Wasps bid for Ricoh Arena valued at £30million (3 Viewers)

[Nick]

In terms, however, of SISU always having had the opportunity, it appears not.

*If* (if, I emphasise the if btw for a purpose) they were talking to Wasps years back, before we even moved from the Ricoh, this would be distinctly dubious practice in my eyes as it would appear the whole rehtoric about the Arena being a council asset and thus not for sale would have been... untrue.

Worse, it would not only be untrue, but the actions would actively encourage the football team to bog off (again?).

Then it would also make it look as if the club sort of had valid reasons as they were scared of this Wasps deal. Although you can guess it would be milked wouldn't it?

 

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[rupert_bear]

I don't fear a new landlord at all. Hasn't Fisher stated previously that CCFC will be paying tenants of any sisu sponsored new landlord what is the difference. If sisu ever build this fantasy stadium the football team will pay rent, sisu will pocket the rent money and all extra revenue that might be generated.As for this daft idea of a protest Tuesday what a joke, a fanny full of anoraks boo-hooing a few councillors, get a fuckin' life ffs !

 

[sky blue john]

And if the football team is fucked because of it then who cares? Ha, ha, ha, etc. You are a dick.

I can't see how our club can be any more fucked to be honest !
Thank your buddies at Sisu for that !
You know who they are you supported there franchise arrangement by buying a season ticket at sixfields !!!!

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I don't fear a new landlord at all. Hasn't Fisher stated previously that CCFC will be paying tenants of any sisu sponsored new landlord what is the difference. If sisu ever build this fantasy stadium the football team will pay rent, sisu will pocket the rent money and all extra revenue that might be generated.As for this daft idea of a protest Tuesday what a joke, a fanny full of anoraks boo-hooing a few councillors, get a fuckin' life ffs !

Whats the difference?? You mean apart from the long term viability of CCFC, the FFP implications season on season, the attractiveness/saleability of CCFC as a package......you mean apart from all that....whats the difference?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The only reason the vote to build the Arena was carried, of course, wasn't to save CCFC, it was that investment opportunities it brought to the land, and the commitment to redevelop a neglected area of the city.

Understandable, of course, in a climate where councils are expected by national government to put finance first. But it does also help to explain why the attachment of the council as a whole isn't to Coventry's sporting heritage, more about the short-term financial planning to make things pay.

And, of course, certain councillors decide the club is a sideshow wrt the Arena.

We're seeing loud and clear the mess we've been got in to - only an attractive proposition to investment funds tempted by a gamble, while the ground is seen as part of a property portfolio rather than a sporting centre.

The Coventry charity appears not as keen as hoped to support Coventry causes either. That said, would they have been involved at all had the son of the founder not hooked up with Robinson et. al?

It all adds up to the inevitability of something built on sand sees people fight over the offcuts rather than the carcass itself. The sad thing is, you expect an investment fund to be after the cash above all else... but what kind of society are we moving into when *all* parties seem keen on this as priority?

 

[Nick]

I can't see how our club can be any more fucked to be honest !
Thank your buddies at Sisu for that !
You know who they are you supported there franchise arrangement by buying a season ticket at sixfields !!!!

People who as you say "supported the franchise" got to watch the team they supported play every week, what do people who are supporting the Wasps franchise get out of it? Spite? One up on SISU?

 

[sky blue john]

I don't fear a new landlord at all. Hasn't Fisher stated previously that CCFC will be paying tenants of any sisu sponsored new landlord what is the difference. If sisu ever build this fantasy stadium the football team will pay rent, sisu will pocket the rent money and all extra revenue that might be generated.As for this daft idea of a protest Tuesday what a joke, a fanny full of anoraks boo-hooing a few councillors, get a fuckin' life ffs !

I second that RB especially when nobody knows the deal is and are just speculating !

 

[Warwickhunt]

Can't help thinking SISU got this all wrong...... that the interests of what is best for the club have been subjugated to those of SISU, but dressed up as good for the club.

My understanding is that the club set the time period for the return to the Ricoh. They set it as 4 years in total and then how that was split was negotiated. That means that CCFC wanted a short term deal not a long term deal. I am sure they have their reasons for short term..... building a new stadium for example, although I tend to believe it was intended to somehow pressurise ACL/CCC/AEHC. That indicates to me either they were not aware of the Wasps deal or that the Wasps deal is of no consequence because SISU/CCFC never intended to be at the Ricoh long term (I favour the first part of that - not aware)

They have for the next two to four years parked CCFC at the Ricoh. The better income there will allow them to pay the interest on loans and gives them time. This year it is important to get promoted because they have the funds to back it....... next year could be a whole lot different. The emphasis financially I think is now no more loans pay the interest and see what that leaves us. The club can bump along and the plan was it could enable pressure for a deal on ownership - except the Wasps deal has totally relieved any pressure on ACL and left SISU out in the cold for now.

Wishful thinking perhaps but I hope that Waggott and Fisher see the potential in negotiating with Wasps once as is likely the takeover happens. Put the club not SISU first. Secure a long term improved deal at the Ricoh and give the club and fans some stability. Other than building a stadium they cant afford and wont have the capacity to bring in similar revenues what are their choices?

OSB i cannot help feeling a bit figity that SISU have kept stum about this event, do you think they may have some kind of involvement somewhere along the lines?

 

[rupert_bear]

Whats the difference?? You mean apart from the long term viability of CCFC, the FFP implications season on season, the attractiveness/saleability of CCFC as a package......you mean apart from all that....whats the difference?

Well I think it makes a sale of the football club more of a possibility as for this FFP how does it work, please explain because I don't think anyone really knows. Do you really think that if the Ricoh was in the clubs owners (sisu) hands things will be honk-dorrey because I don't. The further they keep Sepalla and co from the reins of the Ricoh the better.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I don't think they do. Was the share deal not an arrangement between Higgs and CCFC LTD (In process of Liquidation)??

The new CCFC entity is now Otium not SISU.


EDIT: as per Simon G post:

The first option clause may still exist if it was passed to Otium as an asset from CCFC.

This will be interesting to know if it has.

my understanding is that the option still exists in theory. It was granted to CCFC Ltd. SBS&L seem to have included it in their balance sheet at a value of £1m and lay claim to it. It has since been written down to nil value by SBS&L. Interestingly the £1m was paid out but it was never paid to AEHC :thinking about:

However I do not think that the option can be transferred without the AEHC permission. No permission has been granted. So not sure how Otium or SBS&L can lay claim to it

As I see it the option contract between CCFC Ltd and AEHC does not die until CCFC Ltd has been liquidated. It hasn't been yet and CCFC Ltd still forms part of the SBS&L Group.

In the meantime argument about who has rights to the option could be taken to court, take time, get very expensive etc. if sale was made directly to Wasps consortium or anyone else without offering to CCFC/SISU first.

Therefore CCC buying the shares by using the share agreement they have always had with AEHC circumvents the option because under the option terms and share agreement CCC are allowed to do this. It is also something that SISU should always have been aware of because it pre dates their arrival. Clearly SISU knew all about the option, its terms and valued it otherwise how did it appear in the audited accounts of SBS&L for 2008

 

[torchomatic]

You're supporting a franchising of Wasps. At least I was supporting my own team not one from London.

You know who they are you supported there franchise arrangement by buying a season ticket at sixfields !!!!

 

[oldskyblue58]

OSB i cannot help feeling a bit figity that SISU have kept stum about this event, do you think they may have some kind of involvement somewhere along the lines?

They could in theory but as far as I know they haven't so I do not think so. This turn of events appears to have taken them by surprise. Even if they were involved as an investor in the consortium would they be in control of it? - very unlikely

 

[chiefdave]

I know the CET polls aren't the most scientific things but have you all been hitting the wrong button? It's currently 86% in favour of Wasps moving to Cov.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I know the CET polls aren't the most scientific things but have you all been hitting the wrong button? It's currently 86% in favour of Wasps moving to Cov.

Meh, back in the day Geoffrey Robinson was briefly idolised by the fans, because I had such a tedious day at work I decided to prove a point and vote for him as best possible owner for the club.

Sure they've closed that loophole since, mind you

 

[Nick]

I know the CET polls aren't the most scientific things but have you all been hitting the wrong button? It's currently 86% in favour of Wasps moving to Cov.

Read some of the comments

 

[sky blue john]

You're supporting a franchising of Wasps. At least I was supporting my own team not one from London.

Lol !!
I have no interest in wasps what so ever how is this supporting a franchise ?

 

[stupot07]

If SISU/CCFC & Wasps negotiated a deal that provided long term security ie a long lease and gave better access to income streams, or provided opportunities to create their own at the Ricoh is that better or worse for CCFC?

Heart still doesn't like this (franchise club, not anchor tenant etc) but head says there are opportunities to improve things for CCFC that could be there - that's not saying that will happen though

One way you could look at it is to focus simply on CCFC (not Wasps, SISU, ACL, CCC AEHC) ........ if CCFC ended up with a long term lease with better access to the income streams it brings in (including share of naming rights, sponsorship and advertising) is CCFC better off with that or what they have now ? or even better off than with bearing the costs of a new build?

We don't know what is on offer if anything - that's the problem

If this was just some finance group buying ACL that wasn't bringing another sports franchise then would there be half the furore going on? It would just be a change of landlord wouldn't it?

To be fair these so called football/sports experts had differing views of the impact of administration. I'm sure another expert would have a differing view on this.

I can't see given we'll have much bigger crowds than wasps, what they will again in giving away income streams to us, they will need all the income they can get - don't forget F&B's only makes £100k profit, it's small fry.


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[Jack Griffin]

I seem to remember sisu tried to buy a half share in ACL.
Higgs should receive some £5m and sisu would buy out and discharge the mortgage from YB - then at £15m.
So a deal proposed value at £20m for 50% of ACL.

It didn't work out for a number of reasons.

CCC and Higgs are now ready to accept a deal valued at £30m for 90% of ACL.
Is it a better deal?

Yeah, but ISTR that deal is wasn't really like you describe.

The £14M loan, that was to be renegotiated down massively by SISU, but YB wouldn't budge as much as that, they wanted to reschedule the full sum on a longer term.

and the offer to AEH was £2M up front & the rest over a number of years, without adequate security built in if repayments became a problem.

Neither AEH or YB wanted it, it was a dead duck..

 

[stupot07]

Lol !!
I have no interest in wasps what so ever how is this supporting a franchise ?

Do you think it's wrong for wasps to move to Coventry?


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[Sky Blue Dal]

My heart bleeds for Sisu what goes around comes around is the saying !

John.. come on calm down. After reading OSB58 post this is worrying.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, but ISTR that deal is wasn't really like you describe.

The £14M loan, that was to be renegotiated down massively by SISU, but YB wouldn't budge as much as that, they wanted to reschedule the full sum on a longer term.

and the offer to AEH was £2M up front & the rest over a number of years, without adequate security built in if repayments became a problem.

Neither AEH or YB wanted it, it was a dead duck..

Surely it doesn't matter what sisu did with the loan?

 

[Warwickhunt]

If you are quoting that IF it was 7 million being handed over for 90% would make SISU look like mugs, it doesn't really as it means they weren't far off if they were to pay 2 million up front for Higgs and would have been majorly over paying if they paid 5.5 million.

However, if it IS only 7 million being paid they should get to the bank to ask for a loan

What did the Judge say in his summation regarding the value?

 

[oldskyblue58]

To be fair these so called football/sports experts had differing views of the impact of administration. I'm sure another expert would have a differing view on this.

I can't see given we'll have much bigger crowds than wasps, what they will again in giving away income streams to us, they will need all the income they can get - don't forget F&B's only makes £100k profit, it's small fry.


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I agree opinions differ but there are options that could work for CCFC at the Ricoh long term and work for Wasps

Not saying wasps give away income streams - they would negotiate the rights for a price - that could be a one off up front payment, an increase in rent, leased or an amended profit share for example. There are income sources CCFC could promote without Wasps. If CCFC decide to leave after 2 years then the price of advertising comes down at the Ricoh as less people to see so they negotiate better shares of that. None of that though means CCFC has to own the freehold or ACL

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

my understanding is that the option still exists in theory. It was granted to CCFC Ltd. SBS&L seem to have included it in their balance sheet at a value of £1m and lay claim to it. It has since been written down to nil value by SBS&L. Interestingly the £1m was paid out but it was never paid to AEHC :thinking about:

However I do not think that the option can be transferred without the AEHC permission. No permission has been granted. So not sure how Otium or SBS&L can lay claim to it

As I see it the option contract between CCFC Ltd and AEHC does not die until CCFC Ltd has been liquidated. It hasn't been yet and CCFC Ltd still forms part of the SBS&L Group.

In the meantime argument about who has rights to the option could be taken to court, take time, get very expensive etc. if sale was made directly to Wasps consortium or anyone else without offering to CCFC/SISU first.

Therefore CCC buying the shares by using the share agreement they have always had with AEHC circumvents the option because under the option terms and share agreement CCC are allowed to do this. It is also something that SISU should always have been aware of because it pre dates their arrival. Clearly SISU knew all about the option, its terms and valued it otherwise how did it appear in the audited accounts of SBS&L for 2008

Cheers for the heads up!!