VAR tonight (4 Viewers)

lord_garrincha · Feb 8, 2019

No sport treats fans with more contempt than football - supporters are not idiots | Daily Mail Online

Interesting article about fans in the ground not seeing VAR decisions in Champions League KO rounds. The point about having access to instant replays on twitter etc took me back to Meadow Lane... how many of us got a text saying Forte was onside, and that Max/Sparky were offside for the 3rd.

But seriously, it's a poor world we live in if the person who spends their hard earned to go to the game is treated worse than a person who has an illegal feed at home!

Liquid Gold · Feb 8, 2019

Couldn't they fit a camera track on the roof of the stand and program it to be in line/have some bloke controlling it.

Paul Anthony · Mar 6, 2019

Took about 4 minutes tonight to decide if Ajax's third goal should stand, or if it had gone out for a throw or had been handballed in the build up. Trouble was there was no camera angle that could provide a definitive answer to either. Goal given in the end.

Should it have been a throw in? Well, how can anyone truly tell from these camera angles? If there's that much doubt, it has to be benefit of doubt to the team who scored every time, surely?

SBAndy · Mar 6, 2019

Scenes again tonight. Very harsh handball given and Man Utd go through.

RoboCCFC90 · Mar 6, 2019

SBAndy said:
Scenes again tonight. Very harsh handball given and Man Utd go through.

I disagree.

Kimpembe knows exactly what he’s doing, he turns his back and has a little look to see where the ball was, the ref didn’t have to give it, but he’s seen enough to say it was a pen and I’d have to agree.

chiefdave · Mar 6, 2019

Just make it contact with the hand / arm is always a foul. Remove the doubt.

skybluesam66 · Mar 6, 2019

chiefdave said:
Just make it contact with the hand / arm is always a foul. Remove the doubt.

Disagree - you will have forwards deliberately flicking the ball onto a defender;s arm
Defenders are already not allowed to tackle, now they will not even be allowed to get in the way

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 6, 2019

SBAndy said:
Scenes again tonight. Very harsh handball given and Man Utd go through.

Do you know the law?

Otis · Mar 7, 2019

skybluesam66 said:
Disagree - you will have forwards deliberately flicking the ball onto a defender;s arm
Defenders are already not allowed to tackle, now they will not even be allowed to get in the way

Yep. You make it any ball to hand and forwards will just deliberately aim to hit the ball at defenders arms.

It would all result in a farce unfortunately.

PurpleBin · Mar 7, 2019

Looked a penalty to me. Arm in an un-natural position...?

What alarms me is that Tuchel believes it shouldn't have stood because the initial shot waan't on target! Unreal. Can't help but really dislike PSG and the general shithouse behaviour they show with every game.

ovduk78 · Mar 7, 2019

chiefdave said:
Just make it contact with the hand / arm is always a foul. Remove the doubt.

Weren't they trying something in the women's international tournament last summer that if the ball hits another part of the body and then hits the hand then it isn't a penalty? There surely have to be times when a player can't get out of the way when it shouldn't be a penalty.

I_Saw_Shaw_Score · Mar 7, 2019

Genuine question- is the only way to defend by having your arms behind your back like a speed skater?

It’ll become a joke players will run at defenders get into the box and flick it up at the defender to try and hit the arm! (Don’t people do that in field hockey for a penalty corner?)

Also what’s the point in when a decision is reviewed going back to the onfield ref to decide? You know as soon as he’s told to review the VAR ref suspects a pen you knew it’d be given!

chiefdave · Mar 7, 2019

skybluesam66 said:
Disagree - you will have forwards deliberately flicking the ball onto a defender;s arm
Defenders are already not allowed to tackle, now they will not even be allowed to get in the way

But if you look at what's being given and what the refs on BT Sport are saying about how they've been told to interpret the rule its pretty much that anyway. Last nights for example, he wasn't leaping with his arms out or in an unusual position but you had all the players in the studio saying no pen and the ref saying 100% definitely a pen.

So either you relax the law and allow more instances when the hand is used, and we all know defenders will be claiming accidental when it wasn't, or you make all handling of the ball a foul.

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 7, 2019

It changed the direction of the ball so I would say a penalty also it was worth it to see how the little creature Neymar has taken it.

Top penalty though by a young lad with nerves of steel.

tisza · Mar 7, 2019

makes me laugh.
Got former refs saying it wouldn't be a pen in PL.
Yet you've got 3 qualified refs involved in the VAR process last night saying it was.
Maybe that's why we're not seeing English refs at major tournaments recently
surely once you've got a player jumping in the air and turning his back it's far too subjective to work out what is an unnatural arm position

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 7, 2019

skybluesam66 said:
Disagree - you will have forwards deliberately flicking the ball onto a defender;s arm
Defenders are already not allowed to tackle, now they will not even be allowed to get in the way

We already see a lot of defenders put their arms behind their back to try and block shots. What if the attacker tries it and misses the hand/arm? There's a decent probability they'll lose possession and look stupid.

One thing I would say is that because instances of handball would become more frequent it would become a free-kick in the box rather than a penalty, with the ref able to dish out a red card if they believe the defender was deliberately handballing to put defenders off doing it deliberately. Still left to ref's interpretation and therefore debate, but for me it'd be a lot clearer than now. I find intentional handball infuriating because there can be no intent but it can have a massive impact on the game overall and the rules should reflect that and remove ambiguity.

Another thing I'd probably like to see is to get rid of the uncertainty and ambiguity of injury time and have an official solely in charge of timekeeping and stopping the clock whenever there is an injury or the ball is not in play. Makes it extremely clear to all how much time is left and once that time is up the next time the ball goes out of play past that game is over (if there's a foul then the game will continue). Halves would probably only need to be 30mins.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 7, 2019

Frostie said:
Not easily.
As we all know to be certain about offside you need to be directly in line so you'd need every centimetre of the touchline to have a camera.

But quite often the assistant is not directly in line either and so his opinion is compromised by his position, plus he only gets to see it once in real time. You could always put a GoPro on them to provide an alternative side-on camera angle?

Frostie · Mar 7, 2019

RoboCCFC90 said:
I disagree.

Kimpembe knows exactly what he’s doing, he turns his back and has a little look to see where the ball was, the ref didn’t have to give it, but he’s seen enough to say it was a pen and I’d have to agree.

No handball decision should ever be watched in slow motion for VAR, makes it look a lot more intentional when in truth it happens in a split second.

Fact is VAR is only for "clear & obvious errors" yet here we are debating it yet again so hardly clear & obvious! :shifty:

Never a penalty for me but, on a lighter note, it almost serves him right for turning his back on the ball, coward! :joyful:

The Great Eastern · Mar 7, 2019

On 5Live last night, they quoted the rule which is that if the ball hits the hand/arm of a defender and the ball would have gone into the net otherwise, deliberate or otherwise, a penalty must be awarded. Whether the ball was goal bound last night or not, the ref clearly thought it was. Personally, it looks like it might have gone over the bar from the highlights I saw but I ain't the ref...

vow · Mar 7, 2019

SBAndy said:
Scenes again tonight. Very harsh handball given and Man Utd go through.

Captain Dart · Mar 7, 2019

The Great Eastern said:
On 5Live last night, they quoted the rule which is that if the ball hits the hand/arm of a defender and the ball would have gone into the net otherwise, deliberate or otherwise, a penalty must be awarded. Whether the ball was goal bound last night or not, the ref clearly thought it was. Personally, it looks like it might have gone over the bar from the highlights I saw but I ain't the ref...

Looked like it was on the way in to me.

tisza · Mar 8, 2019

It's A UEFA competition with their guidance on the rules. Not what may or not have happened in a PL game.

Covstu · Mar 16, 2019

Red card that wasn’t a red for United? Just not a fan but to be fair it wasn’t a clear decision

chiefdave · Mar 16, 2019

Covstu said:
Red card that wasn’t a red for United? Just not a fan but to be fair it wasn’t a clear decision

The problem is they don't seem to be using the system correctly. Its only supposed to be overturned if its an clear error. Don't see how you apply that to the red.

Macca · Mar 17, 2019

How can you have a competition with one quarter final having VAR and another not?

stupot07 · Mar 17, 2019

It has to be all or none. You can't have some games in a given competition with VAR and some without.

Swansea may well have clung on if they had VAR in that game, United certainly would have had 10 men without it.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

PurpleBin · Mar 17, 2019

stupot07 said:
It has to be all or none. You can't have some games in a given competition with VAR and some without.

Swansea may well have clung on if they had VAR in that game, United certainly would have had 10 men without it.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Agreed. If Swansea v City was at the Etihad they go through 2-1.

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 17, 2019

Frostie said:
No handball decision should ever be watched in slow motion for VAR, makes it look a lot more intentional when in truth it happens in a split second.

Fact is VAR is only for "clear & obvious errors" yet here we are debating it yet again so hardly clear & obvious! :shifty:

Never a penalty for me but, on a lighter note, it almost serves him right for turning his back on the ball, coward! :joyful:

Doesn’t have to be intentional for a penalty to be given

SBAndy · Mar 17, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Doesn’t have to be intentional for a penalty to be given

Actually it does. The ruling is deliberate handball.

PurpleBin · Mar 17, 2019

SBAndy said:
Actually it does. The ruling is deliberate handball.

Isn't that the new rule being discussed?

Paul Anthony · Mar 17, 2019

Brighton should have won their game In the last minute of extra time. Ruled out for offside, wrongly. No VAR in use.

They do win the shootout in sudden death though.

CanadianCCFC · Mar 17, 2019

Wouldn’t have won if the Millwall keeper could catch

Paul Anthony · Mar 17, 2019

CanadianCCFC said:
Wouldn’t have won if the Millwall keeper could catch

That was a shocker. It was a rookie error too, didn't get his thumbs behind it in the "w" shape.

SBAndy · Mar 17, 2019

Paul Anthony said:
That was a shocker. It was a rookie error too, didn't get his thumbs behind it in the "w" shape.

I thought he was trying to slap it away as opposed to catching it. Leeeeeeee Burgeeeeeee (I say in jest)

Paul Anthony · Mar 17, 2019

I don't think he knew what he was doing with it himself in all honesty! Got caught in two minds I think. Going to get a few texts from his mates about it though, no doubt.

VAR tonight (4 Viewers)

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