Victor Torp (2 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Why on earth is that 'clear'!

To state the obvious, you want to peak towards the end of the season when the most games are, right?

We’ve started slowly every season (barring season 2 in Championship). Even the year we won League 1, we won our first away game in December (v Wycombe). Particularly when we were rubbish (pre 2011/12), how many times did we win the league by September and tail off?

 

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[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

To state the obvious, you want to peak towards the end of the season when the most games are, right?

We’ve started slowly every season (barring season 2 in Championship). Even the year we won League 1, we won our first away game in December (v Wycombe). Particularly when we were rubbish (pre 2011/12), how many times did we win the league by September and tail off?

Problem is we’re giving the league a third of the season head start. It’s all well and good peaking at the end but that just limits us to pushing for the play offs.

Ipswich showed the way last season. Arguably you’re better getting ahead of the league

 

[Boicey]

To state the obvious, you want to peak towards the end of the season when the most games are, right?

We’ve started slowly every season (barring season 2 in Championship). Even the year we won League 1, we won our first away game in December (v Wycombe). Particularly when we were rubbish (pre 2011/12), how many times did we win the league by September and tail off?

So how do you think he 'sets the team up' different at the start and end of the season?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To state the obvious, you want to peak towards the end of the season when the most games are, right?

We’ve started slowly every season (barring season 2 in Championship). Even the year we won League 1, we won our first away game in December (v Wycombe). Particularly when we were rubbish (pre 2011/12), how many times did we win the league by September and tail off?

To state the even more obvious, if you’re consistently good throughout the season you’ll probably end up near the top.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

To state the obvious, you want to peak towards the end of the season when the most games are, right?

We’ve started slowly every season (barring season 2 in Championship). Even the year we won League 1, we won our first away game in December (v Wycombe). Particularly when we were rubbish (pre 2011/12), how many times did we win the league by September and tail off?

In fact - during the league one season we rarely dropped out of the play offs all season

 

[Perennial Lurker]

Problem is we’re giving the league a third of the season head start. It’s all well and good peaking at the end but that just limits us to pushing for the play offs.

Ipswich showed the way last season. Arguably you’re better getting ahead of the league

The Ipswich comparison is an anomaly.
I don't think anyone connected with the club would have said they would go up automatically last season .

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Lazy moody bastard I’d cancel his contract

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The Ipswich comparison is an anomaly.
I don't think anyone connected with the club would have said they would go up automatically last season .

Ipswich yes - but the idea is the same. Teams invariably do better when playing for the whole 46 game season. Not from game 15 onwards

I’d argue that it’s more common for a team to stay the course like Ipswich then do what Forest did - which people keep holding up as a shining example

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

In fact - during the league one season we rarely dropped out of the play offs all season

Which is not automatics. The reality is we entered the automatics and then top spot 2-3 weeks before the season ended. In relative terms, it’s a ‘slow start’.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Which is not automatics. The reality is we entered the automatics and then top spot 2-3 weeks before the season ended. In relative terms, it’s a ‘slow start’.

True - but we maintained touching distance throughout the season. We didn’t start 25 points back at any point - which is what we’ve done the last two season.
Pretty sure we were actually top for a couple of week early on in the season

Losing 2 games in your first 20 is hardly a slow start

 

[SBAndy]

I’ve not been able to watch the game back but my impression was the midfield was hampered by a lack of vertical ‘depth’ i.e. wingers sitting too deep and too wide. The lack of movement from both Allen and Torp wasn’t great either - you want each of them to be providing an easy out to the other but Allen in particular kept getting caught in possession.

You could tell Sakamoto’s positioning was off first half by the lack of ball he saw, whilst EMC you can maybe excuse slightly as it’s his first competitive game at this level and in our setup.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So how do you think he 'sets the team up' different at the start and end of the season?

It’s probably fitness related, the club probably plans to have players peaking leading up to Xmas period (for arguments sake). We’ve just had the olympics, so for context, athletes will often plan their cycles with the big events in mind so will often be performing at 80-90% in between those periods. The principles are more or less the same here.

Problem is we’re giving the league a third of the season head start. It’s all well and good peaking at the end but that just limits us to pushing for the play offs.

Ipswich showed the way last season. Arguably you’re better getting ahead of the league

It’s been 1 game and this is your reaction. Perhaps revisit these feelings after 10 games. Last season and the season before were different contexts entirely.

We lost one game which should’ve been a bore draw given that we didn’t concede in the first half.

Have patience and trust that Robins knows what he’s doing.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It’s probably fitness related, the club probably plans to have players peaking leading up to Xmas period (for arguments sake). We’ve just had the olympics, so for context, athletes will often plan their cycles with the big events in mind so will often be performing at 80-90% in between those periods. The principles are more or less the same here.


It’s been 1 game and this is your reaction. Perhaps revisit these feelings after 10 games. Last season and the season before were different contexts entirely.

We lost one game which should’ve been a bore draw given that we didn’t concede in the first half.

Have patience and trust that Robins knows what he’s doing.

Again I’ve said before - I’m confident. It’s more in relation to how we’ve started the seasons and talking about “peaking” as you’ve said we’ll see where we are in 10 games

there are obvious issues still. It was clear last season we needed to replace Hamer. We still haven’t - it’s glaringly obvious without Sheaf our CM is desperately weak - hopefully before the window is closed we bring in a new one

we need to keep in touch. We need 20 points from the next 9 games. Stoke was frustratingly one we could target 3 points.

 

[pusbccfc]

It’s such a shame he’s right footed.

Exactly my point

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Again I’ve said before - I’m confident. It’s more in relation to how we’ve started the seasons and talking about “peaking” as you’ve said we’ll see where we are in 10 games

there are obvious issues still. It was clear last season we needed to replace Hamer. We still haven’t - it’s glaringly obvious without Sheaf our CM is desperately weak - hopefully before the window is closed we bring in a new one

we need to keep in touch. We need 20 points from the next 9 games. Stoke was frustratingly one we could target 3 points.

I don’t think we’ll be good enough for automatics this season even if we sign 2 marquee players. Top 4 is realistic with those extra bodies that add quality, as I’ve said in previous threads, we haven’t actually improved our midfield or defensive options from last season. So I agree on those points and expect us to make signings before the deadline.

Comparing the team’s depth to relegated teams and Leeds, it’ll be a struggle to compete over 46 games. Our team was more or less at full strength against Stoke and after bringing on Wright, BTA and Eccles, there wasn’t any game changers on the bench, Palmer at a push.

 

[skybluecam]

Which is not automatics. The reality is we entered the automatics and then top spot 2-3 weeks before the season ended. In relative terms, it’s a ‘slow start’.

First 10 games: W5 D5 L0.

Don't try and spin that as a "slow start".

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I don’t think we’ll be good enough for automatics this season even if we sign 2 marquee players. Top 4 is realistic with those extra bodies that add quality, as I’ve said in previous threads, we haven’t actually improved our midfield or defensive options from last season. So I agree on those points and expect us to make signings before the deadline.

Comparing the team’s depth to relegated teams and Leeds, it’ll be a struggle to compete over 46 games. Our team was more or less at full strength against Stoke and after bringing on Wright, BTA and Eccles, there wasn’t any game changers on the bench, Palmer at a push.

I don’t expect us to get autos - I don’t rule it out. I think we can compete, I don’t think there’s anything to fear and that we have an opportunity, but the problem is the slow starts

we’ll end up flogging ourselves for results at the end of the season trying to get into the play offs if we don’t start earlier. Didn’t Coleman target 15 points every 10 games to push the play offs?

 

[Otis]

I can take players trying things that don't come off, Torp tried nothing at all. He seemed to avoid the ball. It's mental that Allen bore the brunt of the criticism on here despite being the player to show for the ball from the centre backs. If Torp doesn't fancy doing that he is plainly not up to it.

Torp was poorer than Allen on Saturday.

At least Allen was in the mix of things.

You would have barley noticed that Torp was playing.

 

[Perennial Lurker]

I wonder what position Kai Andrews will play long term?

He looks like a 8 or a 10 but has the physical attributes to play as a 6

Will be interesting to follow his progression

 

[shmmeee]

Am I right in saying, that's the first time Torp and Allen have been partnered together?

I do think that had a major bearing on things. Neither are great tacklers or ball winners and both seemed a little lost at times on Saturday.

Torp, Rudoni, and Allen in midfield:

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

First 10 games: W5 D5 L0.

Don't try and spin that as a "slow start".

The operative word was relatively.

We were out of the playoffs for more games than we were in the automatics and it was only around Xmas that year we stormed to top spot. Likewise, in 22/23 we spent less time in the playoffs than QPR who finished 20th.

Let’s be honest, the L1 season, not many people believed we’d go up automatically until quite late.

 

[SBAndy]

The operative word was relatively.

We were out of the playoffs for more games than we were in the automatics and it was only around Xmas that year we stormed to top spot. Likewise, in 22/23 we spent less time in the playoffs than QPR who finished 20th.

Let’s be honest, the L1 season, not many people believed we’d go up automatically until quite late.

View attachment 37711

Suppose the caveat to that is at L1 you don’t really get the standout teams that are going to average 2-2.2 points per game from the off.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The operative word was relatively.

We were out of the playoffs for more games than we were in the automatics and it was only around Xmas that year we stormed to top spot. Likewise, in 22/23 we spent less time in the playoffs than QPR who finished 20th.

Let’s be honest, the L1 season, not many people believed we’d go up automatically until quite late.

View attachment 37711

Even that shows the lowest position of 9th. In fact I’d argue it shows the importance of a fast start. It meant we were able to ride the two defeats and keep momentum

 

[skybluecam]

The operative word was relatively.

We were out of the playoffs for more games than we were in the automatics and it was only around Xmas that year we stormed to top spot. Likewise, in 22/23 we spent less time in the playoffs than QPR who finished 20th.

Let’s be honest, the L1 season, not many people believed we’d go up automatically until quite late.

View attachment 37711

But it's not a slow start is it?

It's a very good start, then a regression, then another improvement.

If anything it shows the importance of having that good start, which allows you to go through some poor form mid season and still finish highly. When you start poorly you don't have that opportunity.

 

[Evo1883]

To state the obvious, you want to peak towards the end of the season when the most games are, right?

We’ve started slowly every season (barring season 2 in Championship). Even the year we won League 1, we won our first away game in December (v Wycombe). Particularly when we were rubbish (pre 2011/12), how many times did we win the league by September and tail off?

He's not setting up the team to play better later on in the season that's not how football works .. he has absolutely no control over that .

 

[Evo1883]

First 10 games: W5 D5 L0.

Don't try and spin that as a "slow start".

Yes that's 2 ppg , promotion form

 

[Ccfcisparks]

He's not setting up the team to play better later on in the season that's not how football works .. he has absolutely no control over that .

And what would be the benefit of it? If we were losing at the start I’m not sure it’s part of robins game plan

 

[nicksar]

A good number of these types of things were also written about Sheaf in his first season. While some suggestion that the manager’s instructions are contributing might be taboo on here, they can’t be ignored either.

I mentioned on Saturday that for a period of time in the 2nd half on Saturday Delaney was in the technical area (Robins sitting on bench, Delaney is clearly the assistant manager in all but name).The team had the best of the game during that spell tbh.
Mark Robins has been unbelievable for us for sure but this season is definitely going to be a make or break one for him,the owner has pretty much done everything Mark has asked for.

 

[harvey098]

Jesus, I've heard it all now. We're purposely having bad starts so that we can have better finishes? It's as simple as this... we try and win every league game but sometimes we just don't.

The fact that people are even talking about robins having pressure this season is bizarre to me. We're in a group of about 15 teams that have a chance of going up.. 3 will. If we don't this year then I'd still want Robins to be the one to have another crack next year.

And for the original thread, I think Torp is a good player and will have a decent season.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Jesus, I've heard it all now. We're purposely having bad starts so that we can have better finishes? It's as simple as this... we try and win every league game but sometimes we just don't.

The fact that people are even talking about robins having pressure this season is bizarre to me. We're in a group of about 15 teams that have a chance of going up.. 3 will. If we don't this year then I'd still want Robins to be the one to have another crack next year.

And for the original thread, I think Torp is a good player and will have a decent season.

Of course it’s a big season we’re the 3rd biggest spenders in the league this year and 2nd biggest last season.

top 6 is a bare minimum expectation. He gets a pass the last 2 seasons. 2 years back we had the shit with the ground and wasps, last season he was bedding in a new squad.

this season everything is in place

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

But it's not a slow start is it?

It's a very good start, then a regression, then another improvement.

If anything it shows the importance of having that good start, which allows you to go through some poor form mid season and still finish highly. When you start poorly you don't have that opportunity.

It is, you compare to other seasons and we’d have been out of touch the years where the points tallies were higher.

We strung together a really good run of consecutive wins against teams around us that allowed us to go and win the league. Before that 8-1-0 run we were in playoff contention, not automatic promotion.

Our record before that amazing run was 10-12-3 so over 25 games our PPG was 1.68 which is below the PPG for automatic promotion. Bearing in mind our record was 2 PPG after 10 games, our form dropped off significantly between October and December. So yeah, it’s fair to say it was a slow start.

But it's not a slow start is it?

It's a very good start, then a regression, then another improvement.

If anything it shows the importance of having that good start, which allows you to go through some poor form mid season and still finish highly. When you start poorly you don't have that opportunity.

Let’s revisit the threads from that season and see if people felt that way at the time. I don’t think many people felt that way before we went and won 8 of our last 9 games. Only one team drew more games than us that season.

Also, we lost our 11th and 12th games and I’m sure everyone felt we were on course for automatics when we got battered 4-0 against Rotherham and then 1-0 v Tranmere.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It is, you compare to other seasons and we’d have been out of touch the years where the points tallies were higher.

We strung together a really good run of consecutive wins against teams around us that allowed us to go and win the league. Before that 8-1-0 run we were in playoff contention, not automatic promotion.

Our record before that amazing run was 10-12-3 so over 25 games our PPG was 1.68 which is below the PPG for automatic promotion. Bearing in mind our record was 2 PPG after 10 games, our form dropped off significantly between October and December. So yeah, it’s fair to say it was a slow start.


Let’s revisit the threads from that season and see if people felt that way at the time. I don’t think many people felt that way before we went and won 8 of our last 9 games. Only one team drew more games than us that season.

Also, we lost our 11th and 12th games and I’m sure everyone felt we were on course for automatics when we got battered 4-0 against Rotherham and then 1-0 v Tranmere.

The Rotherham game was the worst we’d played all season - and to this day I don’t know how we lost to Tranmere. We absolutely battered them.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

Problem is we’re giving the league a third of the season head start. It’s all well and good peaking at the end but that just limits us to pushing for the play offs.

Ipswich showed the way last season. Arguably you’re better getting ahead of the league

Further on this, you could argue robins takes a bit longer to get the best out of his players as opposed to setting up that way. Take last year once we changed shape and played more direct we started to fly but it took robins some time to realise it wasn’t working

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He's not setting up the team to play better later on in the season that's not how football works .. he has absolutely no control over that .

I’m assuming you’ve never heard of something called periodisation?

Literally coach in every sport will try to utilise this. In short, it gears the athletes to be physically and mentally at their best at the most important parts of the season.

So no, it isn’t setting them up to ‘play better’ deliberately at later points of the season, it’s about getting the players to be at their best when it most matters. For arguments sake, if the team is at 90%, we’ll be steadily working to get them up to 98-99% by Xmas and again by Easter. It’s not possible to be at that level all season in any sport.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Further on this, you could argue robins takes a bit longer to get the best out of his players as opposed to setting up that way. Take last year once we changed shape and played more direct we started to fly but it took robins some time to realise it wasn’t working

Weirdly I’m sure we’ve changed shape every season under robins