well and good but where do you stop …how much daylight etc etc. the offside law is simple but football is a fast moving game…accept officials make mistakes ..I can take that rather than the wait for someone in a booth far away getting out a slide rule and measuring a player’s toenail. As others say until we have the technology to determine the exact moment a ball is played and the position of every player on the pitch at that moment (and a camera at right angles to the touchline at every inch to ensure an exact angle to judge an offside) it is not fit for purpose.
PUSB
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Otis
Well-Known Member
I get what you are saying, but let me put this to you. Did anyone, anyone at all, upon seeing that yesterday, believe that was obviously offside? Fans, managers, pundits?
The answer is no-one did, so there can be a general rule of thumb applied.
Obviously some instances will be clearer than yesterday. But yesterday, no-one could tell that was offside on first glance. No-one.
There's your answer.
But none of these decisions are actually “pretty obvious”, or “common sense”, or “very simple really”, are they? They’re complex and incredibly fast decisions being made in real time by humans, that are impossible to decide without someone disagreeing and getting upset. Even with slomo, replays, 3D mapping, whatever you want to use - reasonable people will disagree when it’s actual people making the decisions.
You claim that technology can actually take away all the uncertainty and the nuance - you’re really just asking someone else to make the same human, flawed decision in front of their computer instead of on the pitch. You’re just outsourcing people’s inevitable anger at decisions to people further and further away from the game itself, slowing the game down more and more, changing the rules bit by bit. Are you happy with the results?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
That decision yesterday was pretty obvious.
No-one thought it was offside on first viewing.
VAR should be used for things officials have missed. Clear and obvious errors.
There was clearly no obvious error there. I get what you are saying and some are more difficult to judge, but on first viewing, no-one could say that one yesterday was off. Hence the reason they had to draw a line.
I actually have an even more foolproof idea for avoiding VAR mistakes…
Home and Away!
Well-Known Member
This kinda sums it up.posted via a Leeds fan.....