Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
But we’re not in all competitions
But we’re not in all competitionsThe Checkertrade will be the time to experiment. The FA Cup requires a strong side as we need ideally to be in the hat next round.
So same side minus Ogogo replaced by Kelly, with Mason on the bench and Jones on the bench along with Shipley.
If Bayliss is fit someone has to drop out...
Should be too good for Walsall but the FA Cup 'one off's' do produce totally different results to those expected sometimes.
I want 7 undefeated in all competitions!
Halle fuckin luiaHe definitely should put Bakayoko in ahead of clarke Harris as this will test the guys appetite and desire
They might be joining the Walsall fans in hammering him
I'd play something like the following:
GK O'Brien
RB Grimmer
CB Hyam
CB Davies
LB Mason
RM Jones
CM Kelly/Ogogo
CM Andreu (if fit)
LM Hiwula
ST Baka
ST Chaplin
Willis was lucky to even finish the Accrington game, he was running around on one foot by the end of it. Doyle could do with a rest/see how we function with the likes of Kelly or Ogogo in that position. Andreu should be trained for Bayliss back-up, he has the ability, passing range and reads the game well, just doesn't have the pace to play further up the pitch. Besdies, having him on should improve some set pieces.
Not sure Jones is quite ready to start in first team games. The tempo and physicality is much more demanding on a player in comparison to U23 football. Also, Andreu isn't a CM and is completely past it, leave him on the bench until he proves otherwise.
Or some of the players have been blowing out of their arse and it would be a good opportunity to test some others in a competitive game.I don't get this rest players? Isn't it football manger speak for "I haven't dropped him, I am just giving someone else game time." Match fitness can only be obtained by playing so keeping the squad involved is important. A rest is just a rest, you can give them a couple of days off training if it is just a rest. Letting knocks fully recover might be another reason to miss a competitive game.
Completely agree, U23 football is no comparison to first team games, but if he can finish the last few games getting 20-30 mins, no reason why he can't play the first 60 mins, ease up to full fitness. This is the type of game you'd want to trial these things.
I'm interested, what makes you think Andreu is 'completely past it'? Yes he doesn't have pace, but his attributes would much better suit CM in the similar role that Bayliss plays, than where he was playing at the start of the season.
Maybe but it depends if MR wants to take that risk given that JJ isn't 100% fit. Is it worth starting a player just to get minutes when realistically we could a good cup run for January funds? An argument could be made that starting an unfit player could potentially harm our chances of coming away with a win. I'd rather integrate JJ slowly as it'll be a disaster if his injury reoccurs for the sake of a 'trial'. Plus, he's been effective coming off the bench in the final 20 mins of a match since his return so why not use him as a secret weapon for the time being?
Given the severity of Andreu's injury I fear it's taken its toll on both his fitness levels and overall game sharpness. Suffering an ACL when you're knocking on the door of 30 doesn't exactly bode well for any player regardless of their quality due to the simple fact that as you grow older your body doesn't recover as quickly from injury. From what I've seen of Andreu so far this season, he looks way off the mark. His decision making is poor, his passing (which you've claimed as one of his specialities) has been sloppy, and although he never had a great deal of pace to begin with, on the pitch he looks slower than time. We're nearly half way through the season now so I can't accept lack of fitness as an excuse I'm afraid.
His attributes definitely wouldn't suit CM. He doesn't have the legs to play in the centre for a start, he's a forward thinking player who lacks the defensive knowhow to cover his fellow man in the centre or track back and as I've mentioned in this post, judging from previous performances so far this season he simply lacks the quality to play there.
Game time is the best way to get minutes, I guess it all boils down to if MR wants to go for a cup run, or happy to give fringe players some minutes. Given the quality of our fringe players, I would prefer MR to give them game time where we can. Given the form of our starting league team, I'd prefer to not disrupt that and give them minutes at other opportunites.
The trouble was that MR was playing Andreu as a ST early in the season, I think we can both agree that this is not his position. From his combined game time, before his injury included. He absolutely does have a great range of passing. Look at the EFL Analytics post as an example. Yes early season a lot of things didn't come off, but the squad as a whole everything didn't come off. Our progression in recent games is the fact, on the whole MR has stuck with a squad and allowed them to gel. I don't think he will ever have the quality to replace Bayliss, but it is clear to see that when he isn't playing we lose a lot of creativity, and Chaplin has to drop a lot deeper to compensate. Meerly considering our current crop and considering who could fill that void.
Or some of the players have been blowing out of their arse and it would be a good opportunity to test some others in a competitive game.
For example JamesCCFC has stated " leave Andreu on the bench until he proves he is not past it" well that will answer that question by sitting on the bench!
He won’tAs well as resting players, how pissed off will 3k Cov Fans be if they get there and he has put out a Checkatrade style lineup?
Not sure Jones is quite ready to start in first team games. The tempo and physicality is much more demanding on a player in comparison to U23 football. Also, Andreu isn't a CM and is completely past it, leave him on the bench until he proves otherwise.
Andreu is a central midfielder by trade but more recently in his career has been used further forward when the 4231 become the go to formation for most sides. He can play that role.
When he’s played the no 10 role this season or second striker however people see it he had nobody ahead of him making any significant movement to put in. It didn’t work plus the fact he looked rusty too early on, the lack of goals in the side and building negativity around the side 6/7 games in enhanced his poor ratings.
However the stats generated this week show what a asset he could be if utilised in a deeper role with movement of Chaplin, Thomas or JJ for that when fit ahead of him to pick a pass. Every time I’ve seen him this season he’s always looking to receive the ball in a forward thinking way and at times thinking and vision as been fractionally ahead of his static team mates.
There’s no doubting tho it’s a big injury at the wrong end of his career to bounce back to the ability you knew you once had.
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.....and how will he prove anything from the bench? No comprendez !!Andreu isn't a CM and is completely past it, leave him on the bench until he proves otherwise.
.....and how will he prove anything from the bench? No comprendez !!
Ok . Wouldn't pick him until he has some U23 time in his legs (although if MR says ok, then fine by me). As a side note CWR said earlier that Derby have given permission for Thomas to play!! Good news!Leave him out altogether then as long as he stays clear of the Starting XI.
Ok . Wouldn't pick him until he has some U23 time in his legs (although if MR says ok, then fine by me). As a side note CWR said earlier that Derby have given permission for Thomas to play!! Good news!
I'd play something like the following:
GK O'Brien
RB Grimmer
CB Hyam
CB Davies
LB Mason
RM Jones
CM Kelly/Ogogo
CM Andreu (if fit)
LM Hiwula
ST Baka
ST Chaplin
Willis was lucky to even finish the Accrington game, he was running around on one foot by the end of it. Doyle could do with a rest/see how we function with the likes of Kelly or Ogogo in that position. Andreu should be trained for Bayliss back-up, he has the ability, passing range and reads the game well, just doesn't have the pace to play further up the pitch. Besdies, having him on should improve some set pieces.
As a side note CWR said earlier that Derby have given permission for Thomas to play!! Good news!
Is he? I know he was playing CAM at Hamilton Athletic so not sure how early we're talking here. Regardless, if he was pushed further forward into a CAM role surely that puts a question mark over his actual ability to be an effective CM. For instance, Shipley's natural position when he broke through was CM. However, that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be effective there hence why he was pushed to the left. Plus, maybe that's when Andreu actually had the legs? Given his lack of fitness at the minute, putting him in front of the back four would be nothing short of suicidal.
Exactly, which reiterates my point. He only fits into a system that suits him and no one else. So why retain him come January when when he doesn't fit our style of play and probably more crucially for the player, isn't playing consistently?
How does that qualify him to be an asset at CM though? As I previously mentioned there is far more to being a successful CM than possessing the ability to ping the odd half-decent ball or make a killer pass. From what I've seen so far this season Andreu hasn't got the legs or the defensive knowhow to be effective enough if dropped deeper. Not when the only other options are: Ogogo who's currently playing like he's never seen a football before, Doyle who needs someone to do all the attacking work for him so he can last the full 90 and Kelly who isn't 100% fit?
I hope I'm wrong and he does bounce back but I don't see the logic in playing him in positions where he has little or no experience in for the sake of him 'getting some minutes' when he's still struggling with his fitness levels and subsequently will probably suffer come matchday. That's neither helpful for the player nor (and most importantly) the team. Understandably fans are hopeful but I just can't grasp why when we could get someone in equally as good (or better) on the same wage in January?
Yeah at Livingstone and then Hamilton he played in Center mid and later in a more forward role when they changed to a 4231 at the time it became the go to formation for many in the uk.
You suggest he could of been moved forward as he lacked something to play a central role, maybe it was his vision and ability with the ball in a forward thinking way that made the tactical move as the manager at the time wanted to change his teams style and he fitted the role better out of the players in the squad, that’s something we will never know unless it’s asked of him to comment.
It’s quite a assumption you make that he now only fits a 4231 in a 10 and the legs are gone while also lacking the defensive know how when you’ve only seen him play in a attacking sense in the no 10 role or second striker, a role that’s to be creative and feed the wide players, overlapping men or man up front in a side that’s looked static lacking movement we’ve judged him on. Countless times I’ve seen him receive the ball looking for that next pass but nothing was on as nobody had put themselves in a opportunity.
It’s only fair to say it’s also my strong assumption that he still can play and offer something in that central role after the injury he’s had, but to be so strongly dismissive is wrong. Only MR is in that position to see.
To many on here Doyle’s legs are gone too but that depends on the expectations of what you think a player should be doing or asked of by the manager in a certain role. All interpretations in my eyes.
Finally you suggest the possibility of getting someone in January on his wages who could be better, naturally anyone if manager including myself would look to do that and recycle the squad to best use however it’s November and he is under contract on the books and currently is when deemed fit available for selection as the window is closed.
It’s something I’d try in the checkatrade games before casting last judgements on his ccfc career moving forward.
Surely it's an assumption from your camp saying he could play there when, just as I have, you've also only seen him play in an attacking capacity. I'm basing my opinion on facts and what I see so I'm failing to understand what makes you so confident that he could succeed in a deeper position when your only argument is he played there in the Scottish Championship 5 years ago, and before his serious injury I might add?
He obviously has quality I haven't strongly disregarding anything. The stats put forward by the previous poster are there to back it up and from what I've heard during his time at Dundee he was hugely successful going forward. I'm saying it's likely he doesn't have the defensive knowhow to sit in front of the back four. So again, surely it's equally an assumption claiming he does when as you've said, we don't know what qualities he possessed at the time unless we ask the right people? But lets say perhaps I'm right and he doesn't - neither does he have the legs (again from what I've seen so far) to suggest that he could fill Bayliss' shoes of driving the ball forward through the midfield. Bayliss is guilty of puffing wind during the second half due to his style of play so surely it's improbable to ask Andreu to do the same.
Also, how's it an assumption that he only fits into a 4-3-2-1 when firstly we're now playing a 4-4-2 because the former wasn't working. Secondly, we started producing results on a consistent basis once he was dropped and we started using the 4-4-2. You've said it yourself: Countless times I’ve seen him receive the ball looking for that next pass but nothing was on as nobody had put themselves in a opportunity. That's because the majority are uncomfortable with the formation and MR was forced to make a change and subsequently drop Andreu.
Maybe I sound harsh but we're now mid-way through the season and MR hasn't found a use for him in our current set up. Like you said he sees him week in week out yet he hasn't made a league start since the beginning of October. Nor since we switched to a 4-4-2 I believe.
But just because a player is under contact is there sense in playing him when there are others who are available to play? It's clearly dependant on if you consider Walsall a game that is equally as important as a league game or if you see it as an opportunity for fringe players to shine.
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Rest key players where possible
<snip>
As JCH is our only genuine target man, he should definitely be rested
Rest players? They only play 90 minutes, once a week.
And the rest of the week they train for those 90 minutes
I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. And I don't train for it.
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