Victim of a Plague of Ghosts? (1 Viewer)

[Sick Boy]

If the manager doesn't really matter and it's all down to budget, why dont we just not have one?

 

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[mrtrench]

You cannot build a silk purse out of any pig's ear of a business in 12 months. The club appears to have been very badly managed for a very long time. My vote, if I had one, would be to give someone time to turn things around and not to put unrealistic short term expectations in their path. For that reason I'm for giving a manager several years. My only question is if Mowbray is the one I'd choose. If I'd seen evidence of him slowly building a good side it would be yes; however the evidence appears to be that he's mostly shipping in short-term contracts and loans.

 

[Grendel]

You're back. Are you going to answer the questions asked of you in post #2 now?

I don't care. It's not my job to find a manager - it's the clubs.

And yes managers can overachieve against their budgets and also they can underachieve. That's obvious.

The irony is it is people like me that it impacts the least as I will buy a season ticket. It's people like you - i bet if the club continued to win games after the turn if the year you'd have been to more games. Floating fans are not going that should set alarm bells ringing.

So I fail to see why naming a replacement is of any importance. There will be 60 plus applicants - there always are and I am sure plenty could do a better job.

If I was chairman I'd have sacked him weeks ago and targeted a short impact manager as Rotherham have done and paid a big bonus if they'd got us promoted.

I've been saying for months we were lurching and no one would listen.

We needed promotion - we should have ended this farce a long time ago.

 

[Gint11]

We won't have any short term or long term success while we are being owned by a hedge fund. Neither will be self sufficient. In order to do that, we need a sell out week in week out at least and it isn't going to happen unless we make the Premier league, and to do that, we need investment.


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[bawtryneal]

I don't care. It's not my job to find a manager - it's the clubs.

And yes managers can overachieve against their budgets and also they can underachieve. That's obvious.

The irony is it is people like me that it impacts the least as I will buy a season ticket. It's people like you - i bet if the club continued to win games after the turn if the year you'd have been to more games. Floating fans are not going that should set alarm bells ringing.

So I fail to see why naming a replacement is of any importance. There will be 60 plus applicants - there always are and I am sure plenty could do a better job.

If I was chairman I'd have sacked him weeks ago and targeted a short impact manager as Rotherham have done and paid a big bonus if they'd got us promoted.

I've been saying for months we were lurching and no one would listen.

We needed promotion - we should have ended this farce a long time ago.

i must say I agree with you regarding Rotherham and Neil Warnock. I am very close to the owners at Rotherham and if I am not at a Cov game I often go to the NYS. My company is sponsoring Rotherham next season and I am delighted they are staying up as we are paying a League 1 deal rather than a Championship deal.
However, Warnock has really over achieved in the last ten weeks and probably won't be at Rotherham next season due to personal issues.
Along with Ranieri he has massively over achieved but proven over season after season the team with the biggest budget finishes top and the team with the smallest finishes bottom. Not quite, but you get my point.

 

[mrtrench]

We won't have any short term or long term success while we are being owned by a hedge fund. Neither will be self sufficient. In order to do that, we need a sell out week in week out at least and it isn't going to happen unless we make the Premier league, and to do that, we need investment.

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I respectfully disagree, IMO it is imperative that we live within our means and build up slowly. We are where we are today because of over-spending in the past. It may be true that football in the premier league is funded by over-spending but it's a bubble - it cannot continue.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't care. It's not my job to find a manager - it's the clubs.

And yes managers can overachieve against their budgets and also they can underachieve. That's obvious.

The irony is it is people like me that it impacts the least as I will buy a season ticket. It's people like you - i bet if the club continued to win games after the turn if the year you'd have been to more games. Floating fans are not going that should set alarm bells ringing.

So I fail to see why naming a replacement is of any importance. There will be 60 plus applicants - there always are and I am sure plenty could do a better job.

If I was chairman I'd have sacked him weeks ago and targeted a short impact manager as Rotherham have done and paid a big bonus if they'd got us promoted.

I've been saying for months we were lurching and no one would listen.

We needed promotion - we should have ended this farce a long time ago.

Grendull in double standards shocker.

It isn't your job to sack the manager either. Funny how we can't shut you up on that given it's not your job.

And then you start chatting shit again. I've been to more games since Xmas than I did before. I'm a fan who goes to as many games as I can a season. I've told you this numerous times before. I'm not precious about which competition, day of the week or form. If I'm available I will go and I will go again this season if only it's for the final home game.

If you're sure plenty of 60 applicants you're expecting could do a better job why can't you name plenty?

 

[Shakeitup]

So another season has died and ends with a sense of crushing disappointment and anti-climax. All this from a position of strength and dizzy heights in the league which we have not been accustomed to.

There have been so many theories surrounding the demise - some of which are so conspiratorial they are not worthy of scrutiny.

The managerial performance, however, most certainly does. The frequent bickering about budgets really though needs to be looked at rationally. The club was top of the league. Top 6 looked a certainty and a less than average performance post October would still have delivered that. The abject failure to do so cannot be over-looked.

The club decided to appoint a manager who has a higher pedigree than this league. He wanted the structure to be to liking and the backroom staff he wanted. He was given his wish.

He has since October failed to deliver on many counts.

Inflexible team selection
Indulging the Cole Experiment (an unmitigated disaster as predicted)
A plethora of appalling signings who have achieved nothing post January but his permanent signings all in fact look suspect
A refusal to address the goalkeeping issue
Poor use of the budget at the start of the season

Managers fit well at some clubs and some situations. Mowbray seemingly lacks the flexibility and adaptability for this league and his stubborn refusal to adapt does not bode well at all.


The quality of football is poor and defences find us easy to deal with. If this persists relegation is a certainty next year.

Anderson needs to act. Mowbray has not been a victim of the curse of Coventry past. He is not the victim of those ghostsis at all. He has adequate resources. He is the victim of his own shortcomings and intransigence.

He has to go

Totally agree with all of that. At this point in time I'd like it if Anderson could instigate a "ground zero" moment: get rid of all coaching staff (Oggy included) and start again!

I know that TM tried to start change: painting the changing rooms, putting up the club crest, fixing the car park etc.

However, like Grendel has said, his managerial ineptness is glaring.

Anyone else in any other profession performing so badly would have been sacked months ago!

"Sorry chief surgeon, I know I messed up that last operation, I forgot what to do, I can't explain it, the rest of the staff are tired!"

 

[Grendel]

Grendull in double standards shocker.

It isn't your job to sack the manager either. Funny how we can't shut you up on that given it's not your job.

And then you start chatting shit again. I've been to more games since Xmas than I did before. I'm a fan who goes to as many games as I can a season. I've told you this numerous times before. I'm not precious about which competition, day of the week or form. If I'm available I will go and I will go again this season if only it's for the final home game.

If you're sure plenty of 60 applicants you're expecting could do a better job why can't you name plenty?

Many people agree with me on here that Mowbray needs to go. Yet none offered a successors name.

When Pressley (who performed no worse than Mowbray actually) was hounded on here no one was interested in naming the successor. I did actually say I would like a certain Burton manager but was generally mocked for it.

As for more games since Christmas I suspect it's a case of one game before and Walsall and Burton after - am I right?

How many of the last 3 you going to?

 

[skybluetony176]

Many people agree with me on here that Mowbray needs to go. Yet none offered a successors name.

When Pressley (who performed no worse than Mowbray actually) was hounded on here no one was interested in naming the successor. I did actually say I would like a certain Burton manager but was generally mocked for it.

As for more games since Christmas I suspect it's a case of one game before and Walsall and Burton after - am I right?

How many of the last 3 you going to?

No. As always you are wrong.

 

[Grendel]

No. As always you are wrong.

It's not as always though is it?

Your toe curling post after the bury game was as I stated at the time a blip. I said Cole was a disaster - your view "potentially the signing of the season" I said we'd win hardly any games after December if we retained this manager.

The crowds are down people are disaffected. Managers don't recover often and do we really want to waste a summer with the real chance he will fail again as then he will be gone before August is over anyway.

 

[bringbackrattles]

If the manager doesn't really matter and it's all down to budget, why dont we just not have one?

Remember when Watford kept changing their managers before settling with their current one ? Troy Deeney was interviewed on Football Focus and asked if it affected the players with all the chopping and changing ? He replied : " No not at all,as we know where to play and what to do and to be honest we don't really bother who's in charge." I thought how honest he was and it got me thinking back then,what does a manager do anyway,as some seem to be clueless and if you know your job you don't need telling do you ?

 

[skybluetony176]

It's not as always though is it?

Your toe curling post after the bury game was as I stated at the time a blip. I said Cole was a disaster - your view "potentially the signing of the season" I said we'd win hardly any games after December if we retained this manager.

The crowds are down people are disaffected. Managers don't recover often and do we really want to waste a summer with the real chance he will fail again as then he will be gone before August is over anyway.

I wonder who said this?

"But you said by his standards of managerial capability he is of league one standard.

I'm sure I am in the minority but I disagree."

 

[Grendel]

I wonder who said this?

"But you said by his standards of managerial capability he is of league one standard.

I'm sure I am in the minority but I disagree."

Sigh - which is why I mentioned premier league managers who all would fail here.

There is every chance Mowbray will get a job at a championship club - he clearly isn't a league one manager - and hasn't managed to adapt into one.

 

[skybluetony176]

Sigh - which is why I mentioned premier league managers who all would fail here.

There is every chance Mowbray will get a job at a championship club - he clearly isn't a league one manager - and hasn't managed to adapt into one.

Was Dean Smith a league one manager?

 

[skybluetony176]

Sigh - which is why I mentioned premier league managers who all would fail here.

There is every chance Mowbray will get a job at a championship club - he clearly isn't a league one manager - and hasn't managed to adapt into one.

By your own "logic" Robins also isn't a league one manager, or championship manager by the same token yet you've continually mentioned him as a replacement? You're one confused human being.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Sigh - which is why I mentioned premier league managers who all would fail here.

There is every chance Mowbray will get a job at a championship club - he clearly isn't a league one manager - and hasn't managed to adapt into one.

What nonsense, there is no such thing as a "League One" manager. For example what training & qualities did JFH bring to the task?

Hold on, of course he wasn't really a League One manger, he was a Championship manager in disguise, that's why he had to leave Burton when they were top of the League, in case his cover was blown like Mowbrays!

 

[shy_tall_knight]

A major factor why i think TM shouldn't be sacked is the cost, our budget is fixed and the payoffs will eat into that making it even harder for the new appointment. There will be a counter argument that the costs of failure are significant also but I'm hoping that they have got agreed targets with some cash from madders, we get suitable replacements less lightweight less pensioners.

 

[dongonzalos]

I don't care. It's not my job to find a manager - it's the clubs.

Told you Hobo makes perfect sense when you think about it.

It's not Grendels job to pick the team so he never makes a comment about that.
It's wasn't his Job to sell ACL to Wasps so he hasn't passed comment on that.
It's not his job to sack Mowbray so he would never utter those words.
It's not his job to sign players so he never suggest who we should or shouldn't sign.
Also when people wanted Pressely sacked nobody suggested who they would like instead. Even If you remember it happening on here, it is a fake memory

 

[Nick]

If we keep Mowbray he needs to have the whole season. If he gets his own players and squad pre season, theres no point getting rid in October leaving the club with loads of players a new manager might not want.

The other option is to get rid before the pre season and giving a new manager the "clear slate", but I can't see it happening.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I'm still on the fence. The first 18 games were excellent up to and including thrashing Gillingham to go 3 points ahead at the top of the table, but subsequent 23 games are unacceptable:

First 18 W11 D4 L3 GF36 GA19 Pts 37 ppg 2.06

Last 23 W4 D8 L11 GF23 GA26 Pts 20 ppg 0.87

You look at that and you'd say if this was any other manager but Mowbray the fans would be unanimously behind sacking him. Doesn't hello that this has also happened to him twice at Middleborough.

Its also interesting that defensive injuries are being blamed for tbr demise, but looking at the stats we're not conceding that many more now than we did on our great run (1.13 per game now v 1.06 per game), our attack however has well and truly been blunted, especially when we consider 11 of those 23 came in 2 games. It tells me that not only have players lost form, but teams have well and truly worked us outm

I'm really in 2 minds, I'm not overly convinced he can change it around next season but I do want stability, but like I said if this was pressley we'd be pretty much united on wanting him sacked.


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Pressley had been in the job almost 2 years by the time he was sacked, it was 18 months of crap before he finally got the chop.

The second half of the sixfields season was dreadful (quite similar to the run Mowbray has us on), yet he was given another season to turn it around. Whilst it didn't work out I do think at the time it was a sound decision to give him more time.

If Mowbray fails next season then I'd say it is time to go, at the moment he's had 12 months and we are in a better position than when he took us over. Its disappointing the way it has turned out from where we were but it is progress on last seasons relegation battle and final day escape. And imo, showing progress is enough reason for him to keep his job for next season.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If we keep Mowbray he needs to have the whole season. If he gets his own players and squad pre season, theres no point getting rid in October leaving the club with loads of players a new manager might not want.

The other option is to get rid before the pre season and giving a new manager the "clear slate", but I can't see it happening.

I agree. Although clubs have a tendency to sack managers just after the transfer window closes, just so their replacement is forbidden from spending cash!

 

[dongonzalos]

If we keep Mowbray he needs to have the whole season. If he gets his own players and squad pre season, theres no point getting rid in October leaving the club with loads of players a new manager might not want.

The other option is to get rid before the pre season and giving a new manager the "clear slate", but I can't see it happening.

Totally agree with your first paragraph
To Let a manager sign 9 players then sack him in Seotember Oct or after three games is dumb.
Just before the January transfer window if things really are bad IMO.

 

[Hobo]

I don't care. It's not my job to find a manager - it's the clubs.

And yes managers can overachieve against their budgets and also they can underachieve. That's obvious.

The irony is it is people like me that it impacts the least as I will buy a season ticket. It's people like you - i bet if the club continued to win games after the turn if the year you'd have been to more games. Floating fans are not going that should set alarm bells ringing.

So I fail to see why naming a replacement is of any importance. There will be 60 plus applicants - there always are and I am sure plenty could do a better job.

If I was chairman I'd have sacked him weeks ago and targeted a short impact manager as Rotherham have done and paid a big bonus if they'd got us promoted.

I've been saying for months we were lurching and no one would listen.

We needed promotion - we should have ended this farce a long time ago.

This goes against your theory:
Brian Clough Derby and Forrest
Shankley Liverpool
Royle Oldham
Ferguson Man United
Saunders Villa
all had mediocre starts and nearly got the sack. But given time gave those teams great successes.

Grendel you are the perfect capitalist demanding immediate results.

 

[Grendel]

This goes against your theory:
Brian Clough Derby and Forrest
Shankley Liverpool
Royle Oldham
Ferguson Man United
Saunders Villa
all had mediocre starts and nearly got the sack. But given time gave those teams great successes.

Grendel you are the perfect capitalist demanding immediate results.

And all were in the last century

 

[mrtrench]

And all were in the last century

Do people evolve in 16 years?

 

[Gazolba]

<snip> If I'd seen evidence of him slowly building a good side ...<snip>

Mowbray is doing half of what you are asking, he is 'slowly building', just not 'a good side' though.

 

[Dimi_Konstantflapalot]

I'm still on the fence. The first 18 games were excellent up to and including thrashing Gillingham to go 3 points ahead at the top of the table, but subsequent 23 games are unacceptable:

First 18 W11 D4 L3 GF36 GA19 Pts 37 ppg 2.06

Last 23 W4 D8 L11 GF23 GA26 Pts 20 ppg 0.87

You look at that and you'd say if this was any other manager but Mowbray the fans would be unanimously behind sacking him. Doesn't hello that this has also happened to him twice at Middleborough.

Its also interesting that defensive injuries are being blamed for tbr demise, but looking at the stats we're not conceding that many more now than we did on our great run (1.13 per game now v 1.06 per game), our attack however has well and truly been blunted, especially when we consider 11 of those 23 came in 2 games. It tells me that not only have players lost form, but teams have well and truly worked us outm

I'm really in 2 minds, I'm not overly convinced he can change it around next season but I do want stability, but like I said if this was pressley we'd be pretty much united on wanting him sacked.


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On the defensive point and goals conceded – I think it’s more to do with the type of goals than the quantity we’ve shipped on this poor run. I’d like to see the stats on set piece goals conceded with/without Reda, Turner & Cargill.

 

[skybluetony176]

And all were in the last century

Because thanks to fickle fans like you not many clubs will give managers time to build anything anymore. It's all now now now.

 

[SonofErnie]

Because thanks to fickle fans like you not many clubs will give managers time to build anything anymore. It's all now now now.

I don't think you can accuse Coventry fans of being fickle. 47 years without a top 6 finish is quite long enough!

Now, if you're talking about Man U fans who are up in arms about finishing 5th after 10+ titles in the last 20 years, or Newcastle fans who think they are the hardest done to, then I take your point.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't think you can accuse Coventry fans of being fickle. 47 years without a top 6 finish is quite long enough!

Now, if you're talking about Man U fans who are up in arms about finishing 5th after 10+ titles in the last 20 years, or Newcastle fans who think they are the hardest done to, then I take your point.

I don't know. We have our fair share same as any other club. There's been more than a few on here calling for TM's head while sighting managers such as Dean Smith at Walsall as a manager who's done well on a small budget blissfully ignorant to the fact that it took him the best part of five seasons to build that squad on that budget while calling for TM to go when actually he's achieved in a little over twelve months almost exactly what Dean Smith achieved in his first twelve months at Walsall. If that's not fickle I don't know what is.

 

[torchomatic]

Oh, I don't know. The first sign of failure; it's get 'em out, they ain't good enough, and the cycle starts again. Similar to slagging a player off before he even kicks a ball.

Reminds me of the Einstein quote: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I don't think you can accuse Coventry fans of being fickle. 47 years without a top 6 finish is quite long enough!

Now, if you're talking about Man U fans who are up in arms about finishing 5th after 10+ titles in the last 20 years, or Newcastle fans who think they are the hardest done to, then I take your point.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Oh, I don't know. The first sign of failure; it's get 'em out, they ain't good enough, and the cycle starts again. Similar to slagging a player off before he even kicks a ball.

Reminds me of the Einstein quote: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

To be fair Torch, first sign of failure would've been around the Xmas mark or even January. We're now 3 months past that point....

I get the Einstein quote and I agree but how long do we need to drop before action is taken?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

To be fair Torch, first sign of failure would've been around the Xmas mark or even January. We're now 3 months past that point....

I get the Einstein quote and I agree but how long do we need to drop before action is taken?

I don't disagree with taking action, I do think getting rid of the manager constantly deflects/postpones taking action where it's most needed.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I don't disagree with taking action, I do think getting rid of the manager constantly deflects/postpones taking action where it's most needed.

Until we get new owners though NW, we need to stay on top of taking action when needed in those areas where we can take action.

I hope to god that TM proves me wrong and builds a top half of the table team next season as I think it's obvious they won't sack him. If it was me though, I'd be trying to stop the slide further.