Wasps current finances & hope (11 Viewers)

[oldskyblue58]

Certainly not good news. continued losses but there are positive things they can point to. I am not going to analyse in great detail, just general points

- turnover is up compared to the first 6 months of the previous financial year by 400k. remains on course to match the previous year based on figures to 31/12/18
- cost of sales continues to increase mainly due to wage cost pressures and an increase in food & drink costs. Could exceed the 2018 accounts figure. Wage costs are a major concern for all clubs
- admin costs seem to be on course to be less than the full year to 30/06/2018
- no exceptional costs this time but there is an exceptional profit of 97k
- the new deal seems to have dropped the profit share element due to Compass or Delaware by 0.5m
- Loss 4.9m cannot be described as good or positive
- this is a period of restructuring due to the switch from Compass to Delaware so things may be set to improve under the new arrangement time will tell
- the Wasps performance on the pitch is going to damage any improvement
- fixed assets pretty much the same as at 30/06/2018 but revaluation of lease due this month
- Current assets are down 1.5m so overall total assets are down 1.4m compared to 30/06/2018
- They have had to pay off the Compass deal in this period by buying it out £6.8m that has been written off against reserves (not P&L acc). It wont reoccur
- loans in total are actually down by 470k compared to 30/06/2018
- current liabilities are down from 21m 30/06/2018 to 15.8m 31/12/2018 it is the inability to pay current liabilities that causes many insolvencies
- there are some big movements in respect of deferred income and i assume that's to do with the delaware deal
- despite all this the group is 1.4m cash flow positive in the period after buying out compass and spending 1.2m on assets
- the amount owed to richardson has actually gone down since 30/06/2018
- total liabilities are now £10m more than total assets
- these are not audited accounts
- the deal for CVC gets paid out since these figures and will be included in the year end accounts

 

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[Joy Division]

It does say "attendance" not "sales"

I don't mean sales, I mean the attendances that they publish.

 

[CCFC54321]

Why don’t they simply put down they have 33,000 every week and get the bullshit over and done with.

We all know the fabricated 19,000 gates are made up with free tickets plus free children. It’s simply trying to keep face and not publish the gates are dipping.

I’m sure the auditors will want them to declare ‘Paying customers’?

 

[chiefdave]

Why don’t they simply put down they have 33,000 every week and get the bullshit over and done with.

We all know the fabricated 19,000 gates are made up with free tickets plus free children. It’s simply trying to keep face and not publish the gates are dipping.

I’m sure the auditors will want them to declare ‘Paying customers’?

Maybe HMRC should ask for the VAT on ticket sales for the claimed attendance.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Why don’t they simply put down they have 33,000 every week and get the bullshit over and done with.

We all know the fabricated 19,000 gates are made up with free tickets plus free children. It’s simply trying to keep face and not publish the gates are dipping.

I’m sure the auditors will want them to declare ‘Paying customers’?

actually the auditors wouldn't there is no statutory requirement to do so for the accounts. So long as the strategic report refers to attendance (which the records back up) then that's all that is required by the auditors, and only then because the directors refer to it in the first place.

The paying customers would of course have to be all reflected in the accounting records

 

[fernandopartridge]

I said ages ago that the pre Christmas bumper crowd was for a specific purpose. It's to inflate the half year average gate.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Interesting that the risk mitigation for the Arena and IEC is long term contracts. It doesn't really fit with the unwillingness to talk to CCFC does it?

Costs still going up despite the clear cost cutting measures.

Richardson put another £4.4m in 2018

 

[fernandopartridge]

Lol, his favourite football team must be Leeds United

Accounts are one thing but in my experience a better indicator is what the club is signalling in terms of its activities. To that end we have a new training facility in the pipeline, we continue to sign high end players and we are investing in and around the stadium. For me, financially, there are more good signs than bad. I wouldn't get hung up on the accounts.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Lol, his favourite football team must be Leeds United

Yeah, the training facilities which still hasn't got as far as a planning application as far as I know?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah, the training facilities which still hasn't got as far as a planning application as far as I know?

That's the one. The application was being finalised according to the CT on 10th December 2018. It must be with the same architects practice as the one Tim Fisher commissioned.

 

[crowsnest]

Planning confirmed for 2 more years at Broadstreet. That should go down well with the players.

 

[Nick]

Planning confirmed for 2 more years at Broadstreet. That should go down well with the players.

Their new training ground is going to be next to our new stadium.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I don’t know why anybody would be surprised. They can’t afford to build anything.

 

[chiefdave]

Planning confirmed for 2 more years at Broadstreet. That should go down well with the players.

But on the Wasps forum they claim there can't be any issues at Wasps as they're about to move in to their new state of the art training ground ompus:

 

[Nick]

But on the Wasps forum they claim there can't be any issues at Wasps as they're about to move in to their new state of the art training ground ompus:

It is quite funny, I bet if they were asked about the Higgs Training Centre they would have absolutely no idea about any of it.

 

[Liquid Gold]

But on the Wasps forum they claim there can't be any issues at Wasps as they're about to move in to their new state of the art training ground ompus:

I'm sure it's sisu's fault somehow.

I wonder what the makeup of that forum is. When they moved here do you think their nice quiet rugby forum was invaded by people raving about sisu all of a sudden.

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is the application form: https://planningportal.rugby.gov.uk...ns/R19-0415/ApplicationFormNoPersonalData.pdf

States they have had pre-discussions with Warwick District Council over the Leamington site and will submit the application later this year.

I think this might actually happen tbh, suspect the windfall from CVC will be used and that the new training ground will be combined with the Ricoh to try and secure the next bond.

 

[Liquid Gold]

This is the application form: https://planningportal.rugby.gov.uk/fastweb_upload/Planning Scanned Applications/R19-0415/ApplicationFormNoPersonalData.pdf

States they have had pre-discussions with Warwick District Council over the Leamington site and will submit the application later this year.

I think this might actually happen tbh, suspect the windfall from CVC will be used and that the new training ground will be combined with the Ricoh to try and secure the next bond.

If they use the CVC money for a training site then none of their debt will go. By the time the bond is due for repayment they'll already be over £80m in debt.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If they use the CVC money for a training site then none of their debt will go. By the time the bond is due for repayment they'll already be over £80m in debt.

Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!

 

[Liquid Gold]

Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!

If they keep making losses though there is going to become a point where cash flow becomes a problem. The debt might be secured but it's estimated up to half of Richardson personal money is invested into them, he can't fund losses forever.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!

Valuing the Ricoh at £70m with a shitty rugby team as the only regular attraction. Makes sense

 

[Captain Dart]

If they use the CVC money for a training site then none of their debt will go. By the time the bond is due for repayment they'll already be over £80m in debt.

There are conditions to the CVC money.. so the development makes sense for them.

The clubs voted unanimously to accept the new deal, however, with the funds raised earmarked for developing facilities and stadiums and expanding the competition into new markets rather than paying increasing players' wages.

Premiership rugby agrees to sell minority stake to CVC Capital Partners | Daily Mail Online

 

[Liquid Gold]

There are conditions to the CVC money.. so the development makes sense for them.

Premiership rugby agrees to sell minority stake to CVC Capital Partners | Daily Mail Online

They've been encouraged to use it for development but there is no requirement to.

 

[Captain Dart]

They've been encouraged to use it for development but there is no requirement to.

For heavens sake man, they clearly want a training facillity to stop player drain due to shitty Broad St porta kabins & have chosen to spend the dosh on Leamington.
Why are you chucking out spurious diversions when it is bloody obvious what they're doing, I'm not supporting them I'm merely pointing out my conclusion about their strategy, I believe I'm correct on this one.

 

[Liquid Gold]

For heavens sake man, they clearly want a training facillity to stop player drain due to shitty Broad St porta kabins & have chosen to spend the dosh on Leamington.
Why are you chucking out spurious diversions when it is bloody obvious what they're doing, I'm not supporting them I'm merely pointing out my conclusion about their strategy, I believe I'm correct on this one.

You may well be correct, I'm just pointing out that they don't have to do that which is what you implied. Not difficult to grasp.

 

[Captain Dart]

You may well be correct, I'm just pointing out that they don't have to do that which is what you implied. Not difficult to grasp.

and irrelevant.

 

[Liquid Gold]

and irrelevant.

Of course it’s relevant. If they have to spend it on infrastructure then they will. If they don’t they may well chose to spend to servicing debt. Again, not difficult.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

For heavens sake man, they clearly want a training facillity to stop player drain due to shitty Broad St porta kabins & have chosen to spend the dosh on Leamington.
Why are you chucking out spurious diversions when it is bloody obvious what they're doing, I'm not supporting them I'm merely pointing out my conclusion about their strategy, I believe I'm correct on this one.

So much for being Coventry Wasps.

 

[MusicDating]

Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!

Yup and they'll refinance the bonds (someone with knowledge in this area can helpfully explain what this entails?) which they can do from next month it seems...

"a spokesperson for the Wasps Group said: ‘As we have always said since launching the retail bond in May 2015, one of our options would be to re-finance the bond, which we are entitled to do any time between May 2019 and May 2022."
You want it back when......? Wasps likely to refinance 6.5% bond due 2022 - Retail Bond Expert

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yup and they'll refinance the bonds (someone with knowledge in this area can helpfully explain what this entails?) which they can do from next month it seems...

"a spokesperson for the Wasps Group said: ‘As we have always said since launching the retail bond in May 2015, one of our options would be to re-finance the bond, which we are entitled to do any time between May 2019 and May 2022."
You want it back when......? Wasps likely to refinance 6.5% bond due 2022 - Retail Bond Expert

I don't think they'll do it yet tbh, no idea what they'll have to offer interest rate wise based on the current abysmal financial performance.

That said, I do wonder whether Richardson or one of his companies is a significant bondholder

 

[Liquid Gold]

I think they will refinance and delay the pain but problems look inevitable to me.

 

[vow]

Coventry Wasps.

Please, never utter them two words in the same sentence again ever!!
Thank you.

 

[CanadianCCFC]

Please, never utter them two words in the same sentence again ever!!
Thank you.

Until wasps go down this season and play against Coventry next season. Coventry vs Wasps. Wasps vs Coventry. It works fine.

 

[Grendel]

I don't think they'll do it yet tbh, no idea what they'll have to offer interest rate wise based on the current abysmal financial performance.

That said, I do wonder whether Richardson or one of his companies is a significant bondholder

I’m sure they are

 

[chiefdave]

Until wasps go down this season and play against Coventry next season. Coventry vs Wasps. Wasps vs Coventry. It works fine.

Coventry beat Wasps, Wasps lose to Coventry. That works even better.